Christian Behavior or Not?

[ReneeIW]

9 hours ago, Jostler said:

You might enjoy reading 1st Corinthians Chapter 5...and it might modify what you appear to now believe about "judging".

1st Corinthians 5 is such a powerful chapter. Lots of people forget about this Scripture, including myself. Whenever I read it,  I often struggle with verse 5.

5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord [c]Jesus.

[ReneeIW]

14 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Perhaps point out how we are to obey the laws of the land except where they contradict the Lord. Since a drug is illegal, its a sin to be using it. Does the church leadership know this person is in sin and hosting a bible study?

For me personally, if I approached that bible study leader, and if they just made excuses for it, I would leave the bible study. 

I dont know that it is worse or better than an addict. Both wilfully use something that is illegal. What strikes me is that the person is leading a bible study yet excuses their willful sin. 

I don’t go to his church but have enjoyed fellowship with this person. He is very wise, knows the Bible well and is heavily involved in all types of Christian service.

He was launching a new church program to help inmates and the kick off party for the program was recorded and put on YouTube. 

When I saw the video, he appeared to be heavily intoxicated. I showed my husband and he thought the same thing. When I spoke to him over the phone, I brought up the fact that I saw the video and was a little worried about him. He has been going to AA for years and I know how important sobriety is to him.

He told me that he had not had “one drop” but had used a drug. A horrible street drug. I can’t bring myself to even use the name. When he heard the shock and sadness in my voice, he said he only uses it“very sparingly.” I told him where I come from there is a stigma against even using drugs one single time. I wasn’t judging him, but just being honest about my feelings and upbringing(my grandfather was a cop and hated what drugs did to communities).

In any case,  I was grateful that he felt comfortable talking to me. 

I did discuss it with my pastor, who happens to be a good friend of the family and also works in law enforcement. He said I shouldn’t be friends with someone like that. So he didn’t withhold judgment at all.

In the past, I had been told not to judge  someone unless they were specifically doing something contrary to Scripture. These same people judged me for wearing jeans but that is another story.

 

[Jostler]

4 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

1st Corinthians 5 is such a powerful chapter. Lots of people forget about this Scripture, including myself. Whenever I read it,  I often struggle with verse 5.

5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord [c]Jesus.

well, what I get out of that Chapter is an understanding that  there's a huge difference between judging those outside the Body (which should be left up to God) and judging those who name the Name of Christ and walk contrary to His revealed will.

As far as verse 5 goes, I see the the severity of a loving Father willing to allow one of His own's natural life to be taken in order to prevent losing him eternally.

It's a sobering view of the  result of  giving our lives to sin in His house, and the extreme measures He tells us to take when problems are addressed and repentance is rejected.

Paul actually rebuked the Corinthians for FAILING to judge the sin in their midst...and warned that unaddressed sin allowed to remain would end up growing like leaven and polluting the  whole congregation.

It's really a big  topic with  a lot of facets, but the  beginnings of that process of reining in sin within the Body are outlined in Matt 18:15-17 and Matt 5:23-24.   James weighs in on the topic in James 5:19-20 and Paul adds to the general topic in Galations 6:1

i doubt that's a comprehensive  list, but the  heart of the  one trying to bring  correction is dealt with  just as important as the  necessity of  judging sin in the Body.

[ReneeIW]

9 minutes ago, Jostler said:

As far as verse 5 goes, I see the the severity of a loving Father willing to allow one of His own's natural life to be taken in order to prevent losing him eternally.

It's

But this verse is calling for the church to personally deliver the person to Satan. 

 

11 minutes ago, Jostler said:

It's really a big  topic with  a lot of facets, but the  beginnings of that process of reining in sin within the Body are outlined in Matt 18:15-17 and Matt 5:23-24.   James weighs in on the topic in James 5:19-20 and Paul adds to the general topic in Galations 6:1

Thank you for these verses.

[Jostler]

7 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

But this verse is calling for the church to personally deliver the person to Satan. 

 

i  could elaborate on my perception of the  "why" behind that...but even without that there's no doubt in my  mind that's a very  sobering  passage.   That's serious business right there....with dire consequences.

 

Edit: but there is a very  good end to that sordid story too....that harsh action DID result in repentance, and restoration of fellowship for the offender....Paul mentions that in 2nd Corinthians 2:1-11

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Jostler

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

In the past, I had been told not to judge  someone unless they were specifically doing something contrary to Scripture. These same people judged me for wearing jeans but that is another story.

Well, you do know that jeans and t-shirts are an abomination...at least to cults like The Potter's House. In NZ there's a strong possibility you wouldn't be allowed in the door of their pagan temple wearing such casual attire. They have macho bouncers wearing dark three-piece suits inspecting everyone who comes to their cult meetings. 

Thanks for the digression, a very worthy thread, Renee.

[ReneeIW]

20 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Well, you do know that jeans and t-shirts are an abomination...at least to cults like The Potter's House

These were Bible believing Christians. They were basing this off of Deuteronomy 5

 

5The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so areabomination unto the LORD thy God.

[Michael37]

10 minutes ago, ReneeIW said:

These were Bible believing Christians. They were basing this off of Deuteronomy 5

 

5The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so areabomination unto the LORD thy God.

Yes, well quoted. It's legalism. The letter of the law which they want to bring everyone under. The very essence of cults like the aforementioned who prohibit their members from owning TVs.

[LadyKay]

19 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

What would you think of a “devout” Christian who leads a Bible Study saying they were not a drug addict but only uses a certain(very addictive and illegal) drug “very  sparingly.”

Isn’t that worse  than being an addict? I know nothing about drugs, but I would think that if you are not addicted, then you have no excuse for ever using drugs.

I was told that we are not supposed to judge people about things that are not specifically in the Bible but I’m having a hard time not judging this.

Thoughts?

 

I would simply ask them "why."   Then listen to what they have to say. I guess what I would say back would depend on what they said.  A lot of people with mental health issues self medicate.  Maybe they could use some guidance? Well that is what I would do. 

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

You might want to check out the word "pharmakeia" in the context of the Bible

Which verse please ?