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He shall subdue three kings


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Shilohsfoal

This is what the scriptures reveal;

The False Prophet is the Son of Perdition.

The Son of Perdition is the little horn.

The little horn rules over the end time kingdom.

This end time kingdom will only last for 3 1/2 years and then the end will come ...of his kingdom and the whole system of man ruling.  Christ takes over.

 

  Daniel 12:1   And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 Daniel 12:4   But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

  Daniel 12:5   Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

  Daniel 12:6   And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

  Daniel 12:7   And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

The Mark of the beast has to be issued first.  The Son of  perdition is the one who will enforce that law.  This law is not enforced yet.  It is waiting for him to appear on the world stage.  When this law is enforced and we cannot buy or sell without this mark, we will know it is him who has come to fulfill prophecy.  This has not happened yet.  He is not past, or current,... but near future....to come.  Until he comes, it is the 10 kings who get the system prepared for his arrival.  They will be given power to rule for 3 1/2 years with him.

 

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 11:28 PM, Sister said:

The three kings who fell, are not of the 10 horns,

 

But they are of the 10 horns, the scripture you posted says so.

 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

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2 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

But they are of the 10 horns, the scripture you posted says so.

 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The answer is in Zec 11

So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock. In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.

The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them and said, “I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another’s flesh.”

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2 hours ago, breathoflife said:

The answer is in Zec 11

So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock. In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.

The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them and said, “I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another’s flesh.”

 

I've been considering your theory since you first posted it, and while I haven't dismissed it entirely, I do think this interpretation is rather problematic for numerous reasons.  The most important one being, the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom were just 10 tribes, not 10 kingdoms with 10 kings.  They were one kingdom, with one king.  Israel never had more than 2 kings at any one time, counting all 12 tribes.

God bless

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14 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

But they are of the 10 horns, the scripture you posted says so.

 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Hi wingnut

I explained it all on the first page.

Horn means authority.  These 10 horns have authority.  When you first read Dan 7:8, it appears that three of the 10 horns will be uprooted just before the little horn comes up.

but when you read the explanation given to Daniel it is more clear;

Daniel 7:24   And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The 10 kings are there first.  The little horn comes out of them, ....out of that same kingdom.  That kingdom has 10 horns.  Other kingdoms have horns also (authority figures), although they are not specifically mentioned, but we know they exist.  As this little horn is rising to power, there are 3 other power figures not of his kingdom.  Another 3 horns.  They are in the way.  They must be a threat?  He will remove their power, so that his kingdom can take the lead. 

In Rev 13, there are seven heads and ten horns who are given power.  The 10 horns are on the 7th head. The last kingdom. You can't remove the heads because they are kingdoms that have ruled since Egypt.  They have risen to power one after another throughout history.  You can't remove three horns also from this last 7th head, because it started with 10 horns as the little horn is rising, and ends with ten horns when they have received power.  10 - 0 = 10.  We are not left with 7 horns - because it says in Rev 13, there are 10 horns with 10 crowns. That's the final number.  Therefore these 3 other horns that are taken down are not of his kingdom, but of other kingdoms.  Three Superpowers taken out of the way.  There won't be a war to remove them, because it's too simple.  Bankrupt their nations.  They will be taken down like this, the quickest and easiest way.  They will have no say or threat on the world stage but will have to submit to the 10 kings. 

Any one can believe that the 3 horns he takes down are out of his own kingdom, and that it will leave only 7 horns, but then that will be adding to scripture because it doesn't say 7 horns will receive power with the beast for one hour.  We mustn't get the horns and the heads mixed up.  They are separate.  I hope you can understand my reasoning.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi wingnut

I explained it all on the first page.

Horn means authority.  These 10 horns have authority.  When you first read Dan 7:8, it appears that three of the 10 horns will be uprooted just before the little horn comes up.

but when you read the explanation given to Daniel it is more clear;

Daniel 7:24   And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The 10 kings are there first.  The little horn comes out of them, ....out of that same kingdom.  That kingdom has 10 horns.  Other kingdoms have horns also (authority figures), although they are not specifically mentioned, but we know they exist.  As this little horn is rising to power, there are 3 other power figures not of his kingdom.  Another 3 horns.  They are in the way.  They must be a threat?  He will remove their power, so that his kingdom can take the lead. 

In Rev 13, there are seven heads and ten horns who are given power.  The 10 horns are on the 7th head. The last kingdom. You can't remove the heads because they are kingdoms that have ruled since Egypt.  They have risen to power one after another throughout history.  You can't remove three horns also from this last 7th head, because it started with 10 horns as the little horn is rising, and ends with ten horns when they have received power.  10 - 0 = 10.  We are not left with 7 horns - because it says in Rev 13, there are 10 horns with 10 crowns. That's the final number.  Therefore these 3 other horns that are taken down are not of his kingdom, but of other kingdoms.  Three Superpowers taken out of the way.  There won't be a war to remove them, because it's too simple.  Bankrupt their nations.  They will be taken down like this, the quickest and easiest way.  They will have no say or threat on the world stage but will have to submit to the 10 kings. 

Any one can believe that the 3 horns he takes down are out of his own kingdom, and that it will leave only 7 horns, but then that will be adding to scripture because it doesn't say 7 horns will receive power with the beast for one hour.  We mustn't get the horns and the heads mixed up.  They are separate.  I hope you can understand my reasoning.

 

 

 

 

Your premise is faulty because you want to dismiss a factual truth about the horns from Daniel 7:8, and then follow it up with faulty assumptions.  Once you deviate from the fact that the 3 horns come from the 10, everything that follows is wrong.  Daniel is seeing a vision, in which there are 10 horns, as he considers those 10 horns a little one rises up amongst them and three of the 10 are plucked up by the roots.  What you are trying to do is  say, those 3 that it says are not of the first horns like Daniel says.  I say, Daniel knows what he saw, and he doesn't see anything about other horns that are not part of the vision.  It's a vision.

Further compounding the problem is arguing another faulty premise based on assumption.  You seem to think that 3 of the horns being plucked up by the roots, or being subdued means they no longer exist or that they have been eliminated.  They haven't, Daniel does not say that they cease to exist, and neither does the angel in the explanation.  Maybe you're not familiar with what the word subdue means, but it is worth noting it has nothing to do with elimination.

 

verb (used with object), sub·dued, sub·du·ing.

to conquer and bring into subjection:Rome subdued Gaul.
to overpower by superior force; overcome.
to bring under mental or emotional control, as by persuasion or intimidation; render submissive.
to repress (feelings, impulses, etc.).
to bring (land) under cultivation:to subdue the wilderness.
to reduce the intensity, force, or vividness of (sound, light, color, etc.); tone down; soften.
 
 

Considering what the word subdued actually means, as opposed to the faulty impression being applied to it, there are far more plausible scenarios that don't involve altering what Daniel saw in the vision.  Could it be that these three kings subject themselves and their authority to the beast because they are convinced he has authority over them based on their religious beliefs?  Could it be they are muslims who see the little horn as their promised Madhi?  Or possibly 3 from a Judeo-Christian background that mistakenly belief he is the Messiah?

 

As for the heads and the horns, I don't have them mixed up at all.  There are 7 heads, and if you go back to the introduction of them in Revelation 12, you will see they have crowns when they are in the heavenly realm, and the horns do not.  When we see them again in Revelation 13 on earth, the heads no longer have crowns, they have blasphemous names on them, and the ten horns have the crowns.  According to Revelation 17, the heads are 7 mountains, and also 7 kings.  Since they don't have their crowns on earth anymore, maybe that is a better place to begin with the heads.  Why do you suppose that is?

God bless

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On 10/11/2019 at 12:12 AM, wingnut- said:

Your premise is faulty because you want to dismiss a factual truth about the horns from Daniel 7:8, and then follow it up with faulty assumptions.  Once you deviate from the fact that the 3 horns come from the 10, everything that follows is wrong.  Daniel is seeing a vision, in which there are 10 horns, as he considers those 10 horns a little one rises up amongst them and three of the 10 are plucked up by the roots.  What you are trying to do is  say, those 3 that it says are not of the first horns like Daniel says.  I say, Daniel knows what he saw, and he doesn't see anything about other horns that are not part of the vision.  It's a vision.

Further compounding the problem is arguing another faulty premise based on assumption.  You seem to think that 3 of the horns being plucked up by the roots, or being subdued means they no longer exist or that they have been eliminated.  They haven't, Daniel does not say that they cease to exist, and neither does the angel in the explanation.  Maybe you're not familiar with what the word subdue means, but it is worth noting it has nothing to do with elimination.

 

 

Hi Wingnut

When I first shared this post, I saw something happening in the world, and the scriptures here in Daniel and Rev, that I had been reading over and over for years, suddenly shed new light about these three horns.  If I am wrong, time will tell, but what I saw is definitely thought provoking, and gets us back into the scriptures to Analise and scrutinize every single word prophesied regarding this event that will be fulfilled to make the Word of God true down to every last word.

When the little horn comes out of the kingdom of the 10 horns, he has not been given full power yet.  He is rising up to fame.  His policies have to be admired and accepted before the world can give him their trust and blessing to take that high seat.

The 10 horns are of his kingdom.  They are not real kings, nor are they 10 leaders of any nation, but 10 wicked men who sit in the shadows and have an agenda to take over the whole world and keep all the precious things of the earth for themselves, including the souls of men.  They have a host also.  They control a network.  Their plan is to groom this little horn for his arrival to be their spokesman and to fulfill their agenda.  Bottom line is that they will give him all their support to pull off this great deception and manipulate the whole world into cutting any ties whatsoever with our creator the Lord of Hosts, and to replace him with this man who really thinks in his mind that he is god.  He is a deluded creature, and with Satan by his side, he pulls it off until our Lord intervenes and causes turmoil on his kingdom.

 

Can you honestly tell me that before this "little horn" rises to full power, there are no other horns besides the 10 in existence?  Are you telling me that there is no horn of the USA, or Russia, or China, or even Israel?  Are there no real kings, or presidents or prime-ministers that could possibly be in his way, and have had some type of power on the world stage, with a strong military defence?

Considering we don't know who these 10 horns are, because they are not real kings, and hide in the shadows, we would not even know if he "uprooted" any of his own men - because of their secrecy.  It would not be open news.

Therefore, what I see is that the three horns "before him" who are in existence at that time of his rising, are three world leaders outside of their pact which is very tight.

To uproot these three horns or subdue them, is to take away their power or position on the world stage....to cut off their voice and the military power that backs them.  In the end, all nations will submit to this man and his new laws because we know the scriptures.  But three horns who were highly regarded will be no more on the world stage, nor a threat to his kingdom, because he will do something big, that we will all see in the news and experience.  No horn (king) will get in his way.... therefore no one will be able to make war with this beast that leads the world into final destruction. 

So I see the three horns that were "before him" (in existence on the world stage), will have their power removed by him, and these three horns are not of his club, otherwise Revelation would say;


  Revelation 13:1   And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, seven horns and upon his horns ten seven crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

because    10 horns - 3 horns = 7.

but what I see is that 10 horns - 0 horns (of his own) = 10.

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9 minutes ago, Sister said:

If I am wrong, time will tell, but what I saw is definitely thought provoking, and gets us back into the scriptures to Analise and scrutinize every single word prophesied regarding this event that will be fulfilled to make the Word of God true down to every last word.

 

But you don't want to acknowledge these words from Daniel 7.

 

 It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

 

He has only spoken of 10 horns, 3 of the first are from the 10, no way around that.

 

14 minutes ago, Sister said:

because    10 horns - 3 horns = 7.

but what I see is that 10 horns - 0 horns (of his own) = 10.

 

Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

 

At least be consistent, you need to make up 5 new heads also, because 7-5=2.

 

God bless

 

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I keep hearing how we must follow John's chronology but what if we misread his timeline. take the trumps and the vials chapters 6- 11 and chapters 12- 19. The seven trump and vials run concurrently. Repeating the sme things already said in chapters 6- 11 with the content of chapters 12- 9. I will try and make sense of what is taking place once again. if you want to understand go to Zechariah 11 we are shown the two Shepherds one the Evil Shepherd anti-Christ and the other the Good Shepherd Christ. Clearly this is the time of the end. What are we shown? The Lord has two shepherd staffs one called Favor. This was a covenant the Lord entered into with the Gentile nations so they could not completely wipe out Israel. The Lord broke this staff and Gentiles have been coming through to attack apostate Israel Not understanding their own prophets and returned to the Lord has begun building a wall around her trying to stop the attacks. The second staff is the important staff as it is Unity. Unity between what is about to become the divided kingdom of Judah and the northern kingdom of Israel. Interesting enough when this division takes place the northern kingdom of Israel will have ten shepherds three of whom are plucked up leaving seven shepherds ruling what should have had ten kings and ten crowns. This is the end times and if apostate Israel is not the kingdom who has never ruled the world there must then be two kingdoms with ten crowns and 7 heads or what the Lord showed us through Zechariah is exactly what is going to take place. apostate Israel is the ten crowned 7 headed mystery Babylon.

The prophet Daniel told of the 70 Weeks of Years which deals with Israel, Daniels city and people. After apostate Israel is destroyed, judgment first to the Jew a thousand years later the Gentile armies come against the Millennial Temple following Satan and they are destroyed and we have the fulfillment of judgement first to the Jew and a thousand years later then to the Gentiles. 

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19 minutes ago, breathoflife said:

I keep hearing how we must follow John's chronology but what if we misread his timeline

 

You only hear that from those clinging to a theory that doesn't align with scripture, Revelation is no more chronological than any other prophetic writings.  What you have presented at this point in regards to the dividing of the kingdoms and the 2 staffs has merit.  What would really help with understanding your position is if you took your time laying it out, at least referencing the scripture you have derived it from.  You don't have to post the scripture, but book and chapter/s  would be most helpful.

I get lost in your long paragraphs, everything runs together on these old eyes, so if you could help me out by starting a thread on it and laying it out in a more readable fashion with the scripture references, it would be much appreciated.  There are some things you have already shown that I disagree with, specifically in regards to your take on the passages from Joel which I already responded to in whatever thread that was on.  That doesn't mean I am not interested in what you want to share.

 

19 minutes ago, breathoflife said:

Israel is the ten crowned 7 headed mystery Babylon.

 

I disagree with this, the AC is the beast out of the sea, not a nation.  The mother of harlots I see as a reference to Jerusalem and this is the woman riding the beast out of the sea or AC.

God bless

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