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He shall subdue three kings


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11 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

 

Revelation 13:v.1-2

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:

and the Dragon gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.

 

What God revealed that shall be in the latter days?

 

The body of this beast is "like" a leopard.  He moves fast.  We were given an example of Alexander the great who conquered with great speed.  He was like a leopard, and the Grecian empire invented "democracy".  The body is a democratic one, or was before it changes to a dictatorship.

This beasts feet are like a bears.  He tramples on everything and his claws tear in pieces.  We were given an example of the Persians who did the same (although no one can see that the bear in Dan 7 represented Persia)  This beast's kingdom however, is today using the Persians to do the stomping (Islam).  They are working together.  This beast's kingdom is mixing with "the seed of men".  They are mixing with outsiders, hence the iron and the clay.  They mingle but don't stick. 

His mouth like a lion.  Just like Darius before (although no one can see that the lion in Dan 7 represents Darius of the Mede's) Darius must of had a big mouth before a man's heart was given to him and he was humbled.  He was proud before.  This beast's kingdom is using the Mede's again (their voice).  Islam again.  Iron mixing with the clay.  All working together.  The beast is using Islam to stir, but it's for the body's own agenda.  The Mede's will stand up at the 6th trumpet.  They don't receive what was promised to them.  They realise they were being used.  The iron and the clay again.  They mingle but they don't stick. 

Just like Babylon before was conquered by Medo-Persia, history will repeat and modern day Medo/Persia (Islam) will attack the gates of Babylon at the end of the FP's reign, starting WW3 and leading to Armageddon.  That war with the mede's will be stopped or no flesh will be saved.  One third of men will die in this war, but it's at the end of the trib, not the beginning.  Don't forget the beast's body (leopard) rules over the feet and the mouth as it's rising.

 

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8 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Believing doctrinal things that are unsupported by scripture and the manipulation of the chronological flow of revelation are sufficient reasons for me to bow out of this conversation. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Da Puppers

Ok, but considering this sea of glass has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, you have given me a mish mash of scriptures all crammed into one to prove your point, but they are all different scenario's and do not all point to the resurrection which I agree.  I don't come on here to argue, but to share what I know.  The meatier matters of what I have shown in this thread holds no value to you, but is pushed aside by bringing on new arguments.  Out of courtesy I try to address everyone's points, and try to do it in a clear manner that is easy to be understood.

Those who are standing on the sea of glass in Rev 15:2, is showing John those saints of the last days which overcame, singing and praising the Lord because they were chosen faithful and the Lord has let them know it.  They are in my opinion standing in the resurrection of the saints, rejoicing.  They have inherited everything.  They are changed, quickened now.  Spirit.  It's manifested now they are God's children, the children of the kingdom.

 

Those souls under the altar in Rev 6:9-11 who are crying out "How long, O Lord before you avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?  Are obviously not resurrected yet.  The white robes given to them is just a metaphor showing that these dead have overcome and it's clear that they must stay in the grave until all their brethren are killed just like they were.  The point here, the dead in Christ of past generations must wait until the saints of the end times go through their persecutions also .....and the resurrection is not yet although their places are reserved in heaven, hence the white robes.  They must stay in the grave a little longer.

On 8/28/2019 at 10:02 AM, Da Puppers said:

The sea of glass is also "before the throne ", Rev 4:6.  

The fellowservants who were to be killed also are those found before the throne in:  Rev 7:9 KJV After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

They too,  are before the throne AND wearing white robes AND  palms in their hands.   This indicates that white robes AND having palms in their hands is proof that what you are wearing and or carrying is not an indicator of the conferment of immortality.   The same can be said of those having harps in their hands (to sing with) of those found in Rev 15:1,2.  The sea (of glass), then is the abode of the righteous dead.   The reward of immortality,  according to Paul, is a crown of righteousness.  None of these groups is seen wearing crowns,  thereby nullifying your claim that those in Rev 15 have received their crowns of victory and/ or life.

Rev 2:10 KJV Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

Then you give me Rev 4:6 to show the sea of glass again, to prove your point....that this sea of glass represents the dead who have not received their reward yet?  John received a vision of heaven, with the four beasts around God's throne.  Of course that sea of glass is there, because God's throne is above it, and it's under his feet.  It's before the throne.  That sea of glass is what separates heaven from the earth physically and spiritually.

Now you give me Rev 7:9.  In this vision, John is shown the 144K being sealed, then after that he sees a great multitude which no man can number.  Again, he is taken to the end of all things in this vision.  The details in between on how they got there is not listed in this chapter, it's just a "glimpse" of this event.  These are all the saints together, from past and future generations.  It's a different multitude from the 144K.  They are praising and glorifying the Lord and have come out of not "the great tribulation", but "great tribulation".  They had their tribulations also in their times.  This would include saints from all generations together, from the first to the last.  This is a resurrection.  Now notice it says that the Lamb "shall" feed them and "lead them" to living fountains of water at the end?  Why is that?  Shouldn't they be fed already, and shouldn't they already of been led to living fountains of water?  NO.  They were obviously not fed during their walk, but saved through grace.  THE LAMB DID NOT FEED THEM during their lives.  Maybe some things, but not everything.  Maybe they were preaching ERROR and the Lamb will now give them TRUTH.  Maybe their doctrines of Christ were given from MAN.  Regardless they overcame in the end, and received the promise.  Hence why there is a distinction of the two groups - the 144K, and the great multitude.  This is why we should be very careful when handling the Word of God.  Any one of us could err, and mercy is necessary for all of us who endure to the end. (our end).

None of these groups are seen wearing crowns, because in my opinion, just because crowns are not mentioned here doesn't prove it's not the resurrection, because we know from other scriptures that all  who will take part in the resurrection receive crowns.   All the saints will reign with Christ. 

The truth is given throughout  the scriptures, a little here and a little there, and not everything crammed into a verse or a few verses.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

[Note:  I do all my writing on this site,  and others,  via my phone.   This does not allow me to respond to individual points with connective fluidity.   This leads to seemingly long run-on response].

That's ok.  Listen, you are still my brother in Christ.  I respect your opinion, as you are entitled to it, even though I don't agree on everything you say, but some things you say are good.  Don't take anything personal.  I am a matter of fact person, and can come across blunt sometimes, but my heart is here with the Lord and for you also and everyone here.  So it matters how you talk to people.  If you come across condescending, the other person will get their back up.  Choose your words wisely as I will choose mine also as to not fall into temptation.
 

Quote

We diverted to talking about the sea of glass when you made the claim that the sea represents nations and not the realm of the dead.   To which I pointed you to Rev 20 where the "sea " gives up the dead.   From there I attempted to show you that it is the place where the souls under the altar are, as well as the innumerable multitude of Rev 7 that came out of great tribulation. 

Yes, because you are mixing two different seas.  They both don't have the same interpretation throughout all the prophecies.  Revelation 17 shows us that the harlot which sits upon "the waters" symbolises masses of people.

 Revelation 17:15   And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Nations and kingdoms don't come out of place where the souls under the altar are?  They come out of peoples.  I think the reason why God calls this the waters or seas is because he's looking down on us.  When there are multitudes of peoples together, it looks like a sea. When they move it looks like waves.  Or have you ever seen the audience of a huge football match from a distance where they all raise their hands, everyone following in sync?  It resembles a wave doesn't it?

All of mankind together must remind God of the sea, or waters which is why he chose to use this word "sea"  in his lingo depicting masses of peoples already there.  It's not the same thing as the sea of glass which is a another sea altogether.  It doesn't relate to this particular scenario.  Kingdoms don't come out of dead people spiritually in the heavenly realm, is all I'm really trying to say.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

I am mixing up 2 different "seas"?  You need to rethink what you are saying here.  'Seas ' & 'waters' are not even the same word.   You are comparing apples with oranges.  

Genesis 1:10   And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

 

 Isaiah 51:10   Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?

 Isaiah 19:5   And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.

 

 Isaiah 17:12   Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!

  Isaiah 17:13   The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

  Isaiah 18:2   That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

The focus of our current discussion is focusing on how you interpret the sea.   Unless you are willing to address the above quote, I feel like it would be better to not go any further with this.   

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

Da Puppers

Your dodging my reproof, and now want to grade me on whether my interpretation matches yours?  Obviously our interpretations are not harmonising so why do you want me to do this?

 

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Da Puppers

To interpret a vision or dream is to be given understanding of the hidden things God wants to show us.  He uses symbolism a lot because he doesn't want these hidden things revealed to all.  Firstly, there is no method but a repentant heart and a deep love for Christ.  If we love Christ as we say, then we should love the Word of God and put truth first above all things.  That involves hanging off every word that comes out of the mouth of God.  Being close to God is not about how loud we praise him in front of others, but about how we touch not the unclean thing in our everyday walk, and in our thoughts, and actions.  To keep on the narrow road, by refraining from evil, we need to feed the spirit constantly with his Word.  We can only do this by seeking and reading the scriptures.  When we do this, we should notice a pattern in God's speech.  That pattern uses certain words over and over when he's talking about the same thing in different passages.  It's the spirit of God that teaches and guides us to connect the scriptures showing us his lingo and definitions.  This is the holy spirit, the spirit of truth helping us.  I cannot teach someone that has walked off the narrow path, because the spirit will not allow it.  It doesn't matter how many times we repeat ourselves, if the Lord does not want to give that understanding to someone he wont because it's precious.  It can also be too early for them, like it was for me once, because the right foundations have to be put in place before we can build up to that understanding.  You have to learn in steps.  Another scenario is that some have been given the wrong wine by their church.  If the cup is too full, you won't be able to take any more in. 

If interpretation is not given to some, they can have the straight forward things that need no interpretation instead, just simple and plain.  Interpreting scripture is not something you can just take on and learn, because it has to be given from above and THE HEART HAS TO BE RIGHT.  Without this we get NOTHING but ERROR.  If the heart becomes right, then God will feed us a little at a time, measure by measure, and those errors we made can be corrected so that our knowledge can grow.

Yet, if someone wants to come along and argue, the truth can be proven.  God provided a way through his written word that the truth will expose all lies and errors.   All the information we need to understand is already contained in the scriptures.  The bible has it's own dictionary and is to be understood precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there.  If we are committing sin, (and the Lord knows), then the word will be used as a stumbling block....to lead us into error and block us from the whole truth (because the truth is a gift)

Now if you want a comparison let's take a look at the word EGYPT.  Egypt was a real place, a huge kingdom, and they were notorious for worshiping false gods and keeping the Hebrews in captivity as slaves.   When God uses the word Egypt in many prophesies, especially when referring to end times, we know he's not talking about the old Egypt, but a land that still exists today.  This land is the land of captivity.  If any nation or man is dwelling in Egypt he's become an oppressor, just like they were, or he likes to be under oppression. Egypt is the metaphor now to describe a particular land of people from all over the earth who fit under that umbrella.  We can always go back to the land of Egypt today spiritually.  We can turn to sin again and serve our old master if we chose.

What I like to do is help those who are on the straight path, who are reading these prophecies, and need a little help.  I encourage every one to not just trust me, but to check out the scriptures themselves and always weigh everything out.

 I can tell you really believe what you are saying.  Honestly, can you see either one of us getting anything out of this?  It's only going to turn into a circus because we are butting heads.   I will however try to answer your questions over the weekend and until then, please go back and ponder over those scriptures I gave you where God uses the word "waters" and "seas" together in many verses whereas you said they had nothing to do with each other.

 

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The little horn of the which rises from one of the beast's 10 horns in Daniel 7:8, 20, & 24, appears again in Daniel 8:9 rising from one of four seceded horns of a he goat. Prior to secession, the he goat was a single horn. Recognizing the he goat as one of the beast's members; then prior to secession the beast would have had only seven horns. These seven horns/military forces would then correspond to seven nations today.

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On 8/30/2019 at 6:50 AM, luigi said:

The little horn of the which rises from one of the beast's 10 horns in Daniel 7:8, 20, & 24, appears again in Daniel 8:9 rising from one of four seceded horns of a he goat. Prior to secession, the he goat was a single horn. Recognizing the he goat as one of the beast's members; then prior to secession the beast would have had only seven horns. These seven horns/military forces would then correspond to seven nations today.

I disagree to the utmost: the little horn of Daniel 7 is the same beast of Rev. 13 (not the false prophet). The little horn in Daniel 8 is only a TYPE of the beast of Rev. 13: being Antiochus Epiphanes.  Note carefully the CONTEXT.

In other words, two different beasts: one the real Antichrist Beast and the other a type. 

Edited by iamlamad
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50 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I disagree to the utmost: the little horn of Daniel 7 is the same beast of Rev. 13 (not the false prophet). The little horn in Daniel 8 is only a TYPE of the beast of Rev. 13: being Antiochus Epiphanes.  Note carefully the CONTEXT.

In other words, two different beasts: one the real Antichrist Beast and the other a type. 

Hello iamlamad,

The little horn in Daniel 7 who rises from one of the 4th beasts and 10 horns is also given the designation of the beasts mouth (Daniel 7:8; 20; 24-25). This mouth which is given to the beast in Daniel 7 we see again in Revelation 13:5, given to the beast with seven heads and 10 horns. The beasts mouth makes war with the saints overcomes them in Revelation 13:7, which Daniel Daniel 7:25 describes as wearing out the saints. 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

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On 8/13/2019 at 11:28 PM, Sister said:

 

Daniel 7:7   After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Daniel 7:8   I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 7:20   And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
 

Daniel 7:24   And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
 

10 kings shall arise.  This kingdom is different from all the kingdoms before it.

Out of this kingdom with the 10 kings, another horn (king) shall arise. (singular - 1 king)

As this horn is coming up (rising to power) - 3 kings fell.

He, the little horn is the king who is subduing these three kings.

The three kings who fell, are not of the 10 horns, because in Rev 13 there are 10 horns, not 7. (also see Rev 12:3 - 10 horns)

Three kings are in the little horn's way.  They must be three powerful kings.

What's the best way to bring down a kingdom?

Destroy their economy.

Loans will be called in by the federal reserve bank.

If a nation cannot pay, then someone has to pay that debt for them.

A debt is a debt.  It must be paid and doesn't disappear.

Who-ever pays that debt now controls that nation.

This is how I think he will bring down the three kings who are a threat.  Not through war, but by bringing down their economy.

A bankrupted nation cannot go to war and cannot defend.  Cannot even eat.

Chaos is coming.  This little horn and the 10 kings who he is working with have now made the conditions right to take over.  Expect big changes in the near future.

 

 

 

 

 

The little horn subdued three kings in 1967 when you he took control of the seven hilled cuty of Jerusalem.

Talk about being humiliated.It only took six days.

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