bcbsr Posted August 15, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 415 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 606 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 353 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2019 The Parable of New Cloth on an Old Garment Matt 9:16; Mk 2:21; Lk 5:36 Luke 5:36 He also told a parable to them. "No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old." (web) Discussion Questions What is the patch? The new garment? The old? What are the two reasons why people don't do this analogous to? In what ways might Christians today be cutting pieces out of the new garment and patching them on to the old? In what way is the old worn out? It what occasions would you wear such a patched garment? A wedding? Comments Here Jesus is contrasting the old Mosaic covenant with the new covenant as foretold by the prophets and revealed in the New Testament. The old covenant is a performance-based salvation. One is saved if they live up to a certain level of performance. The new is a salvation-based performance. One is saved through the forgiveness of sins, which requires only faith in Christ's atoning work. And having been saved, God regenerates the person, causing them to live a lifestyle consistent with that of a child of God. The old covenant is made ineffective by man's innate sinful nature. And Israel's example also gives evidence of this. There are those who fail to keep God's standards, but then think that Christ came simply to help them become better people so that they can be justified by their performance. This is putting a new patch on an old garment. They have holes in their garments due to sin. Then they cut a patch out of the gospel and try to attach it to a performance-based salvation concept. This is particularly true of those of a "Hyper-Wesleyan" mindset. An example of this are those who say that salvation is obtained by faith as a free gift, but it must be maintained by one's performance or else lost. They will literally quote verses dealing with the old covenant and an apply them to the new, like: "If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done."Ez 33:13 That is the old covenant concept, not the new convenant concept. No one tears a patch from a brand new set of clothes And sews it on an old one, for everybody knows They end up being ruined the ones which are new And neither will the patch match the old one too The Law had its purpose and now it is fulfilled It brought conviction of our sin which is what God willed But now by grace we're saved through faith we cannot ask for more Let's not tear apart that grace to be justified by law. The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekoudah Posted August 15, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 302 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 624 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bcbsr said: The Parable of New Cloth on an Old Garment Matt 9:16; Mk 2:21; Lk 5:36 Luke 5:36 He also told a parable to them. "No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old." (web) Discussion Questions What is the patch? The new garment? The old? What are the two reasons why people don't do this analogous to? In what ways might Christians today be cutting pieces out of the new garment and patching them on to the old? In what way is the old worn out? It what occasions would you wear such a patched garment? A wedding? Comments Here Jesus is contrasting the old Mosaic covenant with the new covenant as foretold by the prophets and revealed in the New Testament. The old covenant is a performance-based salvation. One is saved if they live up to a certain level of performance. The new is a salvation-based performance. One is saved through the forgiveness of sins, which requires only faith in Christ's atoning work. And having been saved, God regenerates the person, causing them to live a lifestyle consistent with that of a child of God. The old covenant is made ineffective by man's innate sinful nature. And Israel's example also gives evidence of this. There are those who fail to keep God's standards, but then think that Christ came simply to help them become better people so that they can be justified by their performance. This is putting a new patch on an old garment. They have holes in their garments due to sin. Then they cut a patch out of the gospel and try to attach it to a performance-based salvation concept. This is particularly true of those of a "Hyper-Wesleyan" mindset. An example of this are those who say that salvation is obtained by faith as a free gift, but it must be maintained by one's performance or else lost. They will literally quote verses dealing with the old covenant and an apply them to the new, like: "If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done."Ez 33:13 That is the old covenant concept, not the new convenant concept. No one tears a patch from a brand new set of clothes And sews it on an old one, for everybody knows They end up being ruined the ones which are new And neither will the patch match the old one too The Law had its purpose and now it is fulfilled It brought conviction of our sin which is what God willed But now by grace we're saved through faith we cannot ask for more Let's not tear apart that grace to be justified by law. The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources But to properly understand what Jesus was saying one must look at both sides of the equation. You can't put an old cloth into a new garment BUT likewise you can't put a new cloth into an old garment. The sword has 2 edges after all. So that means you can't take away the righteousness of the old testament to replace it with grace. But neither can you attempt to put a human righteousness (OT standard) onto grace. So then there exists old and new garments. Mat. 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure things new and old. It is a grievous error to relinquish all old garments to the flames in favour of an exclusivity of new garments. And vice versa. So there are 2 kinds of garments that continue. Righteousness and holiness. These are different and remain separate. They are separate standards...what a man can do in and of himself (like loving others as himself) AND...what God can do through a man (to love as Jesus loved). They who deny this distinction...and continuation of both standards ...deny the word of God. Edited August 15, 2019 by Pekoudah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 15, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,989 Topics Per Day: 0.49 Content Count: 48,687 Content Per Day: 11.89 Reputation: 30,342 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2019 2 hours ago, bcbsr said: The Parable of New Cloth on an Old Garment Matt 9:16; Mk 2:21; Lk 5:36 Luke 5:36 He also told a parable to them. "No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old." (web) Discussion Questions What is the patch? The new garment? The old? What are the two reasons why people don't do this analogous to? In what ways might Christians today be cutting pieces out of the new garment and patching them on to the old? In what way is the old worn out? It what occasions would you wear such a patched garment? A wedding? Comments Here Jesus is contrasting the old Mosaic covenant with the new covenant as foretold by the prophets and revealed in the New Testament. The old covenant is a performance-based salvation. One is saved if they live up to a certain level of performance. The new is a salvation-based performance. One is saved through the forgiveness of sins, which requires only faith in Christ's atoning work. And having been saved, God regenerates the person, causing them to live a lifestyle consistent with that of a child of God. The old covenant is made ineffective by man's innate sinful nature. And Israel's example also gives evidence of this. There are those who fail to keep God's standards, but then think that Christ came simply to help them become better people so that they can be justified by their performance. This is putting a new patch on an old garment. They have holes in their garments due to sin. Then they cut a patch out of the gospel and try to attach it to a performance-based salvation concept. This is particularly true of those of a "Hyper-Wesleyan" mindset. An example of this are those who say that salvation is obtained by faith as a free gift, but it must be maintained by one's performance or else lost. They will literally quote verses dealing with the old covenant and an apply them to the new, like: "If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done."Ez 33:13 That is the old covenant concept, not the new convenant concept. No one tears a patch from a brand new set of clothes And sews it on an old one, for everybody knows They end up being ruined the ones which are new And neither will the patch match the old one too The Law had its purpose and now it is fulfilled It brought conviction of our sin which is what God willed But now by grace we're saved through faith we cannot ask for more Let's not tear apart that grace to be justified by law. The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources Isn't there two parables here? Mark 2: 18-22 and Matthew 5:17? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted August 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2019 10 hours ago, pinacled said: I was reminded of the distinction of outer and inner garments. The inner garment is seemless and whole. While it was the outer garment that was divided and rendered. Also reminded of the beauty of instruction given Mosheh in Torah concerning garments. Especially where spiritual armor is concerned. 12 stones upon the breast plate of righteousness. Blessings Always Good point pinacled! When I read the first post, it seemed like (and is) sound reasoning. Your point reminds us to always look at both sides of any subject and especially the ones where Christ is using metaphors in a parable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted August 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 875 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 757 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2019 Old cloth, even old wine skins. Israel forfeited their relationship with God because they could not BELIEVE Jesus Christ was their messiah. So in comes Paul the apostle to the gentiles. Israel is on the back burner now until the fullness of gentiles come to Christ. We are the Body of Christ. We will be raptured. Then God turns to Israel and the book of Revelation begins. Jacobs trouble. But ISRAEL will be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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