iamlamad Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, wingnut- said: You only hear that from those clinging to a theory that doesn't align with scripture, Revelation is no more chronological than any other prophetic writings. What you have presented at this point in regards to the dividing of the kingdoms and the 2 staffs has merit. What would really help with understanding your position is if you took your time laying it out, at least referencing the scripture you have derived it from. You don't have to post the scripture, but book and chapter/s would be most helpful. I get lost in your long paragraphs, everything runs together on these old eyes, so if you could help me out by starting a thread on it and laying it out in a more readable fashion with the scripture references, it would be much appreciated. There are some things you have already shown that I disagree with, specifically in regards to your take on the passages from Joel which I already responded to in whatever thread that was on. That doesn't mean I am not interested in what you want to share. I disagree with this, the AC is the beast out of the sea, not a nation. The mother of harlots I see as a reference to Jerusalem and this is the woman riding the beast out of the sea or AC. God bless Come on, Wingnut! The seals are numbered 1 to 7, the trumpets are numbered 1 to 7, the vials are numbered one to 7, the woes are numbered 1 to 3 - all this for sequencing - yet you imagine you must rearrange to fit some theory? Always remember, ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology will be proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, breathoflife said: I keep hearing how we must follow John's chronology but what if we misread his timeline. take the trumps and the vials chapters 6- 11 and chapters 12- 19. The seven trump and vials run concurrently. Repeating the sme things already said in chapters 6- 11 with the content of chapters 12- 9. I will try and make sense of what is taking place once again. if you want to understand go to Zechariah 11 we are shown the two Shepherds one the Evil Shepherd anti-Christ and the other the Good Shepherd Christ. Clearly this is the time of the end. What are we shown? The Lord has two shepherd staffs one called Favor. This was a covenant the Lord entered into with the Gentile nations so they could not completely wipe out Israel. The Lord broke this staff and Gentiles have been coming through to attack apostate Israel Not understanding their own prophets and returned to the Lord has begun building a wall around her trying to stop the attacks. The second staff is the important staff as it is Unity. Unity between what is about to become the divided kingdom of Judah and the northern kingdom of Israel. Interesting enough when this division takes place the northern kingdom of Israel will have ten shepherds three of whom are plucked up leaving seven shepherds ruling what should have had ten kings and ten crowns. This is the end times and if apostate Israel is not the kingdom who has never ruled the world there must then be two kingdoms with ten crowns and 7 heads or what the Lord showed us through Zechariah is exactly what is going to take place. apostate Israel is the ten crowned 7 headed mystery Babylon. The prophet Daniel told of the 70 Weeks of Years which deals with Israel, Daniels city and people. After apostate Israel is destroyed, judgment first to the Jew a thousand years later the Gentile armies come against the Millennial Temple following Satan and they are destroyed and we have the fulfillment of judgement first to the Jew and a thousand years later then to the Gentiles. The seven trump and vials run concurrently. NO THEY DON'T! That is human imagination! ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong. How can ANYONE compare 1/3 with one whole and imagine they are the same? How can anyone think, since John numbered the seals, the trumpets, the woes and the vials for sequencing then imagine the rest must be rearranged? In one small way I might agree with you: during the 1000 year reign, there is not going to be a divided Israel. You can take that to the bank. In fact, in Israel today there are some of the "lost" ten tribes who have found their way back to Israel. They certainly don't consider themselves as "lost" or divided. There will never again be a divided Israel with northern tribes and southern tribes or any other kind of division. Now, do you claim that those I see on video praying diligently at the wailing wall as "apostate?" Are they "apostate" from God? How could they be? They pray to Him daily! The truth is, they are only lost because they have not as yet discovered Jesus as their Messiah. On the other hand, perhaps you are talking about the many living in Israel that no longer even believe in God. I will agree, they are apostate. Edited October 12, 2019 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Come on, Wingnut! The seals are numbered 1 to 7, the trumpets are numbered 1 to 7, the vials are numbered one to 7, the woes are numbered 1 to 3 - all this for sequencing - yet you imagine you must rearrange to fit some theory? Good luck ever showing one time on any thread where I ever tried to rearrange the order by number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathoflife Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 Line them up and see for your self. One view is from heavens perspective and the other is from man's perspective. That's correct because apostate Israel will have been destroyed. Sorry there has never been 10 lost tribes talk about making something out of nothing. They also don'5t consider themselves to be Lo-Ammi but they remain in that condition, the apostate portion. Have you read the OT? What makes them apostate is their rejection of the Son. I know you hate the first 5 chapters of Isiah because it shows you are wrong in your understanding the Book of Revelation. The Book of Isaiah is dealing, as I keep saying, with the Israel who is apostate in the Last Days. But they are shown in their apostasy and in Isaiah 3 they tell you straight out it is because of their rejection of the Lord as shown in Isaiah 53. no one comes to the Father except through the Son. If they are not praying through the Son where are their prayers going? Not to the Father no matter how intense they may look. The many who seek to block any Jewish Christian from Aliyah. How their government came within one reading of a proposed bill banning Christians. These are not just those who have not found the Christ these quite probably will be part of that apostate portion accepting anti-Christ. Again look at the temple of anti-Christ and how it is filled with worshippers. The problem is the inner courts are filled with apostate Jews and the rest of the temple has Gentiles. But he is told only to measure those in the inner courts who are termed "worshippers." Anti-Christs temple, the apostate Jews in the inner courts of the priests and Israel filled with apostate anti-Christ worshipping Jews. The Lord asked Peter "WHo do you say I am?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathoflife Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 hours ago, wingnut- said: You only hear that from those clinging to a theory that doesn't align with scripture, Revelation is no more chronological than any other prophetic writings. What you have presented at this point in regards to the dividing of the kingdoms and the 2 staffs has merit. What would really help with understanding your position is if you took your time laying it out, at least referencing the scripture you have derived it from. You don't have to post the scripture, but book and chapter/s would be most helpful. I get lost in your long paragraphs, everything runs together on these old eyes, so if you could help me out by starting a thread on it and laying it out in a more readable fashion with the scripture references, it would be much appreciated. There are some things you have already shown that I disagree with, specifically in regards to your take on the passages from Joel which I already responded to in whatever thread that was on. That doesn't mean I am not interested in what you want to share. I disagree with this, the AC is the beast out of the sea, not a nation. The mother of harlots I see as a reference to Jerusalem and this is the woman riding the beast out of the sea or AC. God bless Sorry I get on a roll when I can speak about the Lord. how do you feel about OT prophecies? I have tried to get a couple of folks to understand they are the prophecies these End Times books are dealing with. If you go to Isaiah chapters 1- 5 you have the time of the end and it is not revealed in the same hidden manner as the Revelation. After you read the chapters you need to determine, if possible, when these prophecies are dealing with. That is easy because it is when the Lord has come on the Day of the Lord. The Lord is standing there in all His splendor and the apostate are fleeing from his presence. You are about to meet mystery Babylon and she is Jerusalem. Completely apostate, rich beyond measure and politically and militarily powerful. And all this while anti-Christ has been there did she get his mark or did he make an exception for apostate Israel. You know that for her to amass these things she would have had to take his mark. please let me know if you want me dealing with false, Elijah, prophet who counterfeits the prophet and prepares the way of anti-Christ. That can only be done, apostate Israel believes will provide the Fire from heaven Re. 13: 13 and solves the problem of no strange fire Le. 10: 11. The coming of anti-Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, breathoflife said: Sorry I get on a roll when I can speak about the Lord. how do you feel about OT prophecies? No need to apologize, I was just asking because I think what you have to share matters and would like to hear it. I think on many of these things we do agree already. I have learned many things regarding the end times over the years, but there are so many things that I do not know. I am always looking for missing pieces and I believe if we can come together as brothers and sisters should, and listen, receive, and allow the Holy Spirit to do His thing, we would understand a great deal more than we do. So, I am willing to discuss whatever you want to discuss. As for the OT prophecies, those are vital to understanding what the future holds. If one doesn't venture into the prophets writings, they are missing a wealth of necessary information. I look forward to discussing more in the future. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathoflife Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, wingnut- said: No need to apologize, I was just asking because I think what you have to share matters and would like to hear it. I think on many of these things we do agree already. I have learned many things regarding the end times over the years, but there are so many things that I do not know. I am always looking for missing pieces and I believe if we can come together as brothers and sisters should, and listen, receive, and allow the Holy Spirit to do His thing, we would understand a great deal more than we do. So, I am willing to discuss whatever you want to discuss. As for the OT prophecies, those are vital to understanding what the future holds. If one doesn't venture into the prophets writings, they are missing a wealth of necessary information. I look forward to discussing more in the future. God bless This is out of Deu. 32 it is we are told that it is going to be a witness against apostate Israel.The entire song has Israel's entire history and the Gentile Church gets two verses out of the entire song. 23 “I will heap calamities on them and spend my arrows against them. 24 I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague; I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust. 25 In the street the sword will make them childless; in their homes terror will reign. The young men and young women will perish, the infants and those with gray hair. It is the time judgment is going to be poured out on the apostate portion of Israel. If we looked on the battle it would seem to be men carrying out the destruction but in reality it is the Lord using them as His instruments of judgment. 26 I said I would scatter them and erase their name from human memory, 27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy, lest the adversary misunderstand and say, ‘Our hand has triumphed; the LORD has not done all this.’ ” 28 They are a nation without sense, there is no discernment in them. 29 If only they were wise and would understand this and discern what their end will be! 30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31 For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. 32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah. Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness. this removal from the memory of men has not taken place. The reason was the Lord wanted there to be no doubt who had done this, the Lord. Israel of that time all the way down through the ages has always had two streams one stream made up the apostate portion of Israel and the second stream were those who believed see Hebrews 11. Why is the Lord like this? They had taken for themselves a rock small r, this is anti-Christ. At the same time they rejectd the true Rock capital R who is Christ. This is the final act of apostasy she will commit she has fallen to being mystery Babylon. We are shown apostate Israel thousands of years as she is spiritually. their grapes and clusters are no different spiritually as Sodom and Gomorrah 33 Their wine is the venom of serpents, the deadly poison of cobras. 34 “Have I not kept this in reserve and sealed it in my vaults? 35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.” 36 The LORD will vindicate his people and relent concerning his servants when he sees their strength is gone and no one is left, slave or free. 37 He will say: “Now where are their gods, the rock they took refuge in, 38 the gods who ate the fat of their sacrifices and drank the wine of their drink offerings? Let them rise up to help you! Let them give you shelter! 39 “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. 40 I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear: As surely as I live forever, 41 when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me. 42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh: the blood of the slain and the captives, the heads of the enemy leaders.” 43 Rejoice, you nations, with his people,for he will avenge the blood of his servants; he will take vengeance on his enemies and make atonement for his land and people. 44 Moses came with Joshua son of Nun and spoke all the words of this song in the hearing of the people. 45 When Moses finished reciting all these words to all Israel, The Lord spoke to apostate Israel calling them a brood of vipers. The Lord has kept the understanding of this song where only He could know it until the prophetic clock him the right time and more and more is given until its all out and we can see what is actually happening. Again the charge of taking the small r rock' The Lord speaks of Himself in this manner. It is the Alpha and Omega the flashing sword from the Garden is now the sword of Judgment talking with you has been a refreshing blessing I look forward to hearing what you say and if you have anything that shows I have erred please show me I want to feed His lambs the best food I can. I am excited the Lord has raised us both up for this part of the journey. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 hours ago, wingnut- said: Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. At least be consistent, you need to make up 5 new heads also, because 7-5=2. Wingnut I don't see what your point is here? The 7 kings represent 7 kingdoms (hence the 7 heads) on the beast; 1. Egypt 2. Assyria 3. Babylon 4. Medo-Persia 5. Grecia 6. Rome 7. End time Rome. During the days of John, the first 5 kingdoms had already come and gone. kingdom no. 6 (old Rome) was ruling. We can't change the number of heads. The 10 horns come out of the 7th kingdom (7th head), the last one. That scripture you gave is confirming that the 7 mountains are the heads on the beast. It also shows us that the word "mountain" or "mount" symbolises "kingdoms" in some verses throughout the scriptures. We need to know this to understand God's lingo when interpreting. eg - Mount Sion = "kingdom" of Zion - in some cases. Referring to the spiritual mountain and not the physical. Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. My "holy kingdom" Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. The stone became a "a great kingdom" Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. The "kingdoms" shall drop down new wine (teachings) The "hills" = smaller kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 12 hours ago, wingnut- said: Good luck ever showing one time on any thread where I ever tried to rearrange the order by number. My point was this: when John used so many numbers for sequencing, why would anyone think the rest of his writing would be out of correct order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Sister said: Wingnut I don't see what your point is here? The 7 kings represent 7 kingdoms (hence the 7 heads) on the beast; 1. Egypt 2. Assyria 3. Babylon 4. Medo-Persia 5. Grecia 6. Rome 7. End time Rome. During the days of John, the first 5 kingdoms had already come and gone. kingdom no. 6 (old Rome) was ruling. We can't change the number of heads. The 10 horns come out of the 7th kingdom (7th head), the last one. That scripture you gave is confirming that the 7 mountains are the heads on the beast. It also shows us that the word "mountain" or "mount" symbolises "kingdoms" in some verses throughout the scriptures. We need to know this to understand God's lingo when interpreting. eg - Mount Sion = "kingdom" of Zion - in some cases. Referring to the spiritual mountain and not the physical. Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. My "holy kingdom" Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. The stone became a "a great kingdom" Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. The "kingdoms" shall drop down new wine (teachings) The "hills" = smaller kingdoms. Good post: "mountains" indeed are kingdoms with a king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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