Justin Adams Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.99 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2019 If you sat across from God at chess. Why and how would He win every time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned by Grace Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 350 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 I too believe in.... PREDESTINATION BEING APPOINTED FOREKNEW GOD'S ELECT GODS REMNANT GODS "FEW" All words synonamous with each other having the same meaning. Together all these words are mentioned 347 times in the bible in this "CONTEXT". Maybe God is trying to tell us something - Maybe we should listen??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPassingThru Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,979 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,112 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 Look at it like this, if you knew the winning numbers on the next gadzillion dollar Loto, ...would you chose a wrong number? For many are called, but few chosen. Matt 22:14 For ALL are given the invitation, but very few accept and actually come. Paraphrase Lord bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,896 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,826 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 8, 2019 53 minutes ago, Sonshine☀️ said: Greetings! Yes, I believe in predestination. When a predestined person hears Jesus calling, he will choose right then and there to accept Jesus as his Savior. Freely of his own will, he comes to Jesus. He may not even know why, but he will come running into the arms of His Savior. ....and the reason is because he was predestined to do just that. You see, God already knew he would respond to the call because He had already predestined him to be conformed to the image of Christ. God knew he would choose Jesus. Whosoever will come—whosoever responds to the call of God has already been chosen before the creation of the world, and it is God who provides the faith. It is God who works in us to will and to do for His great pleasure. Shine on! Sigh. So why doesn't God just predestine everyone to salvation...? It's an evergreen debate. Yes, God is sovereign...does whatever He wants...but the above explanation is flawed in that it leaves God open to the claim that He has unfairly predestined some to eternal damnation who would otherwise have been saved by hearing the Word of God in faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned by Grace Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 350 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Sigh. So why doesn't God just predestine everyone to salvation...? It's an evergreen debate. Yes, God is sovereign...does whatever He wants...but the above explanation is flawed in that it leaves God open to the claim that He has unfairly predestined some to eternal damnation who would otherwise have been saved by hearing the Word of God in faith. God does allow us free will, but has always known what our choice will be - Pretty cool. He doesn't condemn anyone to hell, because in 2nd Peter 3:9, "The lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.". Edited October 8, 2019 by Seasoned by Grace 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,896 Content Per Day: 3.26 Reputation: 4,826 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, Seasoned by Grace said: God does allow us free will, but has always known what our choice will be - Pretty cool. He doesn't condemn anyone to hell, because in 2nd Peter 3:9, "The lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.". Yes. The deafness and hardening that some sinners are given over to by God is because of their stubborness, but God is not the cause of their sinfulness or their stubborness. God doesn't condemn anyone to hell prior to Judgment Day, but always knows who will be condemned and who will be saved. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJay Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 There's a novel from 1824 by James Hogg that criticizes predestination, called The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner. It's a wild ride -- features a Calvinist serial killer. Check it out if you read books, and like bizarre tales. Anyway, I've seen a ton of fighting over this in the past... My own, purely anecdotal observations are: - People who believe in predestination don't seem to treat it like an excuse to not witness. - People who believe in predestination also seem to want to live the life they're chosen into, not make excuses to keep living the life they left behind (i.e., they don't seem to think of their "predestined" status as a reason to excuse sin, but a reason to pursue purity. - People who don't believe in predestination still seem to appreciate their identity in Christ as His chosen children -- it doesn't seem to cheapen their perspective of God's relationship with them. I think (but I expect someone may have experiences otherwise) that this is kind of a "cosmetic" issue... Where people come down on it doesn't really seem to impact how they actually live as Christians. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 949 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,522 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Seems to me there is no way to dance around the very clear declarations within Romans 9. (Romans 9 through 11 being God's sovereign plan for all of Israel, as He has predestined from before the beginning.) God's Sovereign Choice I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.” Israel's Unbelief What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Predestination is more than God looking through the corridors of time and seeing who would choose him. Predestination is always God actively decreeing a blessing for his people that he chose. It is his own well laid out plan. Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, It is a blessing to believe. To have the Holy Spirit open our understanding and then we receive the free gift of life. Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him, Many will hear and reject the Gospel. They will harden their hearts towards the Spirit. They give God glory in being examples of his great patience and mercy even though they will never receive him. Rom 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 1Pe 2:8 and, "A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. Anyone outside of Christ is destined for eternal destruction. The offer to be saved is very genuine, but God in his own Sovereignty has a place and position already for the devil and his angels and all who are wicked and reject Christ. What’s interesting is that it is never taught that the lost are predestined as if God fashioned them to perish from eternity. That is a word reserved for those that believe. Those that are lost are lost due to their own disbelief. 2Th 2:10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 2Th 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 2Th 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. This is why I personally reject double predestination. Predestination is always in reference to the saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravindran Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Michael37 said: Sigh. So why doesn't God just predestine everyone to salvation...? It's an evergreen debate. Yes, God is sovereign...does whatever He wants...but the above explanation is flawed in that it leaves God open to the claim that He has unfairly predestined some to eternal damnation who would otherwise have been saved by hearing the Word of God in faith. John Piper (a well know Calvinist) has a nice booklet on this topic. I just want to quote him from the book. I have also put a link for the book. You may not agree to this. But I do want to answer the question from Reformed perspective. The difference between the Reformed and the Arminians lies not in whether there are two wills in God, but in what they say this higher commitment is. What does God will more than saving all? The answer the Arminians give is that human self-determination and the possible resulting love relationship with God are more valuable than saving all people by sovereign, efficacious grace. The answer the Reformed give is that the greater value is the manifestation of the full range of God’s glory in wrath and mercy (Rom. 9:22–23) and the humbling of man so that he enjoys giving all credit to God for his salvation (1 Cor. 1:29). https://document.desiringgod.org/does-god-desire-all-to-be-saved-en.pdf?ts=1446647103 Personally, I had a debate in my mind on this. I studied and studied on this. All scripture pointed to predestination and Reformed view. Plain understanding of most of the scriptures will lead to Reformed view. Arminians will have to give a complicated explanation to support their view. Below is a link to 10 such scriptures and how Calvinists and Arminians interpret this. Ultimately this question led me to Reformed view. When we go to heaven, let's say Jesus asks us this - "Why did you believe Me?" Am I going to say "Your Grace Lord" or "I chose to follow you". That my friend was my answer to this debate! https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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