7 YEAR TRIBULATION?

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It didn't end in the First Century A.D.; it's still happening today and shall happen until the Lord returns.

Roger that bro!

It is still in effect and watching Israeli news reports it is getting even hotter as we speak...

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, Uriah said:

I seriously doubt ANYONE but Romans were EYE WITNESSES to events going on inside the temple. Josephus-certainly not!

Shalom, Uriah.

You can doubt all you want, but the priests' job was to provide sacrifice continually. They were there (until they were killed or taken captive), and any of the people could have watched as Roman troops entered the Temple courts. The very ENTRY of a Gentile into the Temple proper was a violation of God's Law and desecrated the Temple.

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An aquila (Latin for "eagle") was a prominent symbol used in ancient Rome, especially as the standard of a Roman legion. A legionary known as an aquilifer, or eagle-bearer, carried this standard. Each legion carried one eagle.

The eagle was extremely important to the Roman military, beyond merely being a symbol of a legion. A lost standard was considered an extremely grave occurrence, and the Roman military often went to great lengths to both protect a standard and to recover it if lost; for example, see the aftermath of the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, where the Romans spent decades attempting to recover the lost standards of three legions.
- Wikipedia on "aquila"

The Roman eagle standard was the banner used for a legion of Rome, which at the time of Caesar Augustus consisted of 6100 footmen and 726 horsemen, a contingency of 6826 infantry and cavalry, not to mention its generals. And, in 70 A.D., there were FOUR legions surrounding Jerusalem!

Cestius Gallus, who was the imperial legate of Syria, "brought in the Syrian army, based on Legion XII Fulminata and reinforced by auxiliary troops, to restore order and quell the revolt" in 66 A.D. ("First Jewish-Roman War" by Wikipedia.) Thus, that legion had such a standard.

There are many who believe that THIS "aquila" or "eagle" was the "idol" that would be set up in the Temple, giving the signal to evacuate the city and surrounding area. Whether it was or not, it is clear that the believing Jews left soon after and crossed the Jordan.

[breathoflife]

Sir Robert Anderson using the Jewish calendar of 30n days a month and 360 days a year with the Royal London Observatory and the were able to trace each of the sign posts the Prophet Daniel had given in the prophecy. Cyrus gave the command to rebuild Jerusalem etc on a Passover. Forty Nine years being used to accomplish that which ended on  Passover, From that Passover there would be a period of 62 Weeks of Years that began on Passover and ended on the Passover the Lord became our Passover Lamb. That totaled the 69 Weeks of Years from Passover with Cyrus' decree until the Passover of Christ, leaving One Week of Years left. There is a being coming who we know as anti-Christ who is going to be such a perfect counterfeit of Christ he would fool the Elect if they had not been  told before hand.  anti-Christ not only opposes Christ as I pointed out counterfeits the Christ, The beginning of the &0th Week of Years will begin when anti-Christ comes and presents Himself as the Lamb who is really a beast. It gets real interesting here. Ant-Christ does not just pop in and introduce himself and apostate Israel fall all over him. Something much greater will add to this delusion. The People are looking for someone to come before Messiah and we know that person is not a Prophet but one of the prophets everyone will recognize, the false prophet counterfeits Elijah. 

 

How great this counterfeit goes is any body's guess in somethings, Will the false Elijah challenge all the religions ? With what we are told about him this could be true. But lets concentrate on what we do know about this satanic masterpiece. We are told the false Elijah will seem to bring fire down from heaven now why would this be identified and none of the other lying signs and wonders and not mean for us to pay attention to this fact, and pay attention for good reason as we will see. We are told an interesting item about Christ and His counterfeit anti-Christ they are both coming as lightening. Now lightening may be just lightening or it could be the way men with no ability to understand it or to teach other might describe the indescribable. This is going to not only mimic the Chridt he will provide what anti-Christ needs at this point more than anything fire from heaven all other fire is said to be strange fire and temple service cannot take place boy would that upset anti-Christ The fire from heaven described as lightening will in the case of anti-Christ the false Shekinah Glory. Seven years to the Day the Lord comes in the true Shekinah Glory that He uses to defeat anti-Christ and the false prophet along with their 200,000,000 man demonic army of fallen angels.

The claim that this army is coming from China is an error. The Lord spoke of these days as being kike the Days of Noah. No disrespect to our Chinese friends and brothers in Christ. When anti-Christ arose out of the Abyss/ bottomless Pit he is shown to be king over the fallen angels who come with him and then the fallen angels held prisoner under the Euphrates are all being held as prisoners. This is the army that is so horrific men'. s hearts melt in the chest, who do things no ordinary man can do. With this army of angels he once more counterfeits the Christ who is coming with His Holy angels anti- Christ is coming with his unholy angels. Anti-Christ comes on Passover and seven years later The Christ comes on Passover and the Shekinah Glory of God and defeats anti-Christ  and the demonic army of fallen angels. Anti-Christ and the false prophet  are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Satan has been in heaven where he accuses the brethren day and night is taken prisoner in chains and put into the Abyss where anti-Christ was also held prisoner. 1,000 years until he is set loose to deceive the gentile nation who are called Gog and Magog

[Uriah]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

There are many who believe that THIS "aquila" or "eagle" was the "idol" that would be set up in the Temple, giving the signal to evacuate the city and surrounding area. Whether it was or not, it is clear that the believing Jews left soon after and crossed the Jordan.

Hi Retro

This is more proof that there is no documented proof of this fulfilling the prophecy of Jesus. As I remember there is a report of Roman soldiers setting the temple on fire because of the temple guards/Jewish soldiers who were barricaded inside Much more logical as well. What we mainly have is speculation and authors in a circle quoting one another.Therefore I am compelled to count it as yet future. No temple even needs to be built. Even the temple mount group's former leader said they won't build it because of what Zec. wrote-The BRANCH (Messiah) will be the one to build it.

Sooo...

An abomination

On a wing (border) of the temple...Daniel

In the Holy Place -seen....(Jesus)

As God sits in the temple of God...(Paul)

That can speak.....(John)

Four prophecies fulfilled at once!

 

 

[Retrobyter]

43 minutes ago, breathoflife said:

Sir Robert Anderson using the Jewish calendar of 30n days a month and 360 days a year with the Royal London Observatory and the were able to trace each of the sign posts the Prophet Daniel had given in the prophecy. Cyrus gave the command to rebuild Jerusalem etc on a Passover. Forty Nine years being used to accomplish that which ended on  Passover, From that Passover there would be a period of 62 Weeks of Years that began on Passover and ended on the Passover the Lord became our Passover Lamb. That totaled the 69 Weeks of Years from Passover with Cyrus' decree until the Passover of Christ, leaving One Week of Years left. There is a being coming who we know as anti-Christ who is going to be such a perfect counterfeit of Christ he would fool the Elect if they had not been  told before hand.  anti-Christ not only opposes Christ as I pointed out counterfeits the Christ, The beginning of the &0th Week of Years will begin when anti-Christ comes and presents Himself as the Lamb who is really a beast. It gets real interesting here. Ant-Christ does not just pop in and introduce himself and apostate Israel fall all over him. Something much greater will add to this delusion. The People are looking for someone to come before Messiah and we know that person is not a Prophet but one of the prophets everyone will recognize, the false prophet counterfeits Elijah. 

 

How great this counterfeit goes is any body's guess in somethings, Will the false Elijah challenge all the religions ? With what we are told about him this could be true. But lets concentrate on what we do know about this satanic masterpiece. We are told the false Elijah will seem to bring fire down from heaven now why would this be identified and none of the other lying signs and wonders and not mean for us to pay attention to this fact, and pay attention for good reason as we will see. We are told an interesting item about Christ and His counterfeit anti-Christ they are both coming as lightening. Now lightening may be just lightening or it could be the way men with no ability to understand it or to teach other might describe the indescribable. This is going to not only mimic the Chridt he will provide what anti-Christ needs at this point more than anything fire from heaven all other fire is said to be strange fire and temple service cannot take place boy would that upset anti-Christ The fire from heaven described as lightening will in the case of anti-Christ the false Shekinah Glory. Seven years to the Day the Lord comes in the true Shekinah Glory that He uses to defeat anti-Christ and the false prophet along with their 200,000,000 man demonic army of fallen angels.

The claim that this army is coming from China is an error. The Lord spoke of these days as being kike the Days of Noah. No disrespect to our Chinese friends and brothers in Christ. When anti-Christ arose out of the Abyss/ bottomless Pit he is shown to be king over the fallen angels who come with him and then the fallen angels held prisoner under the Euphrates are all being held as prisoners. This is the army that is so horrific men'. s hearts melt in the chest, who do things no ordinary man can do. With this army of angels he once more counterfeits the Christ who is coming with His Holy angels anti- Christ is coming with his unholy angels. Anti-Christ comes on Passover and seven years later The Christ comes on Passover and the Shekinah Glory of God and defeats anti-Christ  and the demonic army of fallen angels. Anti-Christ and the false prophet  are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Satan has been in heaven where he accuses the brethren day and night is taken prisoner in chains and put into the Abyss where anti-Christ was also held prisoner. 1,000 years until he is set loose to deceive the gentile nation who are called Gog and Magog

Shalom, breathoflife.

I truly am sorry to have to tell you this, but one should NEVER use the 30-days-per-month and the 360-days-per-year calculations. The idea that this is the "prophetic month" and the "prophetic year" is TOTALLY WRONG.

The Jewish calendar is NOT based on such values at all! The Jewish month is a true "moonth"; that is, it was recorded always by actual sighting of the first new moon after the sun hid it from view.  Sometimes, even the clouds got in the way of the actual sighting. And, there was a set of rules used to judge when the first day of the month should be.

The Jewish month is based upon the lunar cycle of 29.5 days/month. That's why some months are 29 days long and others are 30 days long. It's a MUCH more complicated system than what Sir Anderson was using. About every 3 years or so, there's a leap MONTH added. In such a year, there would be 13 months to rectify the beginning of the months with the beginning of the solar year.

Also, I've noticed that most give this "antichrist/beast" person FAR too much credit for end-times events. He'll be no more the opposite of the Messiah than haSatan is the opposite of Almighty God!

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Hi Retro

This is more proof that there is no documented proof of this fulfilling the prophecy of Jesus. As I remember there is a report of Roman soldiers setting the temple on fire because of the temple guards/Jewish soldiers who were barricaded inside Much more logical as well. What we mainly have is speculation and authors in a circle quoting one another.Therefore I am compelled to count it as yet future. No temple even needs to be built. Even the temple mount group's former leader said they won't build it because of what Zec. wrote-The BRANCH (Messiah) will be the one to build it.

Sooo...

An abomination

On a wing (border) of the temple...Daniel

In the Holy Place -seen....(Jesus)

As God sits in the temple of God...(Paul)

That can speak.....(John)

Four prophecies fulfilled at once!

 

 

Shalom, Uriah.

Hmmmm..... All that for such a LAME conclusion?! NO!

First of all, Daniel 9:27 CANNOT be fulfilled by the "prince that shall come." It MUST be fulfilled by the "Messiah" of verse 26.

Second, the Hebrew word "knaf" doesn't mean a "border!" It means a "wing" and more precisely, a "SPREAD-OUT wing."

Third, why are you even ATTEMPTING to merge four UNRELATED prophecies from different prophets into ONE INTERPRETATION??!!!

If you choose just to blow off my reasoning that I've taken MUCH time and CONSIDERATION for you to compile, then I'm done with you. I'm not looking for another "yes man" of the common twistings of Scripture; I'm looking for someone with a teachable spirit and a REAL DESIRE to get back to the simplicity of God's Word. Sorry to be so blunt, but you ticked me off.

[breathoflife]

Hi Roy, you will never guess this but I disagree with you on a few points. 

‘First, you are very certain that anti-Christ won’t counterfeit the Messiah. Do you have Scripture I can look to for that teaching.  I am curious because of all the ways Scripture shows him doing that very thing.  An example antra-Christ brought before us with the teaching that anti-Christ “was, is not now, and will be again in that same vein the Christ we are told “was, is, and will be again. The only difference being is not now about anti-christ  and is about the Christ. What does this mean about the two of them. We need to know what it means for Christ to be able to understand what is being said about anti-Christ. Christ was in the world as was anti-Christ. The will be again speaks of how both are coming back. Now the difference between them has to do with one being God and the other a created being. While Christ is omnipresent and is everywhere at one anti-Christ is not and can only be in one place at a time. Does Scripture tells us where anti-Christ is? It does, anti- Christ is being held prisoner in the Abyss/ Bottomless Pit the entrance to the Lake of Fire. Christ is not only here but is Seated at the father’s right hand.  That is just one of the ways he counterfeits the Christ.  

In don’t want to highjack this thread but the counterfeiting the false prophet is just amazing . The title he has gives us a clue to who he maybe counterfeiting. He is a prophet are we told the Messiah will be preceded by anyone, maybe a prophet / we know the Jewish people would not accept a Messiah without Elijah who is looked for at every Passover? Elijah! One of these the false prophet will seem to answer that and come as Elijah. If it stopped there it would be fascinating enough. I won’t go to deep in this If folks want to we can start another thread. False Elijah may or may not challenge  the other religions to prove whose god is god. But two things we do know is that false prophet is going to seem to bring fire down from heaven and you know why he must do so, any other Fire is strange fire and unacceptable for temple service. Anti-christ might not be happy about not being worshipped. The other is connect with the fire. The Lord spoke of anti-christ falling from heaven like lightening. We know the Lord is also coming as lightening, coincidence, I do not think so.so what is it? This is the way something is described that men have no way of explaining what it is, for anti-Christ it is the counterfeit Shekinah Glory and Christ’s is the real Shekinah Glory. Some big time counterfeiting in the last days. 

[Uriah]

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Uriah.

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Hmmmm..... All that for such a LAME conclusion?! NO!

Only as much as defying logic-Roman military cannot penetrate the temple due to guards/Jewish soldiers inside so they set it ablaze.  When the ashes cool and they enter and the HOLY PLACE was NO MORE!!! It is an impossible scenario for the interpretation you attempt, and you aren't the first.

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First of all, Daniel 9:27 CANNOT be fulfilled by the "prince that shall come." It MUST be fulfilled by the "Messiah" of verse 26

See above...the angel Gabriel speaks of the future while pivoting between different figures and events.  

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Second, the Hebrew word "knaf" doesn't mean a "border!" It means a "wing" and more precisely, a "SPREAD-OUT wing."

The KJV translates Strong's H3671 in the following manner: wing (74x), skirt (14x), borders (2x), corners (2x), ends (2x), feathered (2x), sort (2x), winged (2x), miscellaneous (8x).

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Third, why are you even ATTEMPTING to merge four UNRELATED prophecies from different prophets into ONE INTERPRETATION??!!!

Setting up an image/idol, when Jesus seemingly used the reference from Daniel interchangeably with the holy place (merging) and Paul speaking of the man of sin sitting "as God sits in the temple of God" (Holy Place) at the time of the end in Matt 24 (merging) and John speaking of events from the same time period when there will be an image that speaks (merged) THIS interpretation threads the needle(s). We shall see...

If you choose just to blow off my reasoning that I've taken MUCH time and CONSIDERATION for you to compile, then I'm done with you. I'm not looking for another "yes man" of the common twistings of Scripture; I'm looking for someone with a teachable spirit and a REAL DESIRE to get back to the simplicity of God's Word. Sorry to be so blunt, but you ticked me off.

Hi Retro

Don't be ticked off, please. Just remember that if two think exactly alike, only one is doing the thinking. Believe that iron sharpening proverb. I have learned from you about the idea of an ongoing tribulation since the first century. And you aren't alone in doing much research. Even in what I saw from 1859, scholars saw the weakness of the argument of the eagle and began proposing the Holy Place could mean the city, the land etc. because of this untenable position. Never worry about being blunt with me, I welcome criticism. More to follow

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Retro

Don't be ticked off, please. Just remember that if two think exactly alike, only one is doing the thinking. Believe that iron sharpening proverb. I have learned from you about the idea of an ongoing tribulation since the first century. And you aren't alone in doing much research. Even in what I saw from 1859, scholars saw the weakness of the argument of the eagle and began proposing the Holy Place could mean the city, the land etc. because of this untenable position. Never worry about being blunt with me, I welcome criticism. More to follow

Shalom, Uriah.

True, but if two are at least on the same page, then they can be a TEAM!

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

Only as much as defying logic-Roman military cannot penetrate the temple due to guards/Jewish soldiers inside so they set it ablaze.  When the ashes cool and they enter and the HOLY PLACE was NO MORE!!! It is an impossible scenario for the interpretation you attempt, and you aren't the first.

You're forgetting the time sequence! The Roman presence that triggered the escape of the believers was in 66 A.D! The FIRE that destroyed the Holy Place wasn't until 70 A.D!

Whether the Temple is present or not, it is the PLACE that God holds Holy!

2 Chronicles 7:12-22 (KJV)

12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him,

"I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice. 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place. 16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments; 18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.

19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; 20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations. 21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, 'Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?' 22 And it shall be answered, 'Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.'"

The house - the Temple - was built AT the PLACE! Haven't you ever seen how the LORD ("YHWH") put His name on the mountains of Israel just west of Jerusalem?

It is HIS Land! He has merely given the Land to the children of Israel for a perpetual, permanent dwelling place. He gave the Land to NO OTHER! These squatters who originated in Jordan and call themselves "Palestinians" are nothing of the sort! They don't belong on the mountains of Israel, conveniently called "the West Bank" to hide the fact that these mountains were given to Israel for a dwelling place!

[Uriah]

19 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

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True, but if two are at least on the same page, then they can be a TEAM!

Amen to that!

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You're forgetting the time sequence! The Roman presence that triggered the escape of the believers was in 66 A.D! The FIRE that destroyed the Holy Place wasn't until 70 A.D!

No, this doesn't change the fact that the Holy Place that Jesus spoke of was NO MORE.

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Whether the Temple is present or not, it is the PLACE that God holds Holy!

The house - the Temple - was built AT the PLACE! Haven't you ever seen how the LORD ("YHWH") put His name on the mountains of Israel just west of Jerusalem?

 

This is the same thing I told you about the writings from 1859. The author pointed out that people began changing what Jesus said to ... the land. or the temple mount, or the city etc.

Hi Retro

Yes the Christians heeded the words of Jesus and did not suffer the fate of the rest during the ensuing years and the carnage at the end.

But the Romans could NOT enter the Holy Place as everyone hearing Jesus would have understood Him-the Holy Place that is in the temple.....by the time the Romans came inside it was GONE!