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The land of Magog

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2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Just some suggestions. Gog is like Leviathan the chaos beast. The systems are not just physical but also part of the fallen hosts. The fighters are not just humans but also of the Holy Heavenly hosts. God likes to involve all His beloved created beings.

Now just suppose that the 1000 years is not literal but 'a very long time'. And just suppose that Daniel's prophesy is complete and Ezekiel, Isiah and Hosea are blended and refer to the reversal of all the prior judgments culminating in Passover and Pentecost.

It would be hard to suppose the 1000 years are not literal.  We would have to rip Rev 20 out from the bible.

 

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From an Israeli point of view, the end of the tribulation began in 1948. To them tribulation was being carried away and having others rule them even when back in their own land. To them the regathering of lost tribes and all the nations will signify the end of tribulations. They have an entirely different take on it all. It was written to them and not us in 21st century obscurity. 

From an Israeli point of view maybe so, but we have the Old and New testaments which shed a lot more light.  We are also looking back at history, but without the New testament it would be hard to know how it ends.

 

 

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This was all prophesied, yet sometimes what we think God is going to do is done in such a way that it is not noticed. Our preconceived notions are a testimony to how easily prophesy books and modern doctrine can sway us. Whatever 'system' you believe might just be way out in left field.

I know that the system of this world today cannot be compared to how Christ's system will work during the millennium.  Christ's ways and laws don't oppress.  His system is fair and good.

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Just remember what the apostle said: "Had they but known, they never would have slain the Lord of Glory". They did NOT know and that is why the Lord God is cryptic at times. He does not want to telegraph His intentions too accurately. He knows what He is up against and does not underestimate the intelligence of His fallen hosts. He knows them well.

Yes God is cryptic, but that's why he wants us to seek!  The truth is found precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there.  In his cryptic speech he gives us tons of facts along with many clues.  My opinion is my opinion, but what's written can't be broken and the scriptures have to harmonise to reveal a clear picture.  God speaks in a certain language and his lingo is the language of the spirit.  Once the dots are connected it becomes a little easier.  If you think I have interpreted something wrong, then please just say it straight out and we can go there. 

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38 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Diaste

The valley of Jehoshaphat is not mentioned in Ezekiel 38 & 39, only the valley of Hamongog where Gog and his armies will be buried.

This valley of Hamongog is not mentioned in the Armageddon battle.

Right, so two wars. One before the millennium and one after.

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All scriptures relating to the Armageddon war in Revelation are before chapter 20.  Chapter 20 specifically refers to the Gog and Magog war.  Gog and Magog were mentioned for a reason and explicitly says that this war is after the 1000 years when Satan is let out of prison.

Yes. So again, two wars both against Gog.

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Ezekiel 38 mentions "this land" that is brought back from the sword.  This land is not just a city, or a nation, but God's land which has citizens and rulers of the Kingdom. 

Israel was brought back from the sword.

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All the kingdoms now belong to the Lord and this "land" is a land of peace and truth throughout the earth.  This land is the Lord's and all nations and kingdoms now belong to Israel.  All these cities are Israel's cities now.  All the mountains are Israel's (kingdoms). All is given to them to rule in righteousness for Christ will put them in charge. 

 Never throughout history has God's "land" on earth ever lived in peace without enemies.  This is because Satan the enemy of God always been here to stir strife against God's people.  Finally a time of rest, for a thousand years with no wars.  Truth is taught, and God's "land" has become a fruitful field.  Knowledge will increase and nations living in peace.  No one can complain.  The land before was a "wasteland", a spiritual dry desert with nothing growing.  The mountains of Israel have now become the kingdoms of our Lord Jesus, but again like today, the weeds will come up and have to be sifted out.  God will use Gog to do this.

Yes, however there are other issues.

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Ezekiel 38:8   After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
 

"In the latter years" has to be accounted for as well. One should never take a portion of a passage and ignore the rest. The latter's years is the time before Christ comes back. Maybe the peace isn't the  peace you believe it to be. 

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This cannot happen until the Prince of Peace comes and binds the enemy.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sister said:

Once the dots are connected it becomes a little easier.  If you think I have interpreted something wrong, then please just say it straight out and we can go there. 

You are correct. The bread-crumbs are scattered all over scripture, yet sometimes there is a gap.

It is certain there will be a big battle, perhaps two. It is certain that Yeshua will return. What is not certain is the order of things to come. The millennium may be a red herring, or may have passed already. And I think Daniel is mostly done with as well.

The beast stuff and the mark are similar red-herrings. If not red-herrings, then undetectable. When that happens, we will all be up the creek. We are just one EMP flash away from certain disaster. A disaster  we may not recover from. All the Beast stuff and MOB stuff is hard NOT to miss. It is in the water we drink I believe. It is everywhere. So is the immanent rapture stuff as well. It is like a lullaby to many.
This telegraphs stuff to the principalities and powers that still think they can win. We are in a war on at least three fronts and the Lord is not above using 'disinformation' to confuse His enemy. He did it before when He used a lying spirit to get Ahab to a battle so he would die.

It is certain that Israel in its completeness will be a happening thing. "All Israel" as a theological idea put forth by the apostle includes all of God's believing people; Israel, and non-Israelis who are believers are the 'seed of Abraham' and by definition are God's people. 

Gog may depict the kingdoms of the north - Og and the Rephiem (from Bashan) maybe the allusion since it will be both a spiritual war and include humans. The 'north' was considered to be 'that place' where evil resides and from whence all the end times baddies come swarming out of. Sometimes called the pit. Leviathan, the chaos beast will emerge from there.

I am not a worthy scholar like many, but I feel very, very uneasy about the majority of believers that have their trib views and the rapture views all done and dusted. It's like they packed their bags and are headed for a nice Titanic journey.
Seems like most are in a boat and do not realize the stuff that is just under the surface, waiting for an opportunity.

Edited by Justin Adams

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Justin

Prophecies are given for us so that we can know what is to come beforehand.  God has shown us so much throughout his Word and if we care for the truth, we can seek.  Nothing is hidden, it's all there to find.

It seems as if you are unsure about the whole millennium era, let alone the Gog and Magog war?

The scriptures say that Christ will rule with his saints for a thousand years.  He will be king of Kings, and Lord of Lords.  Who do you think Christ and his saints will rule over if all nations and kingdoms are destroyed at the Coming? 

There is another era coming, an era of peace, not for a year or two but for a thousand years.  So much is written about it throughout the scriptures for us to know.  There are no red herrings because God word can be counted on.  Everything must harmonise to show a clear picture without distortions. 

 

 

 

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On 8/12/2019 at 4:47 AM, Diaste said:

From what I see this Gog thing happens twice. At the valley of Jehoshaphat and the end of the Millennium. 

These peoples are gathered to the plain of Meggido along with the armies of the kings of the East to fight against Christ in the final battle before the Millennium begins.

Then Satan is loosed at the end of the Millennium to deceive the nations one more time.

I could be wrong but it's difficult to mesh Ezekiel and Revelation concerning this.

I view it the same way. This "Gog" can't be a human being because of the 1,000 year time span between the millennium. I suspect Gog is a title (leader) or a demonic supernatural spirit? This Ezekiel 38: 39: invasion of Israel and the timing is quite interesting. Some think this invasion occurs within the tribulation which very well could be. I think it's plausible this invasion could happen even before the tribulation officially starts. As Israel will be burning the weapons (possibly nuclear) for "seven years". At mid-tribulation (3 1//2 years in) all the Jew's will flee for their lives at the abomination that causes desolation. Whom would be around to burn them or even interested in this energy at the AOD? So, if this conjecture is correct, this invasion has to occur a minimum of 3 1/2 years prior to the start of the seven year covenant with the many that reveals whom the Antichrist is. 

One thing I've wondered about during the millennial reign of our Lord Jesus Christ, that I don't recall ever hearing any discussion on. We know that the nations (representatives I assume) will have to go to Jerusalem yearly. How do you suppose they will travel? I've thought about and studied if our modern and advanced technology will still be in place for work, production and speedy air travel, but have come up with a blank as to how the world / nations will mechanically work and produce?

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16 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I view it the same way. This "Gog" can't be a human being because of the 1,000 year time span between the millennium. I suspect Gog is a title (leader) or a demonic supernatural spirit?

Hi Dennis

Gog is a man.  His corpse is left on the open field for the vultures etc. 

Ezekiel 39:4   Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Ezekiel 39:5   Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

 

Ezekiel 39:11   And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

Rotting flesh.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

One thing I've wondered about during the millennial reign of our Lord Jesus Christ, that I don't recall ever hearing any discussion on. We know that the nations (representatives I assume) will have to go to Jerusalem yearly. How do you suppose they will travel? I've thought about and studied if our modern and advanced technology will still be in place for work, production and speedy air travel, but have come up with a blank as to how the world / nations will mechanically work and produce?

There are those in Israel that flee to the valley created when Jesus cleaves the mount of olives. Perhaps its these who repopulate the earth at least in part and they are the ones who burn the weapons and bury the bones.

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5 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Dennis

Gog is a man.  His corpse is left on the open field for the vultures etc. 

Ezekiel 39:4   Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

Ezekiel 39:5   Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

 

Ezekiel 39:11   And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

Rotting flesh.

 

 

Revelation 20:8 (KJV) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The evidence from the old historians is overwhelming, Magog is a place, now Russia. The Magogian's became the Scythian's, the Great Wall of China was built to keep out the Magog's and was once called the Magog Wall. But anyway; I can't see Gog being the same person in the Ezekiel invasion and 1,000+ years later at the close of the millennium the same person. So perhaps Gog is a title, or a demon possessed being?   

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1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Revelation 20:8 (KJV) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The evidence from the old historians is overwhelming, Magog is a place, now Russia. The Magogian's became the Scythian's, the Great Wall of China was built to keep out the Magog's and was once called the Magog Wall. But anyway; I can't see Gog being the same person in the Ezekiel invasion and 1,000+ years later at the close of the millennium the same person. So perhaps Gog is a title, or a demon possessed being?   

Yes I've heard what these historians have said.  They are looking for a nation that exists today but God says that Magog is in the four quarters of the earth -  ie, throughout the earth.  So how can it be one nation?

In my opening pages I gave proof from the scriptures that there will still be trading going on during the thousand years.  Men can buy fields for "money".  Men are used for employment like we have today.  There is gold and silver, and durable clothing that is brought into the kingdom and God is taking back what belongs to him. 

What does Christ need with all the gold and silver?  It will be used just like today - for the nations to buy and sell with.  It's also a lure God made for Gog - to steal all that wealth that belongs to Christ's kingdom.

 

Magog  is not a nation, but a "land" of merchants.  Gog is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, which is the land of Magog.  It's not a country, but "a land".  For example today we have the land of sports, the land of music, or the land of Hollywood.  The definition for "Magog" including Meschech and Tubal was given early to us in the scriptures.  They were originally the people of Japeth (which became Europe) and Europe is not just one nation.

The foundation for the definition of Magog, Meschech and Tubal was given to us in the scriptures early, so that we could interpret later..  Magog will be the traders of the earth existing after the 1000 years has expired.  They are not a nation, but a land of merchants.  Greedy merchants going back to the old ways, and taking the bait in going after all the material things of the earth again.

Ezekiel 27:13   Javan, Tubal, and Meshech, they were thy merchants: they traded the persons of men and vessels of brass in thy market.

After a thousand years of teaching the nations, these "merchants" have refused to circumcise their hearts.

Ezekiel 37 & 38 is a different war to the Armageddon war.  It is a thousand years later, and the same war mentioned in Rev 20.

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