iamlamad Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, luigi said: Do you not recognize how these commentaries use spin to support their perspective so that they fit their dogma about it representing a 2nd century BC event, which has little relevance in history, and less relevance with the saints? They also use spin to claim these events are not during the end times, which Gabriel in Daniel 8:17 & 19 states they do represent, and thus in effect they deny God's Word. Show us the "spin." What you are missing: it is your theory that is off, not the commentaries: this chapter IS about 2nd century events. Look, if you insist on pulling verses out of context, just know you will have flaky doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,744 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 308 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, iamlamad said: The confusion only seems to be on your side. One person did an abomination around 170 BC and the other is still future. How then can they be confused? There is no confusion on my side iamlamad. I see that in effect you are saying that the Lord simply lumped these two supposedly different individuals who have the same characteristics and descriptions, in the same book of Daniel, without providing clarification to their being two separate entities. If that were the case, which it is not, I will state again, that would make the Lord an author of chaos, which He is not. While you may wish to continue to believe some barely known entity in history ranks mention alongside the little horn, also referred to as the Antichrist, who will bring down half the human race, if not more to hell with him; I on the other hand see that your perspective lacks credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, luigi said: Let me ask you a couple of simple questions: As you have stated "OF COURSE a very similar thing will happen in our future, but it will not be done be Antiochus Epiphanes", why would the Lord use so many similar descriptions about the little horn (aka the beast's mouth, the narcissist; aka the abomination of desolation) in Daniel chapters 7, 8, 9 and 11, as well as 2 Thessalonians 2:4, when Antiochus Epiphanes was such a minor player in history, and the entity in Daniel 7, 9, 11, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is going to be such a major player that he is going to take most of the world down to hell with him? How do these two vastly different level entities correlate? Very simple: because God allowed Antiochus to become a TYPE of the future Beast of Rev. 13. The reason God allowed that is because Israel was FAR from where they should have been in relation to God. Sin always has consequences. You THINK Antiochus was a minor player. Maybe in your mind, but NOT to God and NOT to Israel. The Jewish feast "Hanukkah" came from their ordeal with Antiochus. Keep in mind, Antiochus may not have realized it, but he was going against the God of creation - and he paid the price for it. Perhaps God wanted an example for His people; someone that did similar things but on a smaller scale. Did you notice this verse? And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. This shows us it was Satan behind Antiochus; he did not do these things by his own power. This is exactly what it will be with the Beast. He will be the man of sin turned into the Beast when he becomes possessed by Satan. Another reason God included so much about Antiochus may well be because Antiochus was also possessed by Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, luigi said: There is no confusion on my side iamlamad. I see that in effect you are saying that the Lord simply lumped these two supposedly different individuals who have the same characteristics and descriptions, in the same book of Daniel, without providing clarification to their being two separate entities. If that were the case, which it is not, I will state again, that would make the Lord an author of chaos, which He is not. While you may wish to continue to believe some barely known entity in history ranks mention alongside the little horn, also referred to as the Antichrist, who will bring down half the human race, if not more to hell with him; I on the other hand see that your perspective lacks credibility. Friend, there IS clarification in the CONTEXT of chapter 8 - but you are ignoring this context. Anyone can make the bible say most anything if they are willing to ignore context. By the way, I don't always agree with commentaries, but these were very learned men that wrote commentaries. We should at least consider their words. We will just agree to disagree on this. I cannot pull a verse out of context to satisfy a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,744 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 308 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Very simple: because God allowed Antiochus to become a TYPE of the future Beast of Rev. 13. The reason God allowed that is because Israel was FAR from where they should have been in relation to God. Sin always has consequences. You THINK Antiochus was a minor player. Maybe in your mind, but NOT to God and NOT to Israel. The Jewish feast "Hanukkah" came from their ordeal with Antiochus. Keep in mind, Antiochus may not have realized it, but he was going against the God of creation - and he paid the price for it. Perhaps God wanted an example for His people; someone that did similar things but on a smaller scale. Did you notice this verse? And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. This shows us it was Satan behind Antiochus; he did not do these things by his own power. This is exactly what it will be with the Beast. He will be the man of sin turned into the Beast when he becomes possessed by Satan. Another reason God included so much about Antiochus may well be because Antiochus was also possessed by Satan. I guess there may be no harm in your believing the identical description of the entity in Daniel 8 is a separate entity who is equivalent to the Antichrist in Daniel 7, 9, 11, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4. I just hope that when the Antichrist makes his appearance that Satan doesn't deceive you into not believing him to be who he is, as you have denied numerous criteria about him in Daniel 8 representing him. Edited September 17, 2019 by luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 18, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 hours ago, luigi said: I guess there may be no harm in your believing the identical description of the entity in Daniel 8 is a separate entity who is equivalent to the Antichrist in Daniel 7, 9, 11, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4. I just hope that when the Antichrist makes his appearance that Satan doesn't deceive you into not believing him to be who he is, as you have denied numerous criteria about him in Daniel 8 representing him. I guess there is no harm in you pulling verses in Daniel 8 out of their Greece and Persia context and imagining he is the same being as the Beast of Rev. 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted September 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 On 9/15/2019 at 4:23 AM, Shilohsfoal said: The little horn subdued three kings in 1967 when you he took control of the seven hilled cuty of Jerusalem. Talk about being humiliated.It only took six days. Hi Shilohsfoal The little horn is the false prophet, ...the Son of Perdition who will be thrown into the lake of fire at the Coming. He has not been revealed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathoflife Posted September 21, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2019 Hi everyone, the problem with 70 AD is myriad. Titus was not a Prince, the stones of the temple complex were not “air thrilled) how many weeks after Messiah was cutoff was 70 ad how many years was it until 70 ad was reached. If this was fulfilled in 70 AD here are some things must happen in conjunction with its fulfillment. Anti- Christ, the prince of the world whom apostate Israel accepted. The faithful Remnant was saved by a giant valley opened by the Sons return to the Mount of Olives anti- -Christ another major problem is when anti-Christ’s counterfeit works to pass himself off as the Christ. When we take up his return we find something that magically disappears in our teaching on that demonic counterfeits coming. Just as the Lord Jesus is coming with His angels. Where is anti- Christ’s counterfeit of this? Right before our eyes. Just as Christ is the King of heaven anti- Christ is the King of The bottomless pit or the Abyss. Who comes up out of the Abyss? The demonic locusts and we are told the fallen angels under the Euphrates are loosed as well, all these beings are the fallen angels who have been held here for this time of Judgment. One last thing. The Lord prophesied that the Last Days would be As in the Days of Noah and the nephilim, fallen angels, roamed the earth. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathoflife Posted September 28, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2019 There is an old saying, "The Old in the New concealed the New in the Old revealed." Simply put the Old and the New work together to teach us the truth of Scripture. Many heard it as "Scripture interprets Scripture." This is one of t 7 So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds. The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, “I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another’s flesh.” 10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the Lord. 12 I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord. 14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the family bond between Judah and Israel. This is the time of the End covering the Day of the Lord and other events. We notice that the Lord has two shepherds staffs one is named "Favor" and the other is named "Union." These two shepherds staffs that in that final week of Years from Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy . In this prophecy the first shepherds staff, Favor," is broken. Favor was a staff representing the work the Lord has done all these years in keeping Israel safe from those who would wipe them out. The Lord has slowly been removing that protection and we see two results first Israel gets attacked more and more and with each attack it drives the second result the wall that is being built around her to try and stop those attacks. But it is the breaking of the second staff that opens the way for true catastrophic events. The second staff is Union or Unity. That's right the nation of Israel will once again become a divided kingdom and why does that need to happen? When the kingdom's split over false worship they became the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel. The twelve tribe kingdom of Israel became a the Southern kingdom consisting of two tribes. While he Northern Kingdom having 10 kings. And we are shown in this passage from Zechariah's prophecy that the Northern kingdom that had been ten kings, with crowns on each head has had three of the shepherds forcibly, plucked, Here are the 7 kings that remain after the 3 are removed leaving three crowns but no heads. The events shown in this prophecy is at the End but unlucky Israelites who are on the verge of being destroyed by anti-Christ and the false Elijah by the hand of anti-Christ, the false Prophet and their army of demonic soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.48 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2019 On 9/19/2019 at 9:55 AM, Sister said: Hi Shilohsfoal The little horn is the false prophet, ...the Son of Perdition who will be thrown into the lake of fire at the Coming. He has not been revealed yet. Well,dont look now but he controls the seven hilled city of Jerusalem as we speak . King of Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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