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nobleseed

can someone have faith in the heart but not know in mind

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i have a friend who i was challenging about God but he says he does not know, but he told me every night he says God is in heaven and all is well and in the morning God is on earth (cant remember the rest of  it).  but the fact he does this shows to me he has some faith but his mind is not convinced.  is this what paul says in romans about those doing according to law but not knowing the law.  is it possible for someone to have faith and not know it.

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It's what we do with Jesus that matters. That's a conscious choice. These days most people have heard the Gospel. You've clearly talked to your friend about it and he has some conception of God. In a situation like that I don't think doing the law while not knowing it is applicable. It's important to keep in mind that sometimes people will say they believe in God to get a Christian off their back, or as a recent thread talked about people might say they're "spiritual but not religious". That's counterfeit and feels like someone who wants to appear spiritually clean without committing to Jesus. It's difficult to make an accurate assessment of where your friend stands from the perspective of someone who has never met them and only has what you've said to go on. I'd say press deeper. How do they feel about Jesus? Do they believe there's a need for salvation? What sort of characteristics does he attribute to God?

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So he is DOING rather than believing? Recall how many of the Pharisees are described, and how much Jesus emphasizes the heart rather than one's works, such as the sermon on the mount. Many people out there feed the poor and bow down to pray... But they take a picture of themselves working at the shelter, in order to show off and recieve praise from others. Many bow down and pray in public, but yet again, they do this out of pride rather than faith in God. That, or as good boy points, in belief that good works equal salvation.

Luke 17:7-10

"Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, 'Come along now and sit down to eat'? Won't he rather say, 'Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that, you may eat and drink'? Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'"

I would say it sounds like your friend has faith IN MIND rather than in his heart. If he wishes to grow closer to God, he must grow in the faith. Pray for him.

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Hi @nobleseed Good question. As Promises, Promises said...a definite faith in God is required. Hebrews 11 talks all about this. In this chapter, God lists the ones throughout history (scripture) who were men and women of faith. 

A personal relationship with Jesus Christ is necessary. A 'nod to God' is simply not enough. Iow, Salvation must be through JESUS only (not by just acknowledging there is a God.)

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

(Romans 10:13)

Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6)

He is the Sacrifice Lamb who was slain for us and "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." (Hebrews 9:22)

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9 hours ago, nobleseed said:

i have a friend who i was challenging about God but he says he does not know, but he told me every night he says God is in heaven and all is well and in the morning God is on earth (cant remember the rest of  it).  but the fact he does this shows to me he has some faith but his mind is not convinced.  is this what paul says in romans about those doing according to law but not knowing the law.  is it possible for someone to have faith and not know it.

This person does know who God is. Of course they are wrong because God is omnipresent all the time. 

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14 hours ago, nobleseed said:

i have a friend who i was challenging about God but he says he does not know, but he told me every night he says God is in heaven and all is well and in the morning God is on earth (cant remember the rest of  it).  but the fact he does this shows to me he has some faith but his mind is not convinced.  is this what paul says in romans about those doing according to law but not knowing the law.  is it possible for someone to have faith and not know it.

I don't think any of us completely understands the Lord's ways, yet.

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God is so much bigger than our ability to understand, that is why he tells us

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

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This is the beginning of inclusivism ,  something Rome teaches .     And it not true at all .

IF we do not confess with the mouth JESUS is LORD and from the heart believe in HIM ,     ITS ALL VAIN .

ITS all vain .   I repeat may no one go down this path .     IF JESUS is not acknwledgte by mouth as LORD and from the HEART this is believed .   THERE is no hope

they are still lost in sin  and have no hope .

Do not , I repeat , do not let anyone start to head in this direction .

READ romans , it explains it well .  

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