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Do you believe in Predestination?


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7 hours ago, GreyJay said:

There's a novel from 1824 by James Hogg that criticizes predestination, called The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner. It's a wild ride -- features a Calvinist serial killer. Check it out if you read books, and like bizarre tales.

Anyway, I've seen a ton of fighting over this in the past...

My own, purely anecdotal observations are:

- People who believe in predestination don't seem to treat it like an excuse to not witness.

- People who believe in predestination also seem to want to live the life they're chosen into, not make excuses to keep living the life they left behind (i.e., they don't seem to think of their "predestined" status as a reason to excuse sin, but a reason to pursue purity.

- People who don't believe in predestination still seem to appreciate their identity in Christ as His chosen children -- it doesn't seem to cheapen their perspective of God's relationship with them.

I think (but I expect someone may have experiences otherwise) that this is kind of a "cosmetic" issue...

Where people come down on it doesn't really seem to impact how they actually live as Christians.

GreyJay

I like your anecdotal observations :thumbsup:.

Maybe it would help to hear why one of us here believe in predestination and how it affects our life and how we live from that perspective.

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For me, none of the churches I ever attended believed in "Predestination" and yes as you shared, it can be a pretty devisive topic, which in itself is a sin, as above all else here on earth we are to "LOVE" our brothers and sisters, because that's how we are known by God and those around us. Many churches have real problems with Godly love in any form.

Even though the churches I attended didn't believe in predestination in any form, In my personal bible studies and research I started finding other words synanomous  to predestination which in context mean the same.

I found 347 verses that speak od predestination, destined, ordained, appointed, foreknew, chosen, called, called out, God's elect, God's remnant, and the few.

Because over a period of time I noticed that there were things done and taught in all the churches I attended that were not in harmony with God's word, that bothered me.

The things I saw and heard continued and made me question if I had made a mistake not only in the church I was attending, but I started to question one doctrine after another, and their beliefs woven into their faith.

After 4 years of study on just this one topic, it was clear to me that no matter what churches taught or believed, the doctrine of predestination was true and very clear. Absolutely no doubt or confusion on that topic for me.

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The affect it has on me to be predestined, causes me to continually focus on my personal growth as a representative of Christ, not only encourages me, but gives me a new piece of information to give people who I'm witnessing to. I can tell them that my being in their life could be a calling on their heart to claim Jesus as their savior, because from the beginning of time, and maybe before, God had chosen them to be His own, if they were to choose Him as their own. Personally chosen by God - the creator of all we see and even don't see.

I would have loved to hear someone say that to me before I became a believer. For me that's a real heart grabber to know I was in God's heart and He wanted me to be His own. I love knowing that now, and that it gives me the courage to speak up for Him, even when faced with being criticized or persecuted.

I could say more but I think this is sufficient for the time being.

In Christ's heart with much love - Dave

Edited by Seasoned by Grace
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I believe that all companies of believers from the beginning are predestined--more pointedly in this Church age, not due to a greater importance, but because of the sharp point.

I am in awe of God's Plan and I can only guess at most of it.

To answer the question from above: it has never occurred to me to relax because He chose me to be 'In Christ'.

I have relaxed and fallen short and even tried to run from God one season, but that was not the reason. Incidentally, that time when I tried to run from Him? He showed Himself to me in such love and grace, that it floored me. That was one of those milestones.

His purpose and His calling can not be thwarted...He is indeed sovereign.

Edited by Alive
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I do not believe predestination and free will can exist in the same world.   So no I do not believe in predestination for us.

However after studying "M" String Physics in or about 2005 I do have an understanding of God's pre knowledge.    We are not destined to have a barbeque sandwich next Thursday for Lunch, but God (not being tied to our time and space dimension) can see into the future to see what we will decide to have on that day....

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2 minutes ago, other one said:

I do not believe predestination and free will can exist in the same world.   So no I do not believe in predestination for us.

However after studying "M" String Physics in or about 2005 I do have an understanding of God's pre knowledge.    We are not destined to have a barbeque sandwich next Thursday for Lunch, but God (not being tied to our time and space dimension) can see into the future to see what we will decide to have on that day....

I will relate my 'salvation experience' for your thoughtfulness as it relates to the subject.

I am the way, the truth and the life and none can come to the Father but by me.

That is the first scripture I heard resound in my heart. I was 18 years old and a seeker. I was studying eastern religions and such things. One day while standing outside waiting for a ride, I found myself looking up to heaven and crying out--"God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with truth".

A couple minutes later a guy I knew from our HS came walking down the sidewalk toward me. He invited me over the next night to play guitars and sing songs. I did to find out it was a bible study--a bunch of Jesus Freaks. LOL

John was my friend's name--he read the above scripture and I heard the Lord speak to me as audible and clear as can be--"I am the Truth".

At that moment, I believed. He put the faith into me. My will was not involved.

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1 hour ago, Alive said:

I will relate my 'salvation experience' for your thoughtfulness as it relates to the subject.

I am the way, the truth and the life and none can come to the Father but by me.

That is the first scripture I heard resound in my heart. I was 18 years old and a seeker. I was studying eastern religions and such things. One day while standing outside waiting for a ride, I found myself looking up to heaven and crying out--"God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with truth".

A couple minutes later a guy I knew from our HS came walking down the sidewalk toward me. He invited me over the next night to play guitars and sing songs. I did to find out it was a bible study--a bunch of Jesus Freaks. LOL

John was my friend's name--he read the above scripture and I heard the Lord speak to me as audible and clear as can be--"I am the Truth".

At that moment, I believed. He put the faith into me. My will was not involved.

he did not force you to go there....   and he did not force you to accept that he is the truth....    he proposed it to you and you yourself made the decision not to say no....    He made the offer, but you by yourself had to say yes.

And I do know several that have said no....    Same story as you are saying but they said no even though they said they felt drawn to it....     and that I just don't understand...    but it is up to us.

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9 minutes ago, other one said:

he did not force you to go there....   and he did not force you to accept that he is the truth....    he proposed it to you and you yourself made the decision not to say no....    He made the offer, but you by yourself had to say yes.

And I do know several that have said no....    Same story as you are saying but they said no even though they said they felt drawn to it....     and that I just don't understand...    but it is up to us.

My friend, you weren’t there. My will had nothing to do in that moment.

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9 minutes ago, Alive said:

My friend, you weren’t there. My will had nothing to do in that moment.

if I believe that Alive, then I also have to believe that he predestines some people to go to hell.....    I can not accept that and still consider God to be a just and loving being...   I simply can not go there...

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12 minutes ago, other one said:

if I believe that Alive, then I also have to believe that he predestines some people to go to hell.....    I can not accept that and still consider God to be a just and loving being...   I simply can not go there...

That side of the coin and a discussion of such, is a big discussion.

I think differently on the issue than some do.

Predestination is taught from Genesis all the way to the last chapter. God has chosen men, women and nations.

I ask my question from a thread I started. Did Lazarus have a choice?

That is precisely what happened to me!

:-)

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1 Corinthians 13:4-8a

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  Love never fails.

God, being the purest form of love, does not force Himself on anyone, but reveals Himself to all so they may decide to accept Him for Who He is or reject Him.  Without choice, all you have is puppets who cannot love as love is meant to be.  If God only created one group to salvation and another for damnation, where is the love?  Where is the choice?  Why not just create only the number of humans He is said to choose and dispense with all life's trials and tribulations?  What then is the purpose of life if we are not given the opportunity to chose for ourselves whom we will follow?

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19 minutes ago, OneLight said:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8a

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  Love never fails.

God, being the purest form of love, does not force Himself on anyone, but reveals Himself to all so they may decide to accept Him for Who He is or reject Him.  Without choice, all you have is puppets who cannot love as love is meant to be.  If God only created one group to salvation and another for damnation, where is the love?  Where is the choice?  Why not just create only the number of humans He is said to choose and dispense with all life's trials and tribulations?  What then is the purpose of life if we are not given the opportunity to chose for ourselves whom we will follow?

There are many 'choices' after conversion--aren't there?

Can the pot say to the potter....?

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me adraws him; and I will braise him up on the last day.

 

Acts 16:19   But iwhen her owners saw that their hope of gain was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and jdragged them into the marketplace before the rulers.

Rom. 8:29 For those whom He aforeknew, He also bpredestined to become cconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the dfirstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He apredestined, He also bcalled; and these whom He called, He also cjustified; and these whom He justified, He also dglorified.

 

Eph. 1:5 1He apredestined us to badoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, caccording to the 2kind intention of His will,

 

Eph. 1:11 1also we 2ahave obtained an inheritance, having been bpredestined caccording to His purpose who works all things dafter the counsel of His will,

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