Alive Posted October 20, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.58 Reputation: 9,010 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) choir loft said: Calvin was an anti-semite who hated anything that smelled of Jew or Jew law. The same is true for most Protestants today. This is absolutely false. I very much wish you would stop saying this. You are spreading hate and dissension, but continually stating such obvious lies. Edited October 20, 2019 by Alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted October 20, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted October 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, choir loft said: The answer to the question may be found in THE LAW as given by God to Moses. John Calvin, who formulated the doctrine of predestination, had no regard for the LAW except his own. Calvin was an anti-semite who hated anything that smelled of Jew or Jew law. The same is true for most Protestants today. Apart from the LAW there can be no salvation or CHOICE to obtain life or death from God. Calvin would rob people of that choice by falsely claiming through devious means that only certain people would be saved and certain people would not. The logical flaw in this is your typical dead baby. No Calvinist would dare tell the grieving mother of a dead baby that her child is going to hell. There is no aspect of their logic that permits it. Instead there is a great deal of obfuscation, smoke and mirrors used to dazzle people into accepting their false thinking. In the end they don't have a satisfying answer for grieving parents. The LAW is quite certain and logical, however. No one can be condemned if they haven't broken the LAW. Please tell me which dead baby is guilty of stealing, taking the Lord's Name in vain, or murder or adultery? Which commandment does a dead baby break? The answer is none and therefore the child is justified as being righteous BY THE LAW. It has nothing to do with restrictions upon choice and everything to do with obedience to the LAW. This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live - Deuteronomy 30:19 Because Calvinists are essentially anti-semitic in their doctrine they ignored the LAW and endlessly debate points of theoretical logic - always in their favor by the way. They seem to have a problem with the Holy Spirit too, but that's another stressful issue on their part. The Holy Spirit always operates in the region of choice and generous revelation. It is time for You to act, O LORD, For they have regarded Your law as void. - Psalms 119:126 that's me, hollering from the choir loft..... Where did you read that Calvin hated the Jews ? Can you give us proof for all you’re claiming to be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted October 20, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 20, 2019 Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers" and Calvin and Luther. Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.) – Epistle to the Magnesians For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor…it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity. "Epistle of Barnabas" Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.) Take heed to yourselves and be not like some piling up you sins and saying that the covenant is theirs as well as ours. It is ours, but they lost it completely just after Moses received it. Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.) We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart. The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men…as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark. Origen of Alexandria (185-254 A.D.) – A ecclesiastical writer and teacher who contributed to the early formation of Christian doctrines. We may thus assert in utter confidence that the Jews will not return to their earlier situation, for they have committed the most abominable of crimes, in forming this conspiracy against the Savior of the human race…hence the city where Jesus suffered was necessarily destroyed, the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election. John Chrysostom (344-407 A.D.) – One of the "greatest" of church fathers; known as "The Golden Mouthed." A missionary preacher famous for his sermons and addresses. The synagogue is worse than a brothel…it is the den of scoundrels and the repair of wild beasts…the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults…the refuge of brigands and dabauchees, and the cavern of devils. It is a criminal assembly of Jews…a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ… a house worse than a drinking shop…a den of thieves, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, the refuge of devils, a gulf and a abyss of perdition."…"I would say the same things about their souls… As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason. From "The Roots of Christian Anti-Semitism" by Malcolm Hay St. Augustine (c. 354-430 A.D.), Confessions, 12.14 How hateful to me are the enemies of your Scripture! How I wish that you would slay them (the Jews) with your two-edged sword, so that there should be none to oppose your word! Gladly would I have them die to themselves and live to you! Peter the Venerable – known as "the meekest of men, a model of Christian charity" Yes, you Jews. I say, do I address you; you, who till this very day, deny the Son of God. How long, poor wretches, will ye not believe the truth? Truly I doubt whether a Jew can be really human… I lead out from its den a monstrous animal, and show it as a laughing stock in the amphitheater of the world, in the sight of all the people. I bring thee forward, thou Jew, thou brute beast, in the sight of all men. From "The Roots of Christian Anti-Semitism" by Malcolm Hay Martin Luther – 1543 On The Jews and Their Lies What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews? Since they live among us and we know about their lying and blasphemy and cursing, we can not tolerate them if we do not wish to share in their lies, curses, and blasphemy. In this way we cannot quench the inextinguishable fire of divine rage nor convert the Jews. We must prayerfully and reverentially practice a merciful severity. Perhaps we may save a few from the fire and flames [of hell]. We must not seek vengeance. They are surely being punished a thousand times more than we might wish them. Let me give you my honest advice. First, their synagogues should be set on fire, and whatever does not burn up should be covered or spread over with dirt so that no one may ever be able to see a cinder or stone of it. And this ought to be done for the honor of God and of Christianity in order that God may see that we are Christians, and that we have not wittingly tolerated or approved of such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of His Son and His Christians. Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed. For they perpetrate the same things there that they do in their synagogues. For this reason they ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like gypsies, in order that they may realize that they are not masters in our land, as they boast, but miserable captives, as they complain of incessantly before God with bitter wailing. Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer-books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught. Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more... Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews. For they have no business in the rural districts since they are not nobles, nor officials, nor merchants, nor the like. Let them stay at home...If you princes and nobles do not close the road legally to such exploiters, then some troop ought to ride against them, for they will learn from this pamphlet what the Jews are and how to handle them and that they ought not to be protected. You ought not, you cannot protect them, unless in the eyes of God you want to share all their abomination... To sum up, dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden - the Jews... Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew. When you lay eyes on or think of a Jew you must say to yourself: Alas, that mouth which I there behold has cursed and execrated and maligned every Saturday my dear Lord Jesus Christ, who has redeemed me with his precious blood; in addition, it prayed and pleaded before God that I, my wife and children, and all Christians might be stabbed to death and perish miserably. And he himself would gladly do this if he were able, in order to appropriate our goods... Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews, who for these fourteen hundred years have been and still are our plague, our pestilence, and our misfortune. I have read and heard many stories about the Jews which agree with this judgment of Christ, namely, how they have poisoned wells, made assassinations, kidnapped children, as related before. I have heard that one Jew sent another Jew, and this by means of a Christian, a pot of blood, together with a barrel of wine, in which when drunk empty, a dead Jew was found. There are many other similar stories. For their kidnapping of children they have often been burned at the stake or banished (as we already heard). I am well aware that they deny all of this. However, it all coincides with the judgment of Christ which declares that they are venomous, bitter, vindictive, tricky serpents, assassins, and children of the devil, who sting and work harm stealthily wherever they cannot do it openly. For this reason, I would like to see them where there are no Christians. The Turks and other heathen do not tolerate what we Christians endure from these venomous serpents and young devils...next to the devil, a Christian has no more bitter and galling foe than a Jew. There is no other to whom we accord as many benefactions and from whom we suffer as much as we do from these base children of the devil, this brood of vipers. Translated by Martin H. Bertram, "On The Jews and Their Lies, Luther's Works, Volume 47"; Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1971. Martin Luther - 1543 Of The Unknowable Name and The Generations of Christ But your [God’s] judgment is right, justus es Dominie. Yes, so shall Jews, but no one else be punished, who held your word and miracles in contempt and ridiculed, insulted and damned it for such a long time without interruption, so that they will not fall, like other humans, heathens and all the others, into sin and death, not up in Hell, nor in the middle of Hell but in the pit of Hell, as one cannot fall deeper... Even if they were punished in the most gruesome manner that the streets ran with their blood, that their dead would be counted, not in the hundred thousands, but in the millions, as happened under Vespasian in Jerusalem and for evil under Hadrian, still they must insist on being right even if after these 1,500 years they were in misery another 1,500 years, still God must be a liar and they must be correct. In sum, they are the devil’s children, damned to Hell... The Jews too got what they deserved. They had been called and elected to be God’s mouth as Jeremiah says...Open your mouth wide and I will fill it; they however, kept tightly closed their muzzles, eyes, ears, nose, whole heart and all senses, so he polluted and squirted them so full that it oozes from them in all places and devil’s filth comes from them. Yes, that tastes good to them, into their hearts, they smack their lips like swine. That is how they want it. Call more: ‘Crucify him, crucify him.’ Scream more: ‘His blood come upon us and our children.’ (Matthew 27:25) I mean it came and found you... Perhaps, one of the merciful Saints among us Christians may think I am behaving too crude and disdainfully against the poor, miserable Jews in that I deal with them so sarcastically and insulting. But, good God, I am much too mild in insulting such devils… John Calvin A Response To Questions and Objections of a Certain Jew Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone. Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvin; The Jew in Christian Theology, Gerhard Falk, McFarland and Company, Inc., Jefferson, NC and London, 1931. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted October 20, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 20, 2019 More Jew haters.. https://biblebelievers.org.au/repute.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted October 22, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,207 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) On 10/20/2019 at 12:22 PM, angels4u said: Where did you read that Calvin hated the Jews ? Can you give us proof for all you’re claiming to be true? Like most protestants, John Calvin was double-minded with regard to Jews. On the one hand, he wrote sympathetically of the ancient - Biblical - Hebrews. On the other hand, Calvin held contemporary Jews in an attitude of disdain. Calvin once wrote, "I have had much conversation with many Jews: I have never seen either a drop of piety or a grain of truth or ingenuousness – nay, I have never found common sense in any Jew." - Wikipedia Some might argue they never found any common sense in anything Calvin wrote either. A case of the pot calling the kettle black, as it were. Calvin's opinion reflects the current attitude of protestants in that God is incapable of saving a Jew unless he or she joins a church. Apparently none of them were or are aware that the first believers were all Jews and that all accounts of New Testament worship were held in synagogues. The synagogue is worse than a brothel…it is the den of scoundrels and the repair of wild beasts…the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults…the refuge of brigands and dabauchees, and the cavern of devils. It is a criminal assembly of Jews…a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ… a house worse than a drinking shop…a den of thieves, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, the refuge of devils, a gulf and a abyss of perdition."…"I would say the same things about their souls… As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason." - John Calvin From "The Roots of Christian Anti-Semitism" by Malcolm Hay I can provide several other references, but doubt the reader will accept any of them - being indoctrinated so thoroughly in particular church ideology that they refuse documentation to the contrary. John Calvin, as well as many church 'fathers', were deeply anti-semitic as is protestantism to this day. Biblical teaching means nothing to most, not all, such persons. It should be understood that the writings and attitudes of persons such as John Calvin and Martin Luther provided the basis for 20th century German National Socialist (Nazi) propaganda as well as the justification for the national policy of eugenics (genocide) against the European population of Jews. Calvin and Luther were indirectly responsible for the holocaust. Good protestants in Europe and America looked the other way while crimes against humanity were conducted. As they do to this day.(*) If John Calvin was wrong about Jews, it also follows that his doctrine of predestination is also wrong - since it is not based upon God's LAW but upon the precepts of man (St. Augustine to be specific). that's me, hollering from the choir loft.. (*) The BDS movement, organized by Palestinians, is sanctioned and officially supported by the DNC as well as every protestant denomination except Baptists. This position does not take into account God's Royal mandate to give the land to Israel, as documented by the Torah and Qur'an, from the shores of the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River - encompassing modern Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Kuwait. Instead the State of Israel is begrudgingly allowed a sliver of land less than ten miles wide (9.3) at its narrowest point. Edited October 22, 2019 by choir loft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted October 22, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, choir loft said: Calvin and Luther were indirectly responsible for the holocaust. .. not to mention the various church canons forbidding association with Israelis. It has a spiritual components that I sense but cannot put well into words... My dad was Israeli, and once in a while I come across a person that gives me the 'hate-creeps'. That is all I can say, but I think it is a spiritual 'feel' of such deep hatred I cannot explain it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted October 22, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,267 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 8:07 PM, Seasoned by Grace said: I too believe in.... PREDESTINATION BEING APPOINTED FOREKNEW GOD'S ELECT GODS REMNANT GODS "FEW" All words synonamous with each other having the same meaning. Together all these words are mentioned 347 times in the bible in this "CONTEXT". Maybe God is trying to tell us something - Maybe we should listen??? I agree.....BUT we are elect according to His foreknowledge: 1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Interesting too, that we become elect through the sanctification of the Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted October 22, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2019 I see this has dragged on far enough. David at Kylar asked God if they would give him away. God said Yes. God knew. So God could see that as happening.. BUT, David escaped, so it did not happen! So pre-knowing does NOT equate to predestination!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 22, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Justin Adams said: I see this has dragged on far enough. David at Kylar asked God if they would give him away. God said Yes. God knew. So God could see that as happening.. BUT, David escaped, so it did not happen! So pre-knowing does NOT equate to predestination!! Do you think God didn't know David would escape? I think everything fits into His plans. Anyway, this has nothing to do with how God foreknew those whom He predestined to be like His Son Jesus so He could call, justify and glorify us in Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted October 22, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, OneLight said: Do you think God didn't know David would escape? I think everything fits into His plans. Anyway, this has nothing to do with how God foreknew those whom He predestined to be like His Son Jesus so He could call, justify and glorify us in Him. Why limit God to a mere word? Folk have argued about this forever. Calvin's ideas were horrible and still are. See below for Dr. Heiser's comments. I highlighted a word so it would stand out. Council Member Participation. First Kings 22:19–23 is an important text regarding the participation of council members: “And Micah said, ‘Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; and the LORD said, “Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, “I will entice him.” And the LORD said to him, “By what means?” And he said, “I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” And he said, “You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.” Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these, your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.’ “ Yahweh decided that Ahab should die, but allows discussion about how he should die. After some discussion, one spirit steps forward with a proposal. Yahweh accepts it and says that it will succeed. Nothing in the passage suggests that Yahweh learns anything here, or that He didn’t know what the suggestion would be. Nor does it support the idea that Yahweh predestinated the suggestion. The narrative only demonstrates that Yahweh allowed council members to choose how to carry out the decree. The aftermath of the Babel incident shows that Yahweh expected that council beings use their own free decision making capacity. In Deuteronomy 4:19–20 and 32:8–9, Yahweh divided and assigned the nations to lesser gods (Heiser, “Sons of God”). Yahweh delegated authority—He rejected the nations as His own people and took Israel as His portion. While Yahweh is ultimately sovereign, He does not unilaterally govern the other nations. He leaves that to subordinates, who should rule according to His will. When they don’t, they are judged. This is precisely the point of Psa 82, where Yahweh judges the gods of his council who are responsible for corrupt rule over the nations of the earth. Heiser, M. S. (2016). Divine Council. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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