Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots

[WilliamL]

On 8/15/2019 at 1:18 PM, George said:

If you do some research, you'll find dozens of quotes from the church fathers concerning a Triune God.  

Without a doubt. However, the issue became complicated with the introduction of the word "person," as in, for example, "three Persons of the Godhead from eternity."  These concepts were systematized beginning at Nicaea, whereas beforehand they had been open to discussion.

Man is made up of body, soul, and spirit (plus other things), but no one speaks of himself as being three persons. (Unless he has a multiple personality disorder. )  And there's the rub when speaking of a "three-Person Godhead": the term incites thoughts of multiple gods, not One God, which is why Jews have long accused Christians of being polytheists.

On the other hand the Kabbalists had no problem at all with the Christian plurality in the Divine, because they've long held such a view, believing that such concepts were merely mental constructs to help our pea-brains conceive the various attributes of the One God.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, Footprint said:

While on the Isle of Patmos, God allowed John to look into the future. And he saw something with "great admiration" as recorded In Revelation 17:6. God allowed John to see the Great Whore, the Spiritual Mother of Harlots. John's wonder was NOT coming from the standpoint of desire, but rather of showing intense shock or surprise joined with indignation at her.

The Admiration translation is off via the KJVV/English. It actually means Great Wonderment or astonishment.

#2295 θαῦμα thauma {thos'-mah} apparently from a form of G2300; TDNT - 3:27,316; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) a wonderful thing, a marvel 2) wonder 2a) to wonder [with great wonder i.e.] exceedingly

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Apparently from a form of G2300; wonder (properly concrete; but by implication abstract):—admiration.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So it means wonderment, not what we understand admiration to be....the admiration as they saw it was more akin to being astonished at what they saw. Too me and my parents gay means happy, today it means something entirely different, words evolve, we have to be keen to this. So he didn't admire her in the manner we think of as admiration which is respect, he wondered at her, as the verse actually says, so it's an ASTONISHED WONDERMENT !!

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. {We know he doesn't ADMIRE her....so does this sound more reasonable ? He Wondered with Great Wonderment. } I think you are on the right track when you describe it as a "SHOCK". 

On 8/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, Footprint said:

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Rome is known to be built upon seven hills. Rome was said to have been founded when Romulus and Remus, twin sons of Mars, ended up at the foot of the hill Palatine and founded the city. The other six hills are Capitoline (the seat of government), Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine.

I will just reply to this section to save space, but I am familiar with the scriptures Rev. 17:1-9 and the RCC stuff people cite, which is in error IMHO, just like the Islamic angle is in error. So if this is indeed the point you are trying to bring forth, it doesn't fit the Harlot at all.

As per the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE SPIRIT with THREE Personas or personhoods. 

On 8/15/2019 at 2:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Interestingly enough the word "Mystery" is the name of the Mother Of Harlots...


Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The name MYSTERY is Describing WHO THE HARLOT is, it is one of Four Descriptors. Mystery, (COMMA) Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abomination of the land. This DESCRIBES to us who the Harlot is. Harlots wore a headband describing them for their customers. This describes who she is, she is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time !! 

Mystery describes the many Mystery Underground Religions that came forth from her and eventually became Secret Cults, until the modern times when people openly worship Satan. Rev. 17:7 says the Angel is about to EXPLAIN the Mystery....did everyone miss the explanation ? Its there in verses 8-18 if you know what to look for. 

Babylon the Great describes where All False Religion was born, or at its zenith. 

Mother of Harlots describes Semiramis, the mother and wife of Nimrod, who birthed these False Religions.

Abomination of the earth describe All False Religion, God hates them !!

On 8/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, Footprint said:

God is pleading to come out of her...

The Harlot is Dead via Rev. 17:16, the Anti-Christ or Beasts 10 Kings KILL HER OFF. 

Rev. 18 is about the Government Beast "SHE RIDES until they destroy her and replace her with the False Prophet" who will demand BEAST WORSHIP, not Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. etc. worship. 

On 8/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, Footprint said:

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
[5] For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

God calls Israel  (the 1/3 who repented ) to "COME OUT OF HER", so Babylon stands for the Whole World's Government Structure under Satan. The WORLD is who God is Judging, not the Raptured Church who is in Heaven or the 1/3 Jews who repented. Not even the Remnant Church on earth who repented after the Rapture, they are the Martyrs under the Altar of the 5th Seal whom the Beast is killing. In Rev. 7 we can see that God HOLDS UP the 7th Seal which is the 7 Judgment Trumpets, until the 144,000 can safely make it to the Petra/Bozrah area.

The Merchants are of this world are the WHOLE WORLD, Rev. 16:19 tells us this, God sees everyone that came against Him at Armageddon as Babylon the Great....It's right there in big bold letters. And Vial number 6 tells us who they are....The Kings of the WHOLE WORLD are gathered unto Armageddon.

This chapter starts at the First Seal....its the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments judging the World {Babylon} over a 42 month period of time.

On 8/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, Footprint said:

The question becomes: What is the true church, and what should we be looking for?

Since the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION.....not the Church, I don't get the point sir. The Church will be in Heaven whilst Rev. 17 is happening anyway. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Admiration translation is off via the KJVV/English. It actually means Great Wonderment or astonishment.

#2295 θαῦμα thauma {thos'-mah} apparently from a form of G2300; TDNT - 3:27,316; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) a wonderful thing, a marvel 2) wonder 2a) to wonder [with great wonder i.e.] exceedingly

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Apparently from a form of G2300; wonder (properly concrete; but by implication abstract):—admiration.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So it means wonderment, not what we understand admiration to be....the admiration as they saw it was more akin to being astonished at what they saw. Too me and my parents gay means happy, today it means something entirely different, words evolve, we have to be keen to this. So he didn't admire her in the manner we think of as admiration which is respect, he wondered at her, as the verse actually says, so it's an ASTONISHED WONDERMENT !!

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. {We know he doesn't ADMIRE her....so does this sound more reasonable ? He Wondered with Great Wonderment. } I think you are on the right track when you describe it as a "SHOCK". 

I will just reply to this section to save space, but I am familiar with the scriptures Rev. 17:1-9 and the RCC stuff people cite, which is in error IMHO, just like the Islamic angle is in error. So if this is indeed the point you are trying to bring forth, it doesn't fit the Harlot at all.

As per the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE SPIRIT with THREE Personas or personhoods. 

The name MYSTERY is Describing WHO THE HARLOT is, it is one of Four Descriptors. Mystery, (COMMA) Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abomination of the land. This DESCRIBES to us who the Harlot is. Harlots wore a headband describing them for their customers. This describes who she is, she is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time !! 

Mystery describes the many Mystery Underground Religions that came forth from her and eventually became Secret Cults, until the modern times when people openly worship Satan. Rev. 17:7 says the Angel is about to EXPLAIN the Mystery....did everyone miss the explanation ? Its there in verses 8-18 if you know what to look for. 

Babylon the Great describes where All False Religion was born, or at its zenith. 

Mother of Harlots describes Semiramis, the mother and wife of Nimrod, who birthed these False Religions.

Abomination of the earth describe All False Religion, God hates them !!

The Harlot is Dead via Rev. 17:16, the Anti-Christ or Beasts 10 Kings KILL HER OFF. 

Rev. 18 is about the Government Beast SHE RIDES until they destroy her and replace her with the False Prophet who will demant BEAST WORSHIP, not Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. etc. worship. 

God calls Israel  (the 1/3 who repented ) to "COME OUT OF HER", so Babylon stands for the Whole World's Government Structure under Satan. The WORLD is who God is Judging, not the Raptured Church who is in Heaven or the 1/3 Jews who repented. Not even the Remnant Church on earth who repented after the Rapture, they are the Martyrs under the Altar of the 5th Seal. In Rev. 7 we can see that God HOLDS UP the 7th Seal which is the 7 Judgment Trumpets, until the 144,000 can safely make it to the Petra/Bozrah area.

The Merchants are of this world, the WHOLE WORLD, Rev. 16:19 tells us this, God sees everyone that came against Him at Armageddon as Babylon the Great....Its right there in big bold letters. And Vial number 6 tells us who they are....The Kings of the WHOLE WORLD are gathered unto Armageddon.

This chapter starts at the First Seal....its the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments judging the World {Babylon} over a 42 month period of time.

Since the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION.....not the Church, I don't get the point sir. The Church will be in Heaven whilst Rev. 17 is happening anyway. 

Can we just follow the WORD and forget all the human imaginations? Follow what John actually wrote!

 

⁷ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

¹⁸ And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Do we know WHAT "great city?" Yes, for John has previously told us:

^{Rev. 11:8} And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

sitteth upon many waters  Many people groups are involved with this woman.

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication Leaders of nations have become intoxicated with this woman's lies

the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication They all believe she is putting forth TRUTH.

the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication  What exact is her "fornication?" 

The Beast and False prophet will make Jerusalem their home during the last 42 months of the week. From Jerusalem will come the greatest deception ever foisted upon human beings.  John wrote that the whole world will be deceived - all but those whose names are written in the book.

Jerusalem, the city God wanted to show the world how great it is to serve Him - and in the days of Solomon actually did - will be the very same city that deceives the entire world.

[Sister]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Can we just follow the WORD and forget all the human imaginations? Follow what John actually wrote!

 

⁷ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

¹⁸ And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Do we know WHAT "great city?" Yes, for John has previously told us:

^{Rev. 11:8} And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

sitteth upon many waters  Many people groups are involved with this woman.

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication Leaders of nations have become intoxicated with this woman's lies

the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication They all believe she is putting forth TRUTH.

the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication  What exact is her "fornication?" 

The Beast and False prophet will make Jerusalem their home during the last 42 months of the week. From Jerusalem will come the greatest deception ever foisted upon human beings.  John wrote that the whole world will be deceived - all but those whose names are written in the book.

Jerusalem, the city God wanted to show the world how great it is to serve Him - and in the days of Solomon actually did - will be the very same city that deceives the entire world.

That great city which the woman sits upon is not Jerusalem, but all the nations and peoples of the world.  That great city is called ......Babylon.  City of confusion.  That city has become so great, and so wicked that her sins have multiplied and reach up to heaven.

Yes our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem - because Jerusalem was also serving..... Babylon.

Jeremiah 51:49   As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

Babylon is at the heart of all wickedness, because this city has always hated God, hated his people, hated the prophets, and especially hated our Lord Jesus Christ.  Babylon is responsible for all the death's of the innocent and the righteous, for inequity and has corrupted all the nations.  Babylon hates anyone who declares her wickedness, who preaches the Lord Jesus, but in truth, therefore Babylon hates his seed.

 

Babylon is Satan's city and the harlot is Satan's woman (his system).  His unfair system rules over all the kingdoms and nations of the earth.

That great city that reigns over the kings of the earth is Satan's city - Babylon.  His city will be destroyed.

Revelation 18:21   And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

 

Jeremiah 51:6   Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

Jeremiah 51:7   Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

 

  Isaiah 14:4   That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Jesus was killed by those serving Babylon.  Today, all who serve and dwell in Babylon hate the saints.  This "great city" is not just just Jerusalem but the whole earth.  The whole earth has become as Sodom and Egypt.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Sister

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

That great city which the woman sits upon is not Jerusalem, but all the nations and peoples of the world.  That great city is called ......Babylon.  City of confusion.  That city has become so great, and so wicked that her sins have multiplied and reach up to heaven.

Yes our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem - because Jerusalem was also serving..... Babylon.

Jeremiah 51:49   As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

Babylon is at the heart of all wickedness, because this city has always hated God, hated his people, hated the prophets, and especially hated our Lord Jesus Christ.  Babylon is responsible for all the death's of the innocent and the righteous, for inequity and has corrupted all the nations.  Babylon hates anyone who declares her wickedness, who preaches the Lord Jesus, but in truth, therefore Babylon hates his seed.

 

Babylon is Satan's city and the harlot is Satan's woman (his system).  His unfair system rules over all the kingdoms and nations of the earth.

That great city that reigns over the kings of the earth is Satan's city - Babylon.  His city will be destroyed.

Revelation 18:21   And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

 

Jeremiah 51:6   Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

Jeremiah 51:7   Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

 

  Isaiah 14:4   That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Jesus was killed by those serving Babylon.  Today, all who serve and dwell in Babylon hate the saints.  This "great city" is not just just Jerusalem but the whole earth.  The whole earth has become as Sodom and Egypt.

Hi Sister,

All valid points and I agree. It all started at Babylon and has passed down through the centuries, there's nothing new under the sun. Another thing I've considered that makes sense; that in a number of places Babylon could be a code word for Rome. At Patmos I don't think John would be writing insulting and disparaging things about Rome, because when his writing were discovered it wouldn't be a pleasant thing for him or those that read and had copies of his writings. Do we see the spirit of Babylon passed down through the historical centuries and in the RCC and elsewhere today?

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Can we just follow the WORD and forget all the human imaginations? Follow what John actually wrote!

 

⁷ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

¹⁸ And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Do we know WHAT "great city?" Yes, for John has previously told us:

You write that on every other post it seems. I am following the same word you are but coming to a different conclusion....like you thinking the Seals were opened 2000 years ago, that ain't happenin' with me anytime soon. We both read the same bible verses. So you might want to cut back on that line, it doesn't mean you get it per se brother.  The Angel indeed says he will tell us the Mystery of The Woman AND the Beast she rides. They are two seperate "Entities". 

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Do we know WHAT "great city?" Yes, for John has previously told us:

^{Rev. 11:8} And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

sitteth upon many waters  Many people groups are involved with this woman.

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication Leaders of nations have become intoxicated with this woman's lies

the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication They all believe she is putting forth TRUTH.

A "GREAT CITY" is lingo for Great Cities, there were many Great Cities, Rome, Damascus, Babylon, Jerusalem, so you pick and choose to try and steer the prophecy to where you want it to go without doing what good Eschatologists must do, account for ALL THE CLUES !! You can't half step on the clues.

FOR EXAMPLE: The MANY WATERS = Nations, Peoples, Multitudes and tongues. What covers that are better ? The RCC {Christianity} or ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME ? Well of course the latter has been in every nation, in every tribe, in every tongue/language, in every nation ever formed, even Israel and the USA's Bible belt, whilst the RCC is not in those Arab Countries for the most part. Jerusalem can't be in those Nations and all of the world can't be in Jerusalem, its just bad eschatology brother. 

The kings/Leaders of the World serve False gods and thus Satan....In Luke 4 we see that the Devil offers Jesus ALL THE KINGDOMS of the Whole World, because it was his to do as he so pleased with !! The World is Satan's Domain. He is the god of this world. The Inhabitants {PEOPLES} have been bewitched by Satan the liar into worshiping all things other than the real God. They are DRUNK with her excess, with self, with perversions, with all things save the true God. 

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication  What exact is her "fornication?" 

FALSE RELIGION......God abhors people worshiping ANY God but him. He's a jealous God. 

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The Beast and False prophet will make Jerusalem their home during the last 42 months of the week. From Jerusalem will come the greatest deception ever foisted upon human beings.  John wrote that the whole world will be deceived - all but those whose names are written in the book.

Jerusalem, the city God wanted to show the world how great it is to serve Him - and in the days of Solomon actually did - will be the very same city that deceives the entire world.

That's just not the case, you are reading something into scriptures that isn't there brother. He's going to CONQUER not DECEIVE after the 3.5 year mark, you are conflating what's coming and when !! 

THAT GREAT CITY = Babylon, as it says on her head, thus Rev. 17:18 says THE WOMAN YOU SAW, thus what did he see ? Babylon on forehead......and thus Babylon is code for The Whole World according to Rev. 16:19, because God states that He sees the "Nations He defeats as Babylon the Great" and all we have to do is look back at vial number 6 to see who these "Nations" are, it says they are the Kings of the WHOLE EARTH, so the Nations He defeats are the Nations of the Whole Earth, so Babylon = The Whole World whom God is judging !! We can put the scriptures there, will that help brother ?

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts {Jerusalem/Earthquake/Second Coming}, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. {{ The NATIONS FELL....Cities used to be Dominant, like Rome, Babylon, Damascus etc. etc. hence the Cities of the Nations fell means all the Great End Time Powers, of the WHOLE WORLD, see Below. }}

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So who is Babylon ? Well it tells us right here, if we just put down our thoughts of grandeur, we can see it. God says the NATIONS He defeats at Armageddon = Babylon the Great, thus He gives them His Great Wrath !! BOOM, BOOM, BOOM........Well who were they ? Vial number 6 tells us, they are the Kings of the WHOLE EARTH !!

It just takes detective work man. Its right there in print who Babylon is. You take a narrative and try and force it to fit brother.  

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

The author of the former sealed book of Revelation is not John, the author is the Most High God Almighty, Who gave the book unto JESUS to break the seven seals in a great and wonderful celestial ceremonial, full of guests, inclusive John (Rev.chapters 4&5),  to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John. Rev.1:v.1

That said, what you wrote above it does not fall upon John, but upon God, Who is the Author of the book of Revelation. So you must judged if your thought and words are righteous or not.  

No question the whole Bible was inspired by God and penned by man, but that's wasn't my point. My point was I suspect Babylon in places in Revelation is a code for Rome. If that's the case, of which I'm not claiming but suspect, the Holy Spirit instructed John to write mystery Babylon. As you're aware, the apostles were persecuted and martyred by Rome at the time. We know God was in control then as He is now. We also know their faith became weak at times, Peter's thrice denials as one example. You have the Apostle Paul out of fear being let out a window to escape, you have all the apostles in Acts in a locked room cowering and afraid, etc. 

[Sister]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Sister,

All valid points and I agree. It all started at Babylon and has passed down through the centuries, there's nothing new under the sun. Another thing I've considered that makes sense; that in a number of places Babylon could be a code word for Rome. At Patmos I don't think John would be writing insulting and disparaging things about Rome, because when his writing were discovered it wouldn't be a pleasant thing for him or those that read and had copies of his writings. Do we see the spirit of Babylon passed down through the historical centuries and in the RCC and elsewhere today?

Hi Dennis

We have on this earth the kingdom of light, and the kingdom of darkness.  It comes down to just two kingdoms.

The kingdom of darkness only cares for the material things of this world.  It's built on lies and gives no peace.  At the heart of it, people slave and yearn for the material things this world can offer.  It's a dog eat dog world with no fairness.  The strong eat the weak in the end.

The kingdom of light cares only for the truth, and the laws of that kingdom are not according to man's laws, but according to God's law.  Jesus came to give us that light.  He came to reprove the darkness and show us how to come out of the mindset of the world and enter into God's glorious kingdom.  Without the light, we cannot see that the love of this world leads us into destruction.

 John 7:7   The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

 John 15:19   If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
 

No, he is not speaking of Rome, but if you can understand, all the cities and kingdoms and nations of the earth are ruled by Satan. This world as a whole is Satan's kingdom. The kingdom of darkness is his system in the way the world is run and operates.

It doesn't matter where we were born, or what culture and religion we practice, all are born in this kingdom of darkness because of the nature of sin.  Not all are born in Rome, but all are in the mindset of the world.  Jesus sent his angel warning us to come out of Babylon.  Babylon is the same world Jesus called us to come out of. 

Revelation 18:4   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Put all the nations together and it's one great big city, and all belong the kingdom of darkness.  It's Satan's city.  Babylon. The great city.  We cannot jump out of the world like Jesus said, but we can change our mindset and care for the things above, and adopt Christ's spirit.  By doing this we spiritually come out of the kingdom of darkness and enter into the kingdom of light.

The kingdom of darkness likes to distract  us with many things giving us sport, entertainment, music, politics, business, etc, etc. The stage is set and we like to follow and get involved. We have made men our hero's and turned them into idols. We also unknowingly worship objects, ....things made with man's hands, and spend our whole lives trying to acquire as much things as possible.  Whatever we treasure and put first in our heart becomes our god.  Christ knows all tables have been corrupted.  Man has been corrupted with bribes since the beginning.  We cannot trust man who is full of sin and filled with the spirit of the world, but we can trust Christ, what he tells us because he is without sin, could never be bribed, and qualified to lead us out of this great city called Babylon if we only take heed of his warnings.

There are many Christians still caught up in the world, that love the world, and the world love them.  We cannot remain luke-warm and if we think that Babylon is only Rome, then we have missed the message that Christ gave us of the bigger picture.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You write that on every other post it seems. I am following the same word you are but coming to a different conclusion....like you thinking the Seals were opened 2000 years ago, that ain't happenin' with me anytime soon. We both read the same bible verses. So you might want to cut back on that line, it doesn't mean you get it per se brother.  The Angel indeed says he will tell us the Mystery of The Woman AND the Beast she rides. They are two seperate "Entities". 

A "GREAT CITY" is lingo for Great Cities, there were many Great Cities, Rome, Damascus, Babylon, Jerusalem, so you pick and choose to try and steer the prophecy to where you want it to go without doing what good Eschatologists must do, account for ALL THE CLUES !! You can't half step on the clues.

FOR EXAMPLE: The MANY WATERS = Nations, Peoples, Multitudes and tongues. What covers that are better ? The RCC {Christianity} or ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME ? Well of course the latter has been in every nation, in every tribe, in every tongue/language, in every nation ever formed, even Israel and the USA's Bible belt, whilst the RCC is not in those Arab Countries for the most part. Jerusalem can't be in those Nations and all of the world can't be in Jerusalem, its just bad eschatology brother. 

The kings/Leaders of the World serve False gods and thus Satan....In Luke 4 we see that the Devil offers Jesus ALL THE KINGDOMS of the Whole World, because it was his to do as he so pleased with !! The World is Satan's Domain. He is the god of this world. The Inhabitants {PEOPLES} have been bewitched by Satan the liar into worshiping all things other than the real God. They are DRUNK with her excess, with self, with perversions, with all things save the true God. 

FALSE RELIGION......God abhors people worshiping ANY God but him. He's a jealous God. 

That's just not the case, you are reading something into scriptures that isn't there brother. He's going to CONQUER not DECEIVE after the 3.5 year mark, you are conflating what's coming and when !! 

THAT GREAT CITY = Babylon, as it says on her head, thus Rev. 17:18 says THE WOMAN YOU SAW, thus what did he see ? Babylon on forehead......and thus Babylon is code for The Whole World according to Rev. 16:19, because God states that He sees the "Nations He defeats as Babylon the Great" and all we have to do is look back at vial number 6 to see who these "Nations" are, it says they are the Kings of the WHOLE EARTH, so the Nations He defeats are the Nations of the Whole Earth, so Babylon = The Whole World whom God is judging !! We can put the scriptures there, will that help brother ?

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts {Jerusalem/Earthquake/Second Coming}, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. {{ The NATIONS FELL....Cities used to be Dominant, like Rome, Babylon, Damascus etc. etc. hence the Cities of the Nations fell means all the Great End Time Powers, of the WHOLE WORLD, see Below. }}

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So who is Babylon ? Well it tells us right here, if we just put down our thoughts of grandeur, we can see it. God says the NATIONS He defeats at Armageddon = Babylon the Great, thus He gives them His Great Wrath !! BOOM, BOOM, BOOM........Well who were they ? Vial number 6 tells us, they are the Kings of the WHOLE EARTH !!

It just takes detective work man. Its right there in print who Babylon is. You take a narrative and try and force it to fit brother.

You write that on every other post it seems. I am following the same word you are but coming to a different conclusion  Wow. Yes, do you come to a different conclusion because you ignore what is written. Well, maybe you don't ignore it, rather, you explain it away with human reasoning.

Can we reason together? There is or will be ten nations. Right after the man of sin turns Beast, He takes out 3 of the ten, leaving seven nations with seven kings: then he becomes the 8th king, of the seven but over the seven  When John tell us of "his kingdom" as in " the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness " it will be over these 7 nations that he rules. 

John saw the woman seated on top of this beast, which represents his kingdom. Remember, he will live in Jerusalem for most of his 42 months. And from that city will deceive all the nations of the world. When John said "the woman" is "that great city" he knew exactly what to write. It is TRUTH. It needs you human reasoning added. Jerusalem, the city that was suppose to display God's goodness to the world ends up deceiving the world.

Nations, Peoples, Multitudes and tongues  She deceives the entire world. How better to say it that what John wrote? She directly controls the 7 nations of his kingdom, but she deceives the entire world.

"That great city" is defined in John's same book as "the great city..."  not many, ONE (1) of Jerusalem.  You of all people should know that if a man is to imitate Christ he would come to Jerusalem, NOT ANY OTHER city in the world. As Jesus said, a prophet must be killed IN Jerusalem.

What you are missing: John is not talking about history here but FUTURE. It will be what is happening RIGHT THEN: Forget all the false religions of the world. That is not what John is discussing: He is discussing THE BEAST and the deception that will come from him and the false prophet living in Jerusalem. People that imagine it is the Vatican could not be further from the truth. All those billions lost in false religion will be deceived by the Beast and False prophet and they will turn their worship to him.

its just bad eschatology brother.   No, it is truth: but it just don't fit your preconceived theories. John is really not talking about the nations except for the deception.  The Beast is not going to go to the Vatican! He is going to go to Jerusalem. Would Jesus go to the Vatican? You have got to be kidding! Jesus said that a prophet must be killed in Jerusalem - so that is where He went.

FALSE RELIGION.  Yes, glad you brought that up: John is talking about the MOTHER of false religions: the Beast will deceive THE ENTIRE WORLD! The Catholics have not come close. Neither has Hinduism or Buddhism. But the Beast and false prophet will be in a class by themselves - deceiving the entire world's population save those whose names are written in heaven.

you are reading something into scriptures that isn't there brother.  Oh, really? I read that the woman is "that great city," yet you come up with a way to ignore what is really written. I chose to believe exactly what is written.

He's going to CONQUER not DECEIVE after the 3.5 year mark  How can you come up with this stuff? Before the midpoint, no one will know who the Antichrist will be - not until he is revealed. So all the conquering AND the deceiving will be during the last 42 months. It cannot be otherwise.  John did not see him rise up until after the midpoint. The false prophet will not show up until after the midpoint. The image and mark will not be created until after the midpoint.  i wonder, do you ever really follow what is written without having to rewrite it?

the "Nations He defeats as Babylon the Great"  Sorry, wrong again. Chapter 18 is about the destruction of JERUSALEM or "that great city." The beast is going to try and wip ISRAEL off the map, not the Vatican! Not other cities. The war or battle of Armageddon will  be fought in Israel, not some other nation.  The Beast and his armies will do some of the work of destroying Jerusalem; God's earthquake will do the rest.

The Whole World whom God is judging  Now, finally, I can agree: the great earthquake of the 7th vial will destroy the cities of the world. But take this to heart: the 70th week is to judge ISRAEL. But some of Israel's judgments will be world wide judgments. You might say God gets two birds with one stone.

that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.  Where do you think these Eastern kings are bound for: the cities of the world? NO! To Israel! I suspect it will be all the "STAN" nations east of the river.

So who is Babylon ? Well it tells us right here yes, when you add human reasoning to avoid believing what is written. Babylon is Jerusalem - but when she is destroyed, all the cities of teh world will be destroyed with her.

What about the kings of the whole earth? They are the kings to throw in with the Beast for that last "hour" to wipe Israel off the map! Again I remind you, Armageddon is in ISRAEL, not any other place.

You are I are just going to continue to disagree. You reason around the world, I believe the word as written.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

No question the whole Bible was inspired by God and penned by man, but that's wasn't my point. My point was I suspect Babylon in places in Revelation is a code for Rome. If that's the case, of which I'm not claiming but suspect, the Holy Spirit instructed John to write mystery Babylon. As you're aware, the apostles were persecuted and martyred by Rome at the time. We know God was in control then as He is now. We also know their faith became weak at times, Peter's thrice denials as one example. You have the Apostle Paul out of fear being let out a window to escape, you have all the apostles in Acts in a locked room cowering and afraid, etc. 

Dennis, just believe what is written! Look at John's final verse in Rev. 17.