Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots

[Sister]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Can we reason together? There is or will be ten nations. Right after the man of sin turns Beast, He takes out 3 of the ten, leaving seven nations with seven kings: then he becomes the 8th king, of the seven but over the seven  When John tell us of "his kingdom" as in " the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness " it will be over these 7 nations that he rules. 

iamlamad

The 7 heads on the beast are kingdoms.  Each kingdom ruled for a very long time and had more than one king.  How many kings (rulers) did Egypt have?, and Assyria?, and Babylon?, and Medo Persia?, and Rome?  The only exception is Greece (at that time).  They all had a succession of kings during their reign, and even though their kingdoms lost their power, they still exist today producing even more kings.  So we can't say there have been only 7 kings, and the Son of Perdition makes 8.  It doesn't gel with all the kings one after another ruling those empires throughout history.

Rome had many rulers, but in the latter days, that same kingdom becomes a mixed kingdom (iron and clay) and will end up with 10 kings ruling that kingdom from behind the scenes.  It's this 7th head (kingdom) that becomes an 8th kingdom.  It came out of the 7th kingdom.  It will morph into something else.  It will change it's policies and laws.  It will stripped it's own system naked and introduce a completely new one. 

The 10 horns are on the 7th head.  10 leaders arising from the 7th kingdom all at once (in the latter days). The man of sin doesn't take out 3 of his own, but 3 other kings who are in his way so that his 10 kings can rule and change the laws unhindered. The 10 are his man-power.  His backup.  He cannot do it alone without their help.  They own the system, control the money, and all the upper echalons of society who control the armies and sway the worlds opinion.

Daniel saw 10 horns without crowns.  He saw them come up and exist before they were given power. He saw them treading down everything in their path as they were rising.  In Revelation it shows them once they have received power, hence the 10 crowns.  All spring from the 7th head (7th kingdom), and morphs into an 8th kingdom, not 8th king.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Sister

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You write that on every other post it seems. I am following the same word you are but coming to a different conclusion  Wow. Yes, do you come to a different conclusion because you ignore what is written. Well, maybe you don't ignore it, rather, you explain it away with human reasoning.

Can we reason together? There is or will be ten nations. Right after the man of sin turns Beast, He takes out 3 of the ten, leaving seven nations with seven kings: then he becomes the 8th king,

FULL STOP....From the 8th King on you are in error. The 8th King is the Scarlet Beast Apollyon, who is now in the bottomless pit but was over the Mediterranean Sea Region from Egypt to Rome, he was the prince of Persia who resisted Michael/God in Daniel 10. He is of all 7 because he is a Demon, the Seven Heads are the Seven Kingdoms who ruled over the Region/Israel. Thus the 7 Kings who have Fallen are all the Kings at the Helm when each Kingdom falls. We know 5 had fallen....we know Rome fell, so each had a King at the helm when they fell...that's simple math right ? So why did God REDUCE the Kingdoms to Kings THAT FELL ? Because He wants us to know the last Beast will both ARISE & FALL unlike any other Beast thus he himself is THE BEAST. His name is the name of A MAN !! ONE MAN is the Beast, not a Kingdom this time. Im dropping nuggets here. 

 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

  When John tell us of "his kingdom" as in " the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness " it will be over these 7 nations that he rules.

Six have fallen, the Last Kingdom is the Beast System Kingdom, the Whole World is judged and taken down. Satan is placed in the pit, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are cast into hellfire.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

John saw the woman seated on top of this beast, which represents his kingdom. Remember, he will live in Jerusalem for most of his 42 months.

No, that's what you say, nowhere in the bible does it say he will live in Jerusalem for 42 Months. He can have a palace there without staying in the palace continually or there can be a "LIVING IMAGE" of him somehow placed in the Temple, and maybe in every worshipping place in the whole world for all I know. We are just given Israels viewpoint. 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

And from that city will deceive all the nations of the world.

This is errant eschatology brother, he DECEIVES the MANY before his 42 Months as the Beast, why does a Conqueror have to deceive anyone once he goes forth Conquering ? You've got it all jumbled up.

 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

When John said "the woman" is "that great city" he knew exactly what to write. It is TRUTH. It needs you human reasoning added. Jerusalem, the city that was suppose to display God's goodness to the world ends up deceiving the world.

No sir, that's your conjecture. Sister is telling you the same thing as I am, but Iamlamad already knows the deal.....except what you are pushing just isn't factual brother, it doesn't tie in. Here's what you have done, you read this SOMEWHERE long ago, and you then try to conform the scriptures to your beliefs, that's not the way Eschatology or Prophecy works. I am not a slave to my ideas, 5 years ago I was, and I saw nothing but men's traditions, the same place you got that from, the same place the RCC peddlers get their beliefs from, the same place the Islamic horde guys get their understandings from, other men. 

If I have shown you once I have shown you 15 times who Babylon is via "THE WORD" as per Rev. 16:19 and then the 6th Vial. Nary a word in reply.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Nations, Peoples, Multitudes and tongues  She deceives the entire world. How better to say it that what John wrote? She directly controls the 7 nations of his kingdom, but she deceives the entire world.

Leaving off other clues right ? She has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands. Why did John/Jesus/God point to BOTH SETS of God's peoples ? THINK MAN !! Because He wanted us to know it was the Harlot Religion's that killed them all !! Not just Saints of old and not just Christians !! So now put that with her being in every Nation, of every tongue etc. etc. and that can ONLY be All False Religion of ALL TIME. The RCC wasn't even around until 1600 or so years ago, Jerusalem is not all over the World !! It only fits All False Religion. The 7 Nations is erroneous, SIX HAVE FALLEN by this time, you try and say that since three Kings will fall that leaves 7 Nations, the 10 Kings are all from the E.U. to start with, ONE NATION under the Beast = the E.U. It's not 10 Sectional Regions.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

"That great city" is defined in John's same book as "the great city..."  not many, ONE (1) of Jerusalem.  You of all people should know that if a man is to imitate Christ he would come to Jerusalem, NOT ANY OTHER city in the world. As Jesus said, a prophet must be killed IN Jerusalem.

What you are missing: John is not talking about history here but FUTURE. It will be what is happening RIGHT THEN: Forget all the false religions of the world. That is not what John is discussing: He is discussing THE BEAST and the deception that will come from him and the false prophet living in Jerusalem. People that imagine it is the Vatican could not be further from the truth. All those billions lost in false religion will be deceived by the Beast and False prophet and they will turn their worship to him.

The CODE WORD is Babylon brother, we see in Rev. 16:19 what it means. The False Religious Harlot is what's being Judged, SEE Verse 1. God even says in verse 17 he places it in THEIR HEARTS to do His will !! Put it together man, the Beast DEMANDS WORSHIP, thus all Religions are DESTROYED, this is easy pickings brother. The 10 Kings in league with the Beast DESTROY the Harlot [religions] and thus she is JUDGED !! You are trying way too hard to make a square peg fit in a round hole brother. You have zeal, but like Paul you need to see a little better brother, SLOW DOWN, LOOK AROUND. 

It's not the RCC...its not Jerusalem, Rome or even an Islamic horde, however Islam is the LARGEST PORTION of the Harlot, but remember, the Harlot is DESTROYED/BURNED/KILLED OFF !!

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

its just bad eschatology brother.   No, it is truth: but it just don't fit your preconceived theories. John is really not talking about the nations except for the deception.  The Beast is not going to go to the Vatican! He is going to go to Jerusalem. Would Jesus go to the Vatican? You have got to be kidding! Jesus said that a prophet must be killed in Jerusalem - so that is where He went.

The bible explains itself brother...........Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

So let's go through this, The Harlot {False Religions} are JUDGED HERE....See that ? The Angel says in verse 1 she sits on MANY WATERS !! Notice what the angel does here ? The same thing he did in verse 18, he refers back to THE VISION, "The Waters which you saw" just like the Woman you saw is that Great City in verse 18. 

The 10 Kings who give their Kingdoms to the Beast kill off all False Religion {the Harlot}, they don't destroy Jerusalem or Rome or the RCC. They kill off all False Religion because God placed it in their hearts to do his will. 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

FALSE RELIGION.  Yes, glad you brought that up: John is talking about the MOTHER of false religions: the Beast will deceive THE ENTIRE WORLD! The Catholics have not come close. Neither has Hinduism or Buddhism. But the Beast and false prophet will be in a class by themselves - deceiving the entire world's population save those whose names are written in heaven.

Its a Metaphor False Religion, not even a metaphor in reality, think about it, ALL FALSE RELIGIONS = Harlotry right ? 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

you are reading something into scriptures that isn't there brother.  Oh, really? I read that the woman is "that great city," yet you come up with a way to ignore what is really written. I chose to believe exactly what is written.

 

I am showing you THE VISION.....Babylon on her forehead, that is how Harlots were identified. It says Babylon the Great right ? 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He's going to CONQUER not DECEIVE after the 3.5 year mark  How can you come up with this stuff? Before the midpoint, no one will know who the Antichrist will be - not until he is revealed. So all the conquering AND the deceiving will be during the last 42 months. It cannot be otherwise.  John did not see him rise up until after the midpoint. The false prophet will not show up until after the midpoint. The image and mark will not be created until after the midpoint.  i wonder, do you ever really follow what is written without having to rewrite it?

Ummmm NO....Read Daniel 9:24-27, he makes a 7 year Agreement with MANY {Including Israel} and in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK {with 42 Months left} he reneges on his Agreements and that is when Jesus RELEASES THE BEAST with the First Seal to go forth Conquering. All of the First Four Seals cover the Beasts actions over the 42 month period. He makes an AGREEMENT......Then he's REVEALED at the Midway point by his actions/Jesus allows him to GO FORTH. The rest of the way we will see a man of brute force, he only tries to TRICK those he can't get at, the Jews in Petra from this point on, Jesus forewarned them however.  You think the Seals have been opened !! Thus it has a ripple effect on the rest of your thinking brother.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

the "Nations He defeats as Babylon the Great"  Sorry, wrong again. Chapter 18 is about the destruction of JERUSALEM or "that great city." The beast is going to try and wip ISRAEL off the map, not the Vatican! Not other cities. The war or battle of Armageddon will  be fought in Israel, not some other nation.  The Beast and his armies will do some of the work of destroying Jerusalem; God's earthquake will do the rest.

Nope......God isn't destroying Jerusalem brother, Jesus is going to reign there for 1000 years. Chapter 18 is about the Destruction of the World's Economies via the Seals, Trumpets and Vial Judgments !! According to you he's in Jerusalem for 42 months, so he could have just wiped it off the map from the start. Rev. 18 is THE GOVERNMENT BEAST side of the equation. 

If you look at the first 10 verses you can see it go down in order. REMEMBER, verse 1 starts with the First Seal and Seals 1-6 are opened almost simultaneous. So all 6 are opened at the same time. So Rev. 18 starts on day 1261. and then THIS ENSUES:

Verse 2 says Babylon the great is fallen....it has become a Habitation of DEVILS....Who did I say was cast out of Heaven on day 1261 and at the 6th Seal ? Satan and his demonic minions, Apollyon is released from the pit at the 1st Woe, so THE EARTH......Babylon.....is a habitation of all the Devils !! 

Verse 3 speaks of her excess, the merchants who sold out to excess and sin etc. etc. Then in verse 4 God tells Israel or the 144,000 to "COME OUT OF HER" or Babylon (The World) lest she receives of Babylons JUDGMENT !! This is where we see THE WOMAN Fleeing from the Dragon in Rev. 12:17 !! They all start with the FIRST 6 SEALS being opened bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, BOOM....then the 7th Seal must be held up until the 144,000 {ALL ISRAEL} makes it to the safety of the Petra/Bozrah area God has designed for them like unto a sheepfold. 

Verse 5 says her sins have reached heaven....WELL....Whose sin filled up the bowls of God's Wrath ? MANKIND ON EARTH !! It's pretty simple stuff. God is going to reward her or JUDGE HER here. These are the Beast Governments, the Harlot Religions have already been judged save the Beast Worship of the Anti-Christ.

Her plagues come in ONE DAY {DOTL....ONE DAY = 3.5 Years]. It says in verse 8 she is burned, well yes, the first Trumpet burns 1/3 of the trees and ALL the grasses. In verse 9 the kings cry and wail when she {Babylon/World} burns, but the same Kings REJOICED when the Harlot burned !! This IS NOT the Harlot, she's Dead, she is All False Religion. 

In ONE HOUR her Judgment is come....how long is ONE HOUR ? Well according to Rev. 17:12 it equals 42 months !! WATCH Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The Beast rules 42 Months right ? This Judgment lasts the same 42 Months !! Thus its the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments !! Amen. 

He sees THOSE NATIONS as Babylon the Great, I know where its fought, in Miggedo, thus Armageddon. 

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The Whole World whom God is judging  Now, finally, I can agree: the great earthquake of the 7th vial will destroy the cities of the world. But take this to heart: the 70th week is to judge ISRAEL. But some of Israel's judgments will be world wide judgments. You might say God gets two birds with one stone.

Israel HAS TO REPENT BEFORE the 70th Week can come to pass, so says the scriptures brother.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.  Where do you think these Eastern kings are bound for: the cities of the world? NO! To Israel! I suspect it will be all the "STAN" nations east of the river.

So who is Babylon ? Well it tells us right here yes, when you add human reasoning to avoid believing what is written. Babylon is Jerusalem - but when she is destroyed, all the cities of teh world will be destroyed with her.

Simple PLAIN SPEAK Brother. God says Babylon THE GREAT. Not me.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What about the kings of the whole earth? They are the kings to throw in with the Beast for that last "hour" to wipe Israel off the map! Again I remind you, Armageddon is in ISRAEL, not any other place.

You are I are just going to continue to disagree. You reason around the world, I believe the word as written.

This is my forte brother......God Bless

Edited August 22, 2019 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

FULL STOP....From the 8th King on you are in error. The 8th King is the Scarlet Beast Apollyon, who is now in the bottomless pit but was over the Mediterranean Sea Region from Egypt to Rome, he was the prince of Persia who resisted Michael/God in Daniel 10. He is of all 7 because he is a Demon, the Seven Heads are the Seven Kingdoms who ruled over the Region/Israel. Thus the 7 Kings who have Fallen are all the Kings at the Helm when each Kingdom falls. We know 5 had fallen....we know Rome fell, so each had a King at the helm when the fell...that's simple math right ? So why did God REDUCE the Kingdoms to Kings THAT FELL ? Because He wants us to know the last Beast will both ARISE & FALL unlike any other Beast thus he himself is THE BEAST. His name is the name of A MAN !! ONE MAN is the Beast, not a Kingdom this time. Im dropping nuggets here. 

 

Six have fallen, the Last Kingdom is the Beast System Kingdom, the Whole World is judged and taken down. Satan is placed in the pit, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are cast into hellfire.

No, that's what you say, nowhere in the bible does it say he will live in Jerusalem for 42 Months. He can have a palace there without staying in the palace continually or there can be a "LIVING IMAGE" of him somehow placed in the Temple, and maybe in every worshipping place in the whole world for all I know. We are just given Israels viewpoint. 

This is errant eschatology brother, he DECEIVES the MANY before his 42 Months as the Beast, why does a Conqueror have to deceive anyone once he goes forth Conquering ? You've got it all jumbled up.

 

No sir, that's your conjecture. Sister is telling you the same thing as I am, but Iamlamad already knows the deal.....except what you are pushing just isn't factual brother, it doesn't tie in. Here's what you do, you read this SOMEWHERE long ago, and you try to conform the scriptures to your beliefs, that not the way Eschatology or Prophecy works. I am not a slave to my ideas, 5 years ago I was, and I saw nothing but men's traditions, the same place you got that from, the same place the RCC peddlers get their beliefs from, the same place the Islamic horde guys get their understandings from, other men. 

If I have shown you once I have shown you 15 times who Babylon is via "THE WORD" as per Rev. 16:19 and then the 6th Vial. Nary a word in reply.

Leaving off other clues right ? She has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her. Why did John/Jesus/God point to BOTH SETS of God's peoples ? THINK MAN !! Because He wanted us to know it was Harlot Religion that killed them all !! Not just Saints of old and not just Christians !! So now put that with her being in every Nation, of every tongue etc. etc. and that can ONLY be All False Religion of ALL TIME. The RCC wasn't even around until 1600 or so years ago, Jerusalem is not all over the World !! It only fits All False Religion. The 7 Nations is erroneous, SIX HAVE FALLEN by this time, you try and say that since three Kings fell that leaves 7 Nations, the 10 Kings are all from the E.U. to start with, ONE NATION under the Beast = the E.U.

The CODE WORD is Babylon brother, we see in Rev. 16:19 what it means. The False Religious Harlot is what's being Judged, SEE Verse 1. God even says in verse 17 he places it in THEIR HEARTS to do His will !! Put it together man, the Beast DEMANDS WORSHIP, thus all Religions are DESTROYED, this is easy pickings brother. The 10 Kings in league with the Beast DESTROY the Harlot [religions] and thus she is JUDGED !! You are trying way too hard to make a square peg fit in a round hole brother. You have zeal, but like Paul you need to see a little better brother, SLOW DOWN, LOOK AROUND. 

Its not the RCC...its not Jerusalem, Rome or even an Islamic horde, however Islam id the LARGEST PORTION of the Harlot, but remember, the Harlot is DESTROYED/BURNED/KILLED OFF !!

The bible explains itself brother...........Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

So let's go through this, The Harlot {False Religions} are JUDGED HERE....See that ? The Angel says in verse 1 she sits on MANY WATERS !! Notice what the angel does here ? The same thing he did in verse 18, he refers back to THE VISION, "The Waters which you saw" just like the Woman you saw is that Great City in verse 18. 

The 10 Kings who give their Kingdoms to the Beast kill off all False Religion {the Harlot}, they don't destroy Jerusalem or Rome or the RCC. They kill off all False Religion because God placed it in their hearts to do his will. 

Its a Metaphor False Religion, not even a metaphor in reality, think about it, ALL FALSE RELIGION = Harlotry right ? 

I am showing you THE VISION.....Babylon on her forehead, that is how Harlots were identified. It says Babylon the Great right ? 

Ummmm NO....Read Daniel 9:24-27, he makes a 7 year Agreement with MANY {Including Israel} and in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK {with 42 Months left} he reneges on his Agreements and that is when Jesus RELEASES THE BEAST with the First Seal to go forth Conquering. All of the First Four Seals cover the Beasts actions over the 42 month period. He makes an AGREEMENT......Then hes REVEALED at the Midway point by his actions. The rest of the way will be a man of brute force, he only tries to TRICK those he can't get at, the Jews in Petra from this point on, Jesus forewarned them however.  You think the Seals have been opened !! Thus it has a ripple effect on the rest of your thinking brother.

Nope...God isn't destroying Jerusalem brother, Jesus is going to reign there for 1000 years. Chapter 18 is about the Destruction of the World's Economies via the Seals, Trumpets and Vial Judgments !! According to you hes in Jerusalem for 42 months, so he could have just wiped it off from the start. Rev. 18 is THE GOVERNMENT BEAST side of the equation. 

If you look at the first 10 verses you can see it go down in order. REMEMBER, verse 1 starts with the First Seal and Seals 1-6 are opened almost simultaneous. So all 6 are opened at the same time. So Rev. 18 starts on day 1261. and then THIS ENSUES:

Verse 2 says Babylon the great is fallen....it has become a Habitation of DEVILS....Who did I say was cast out of Heaven on day 1261 and the 6th Seal ? Satan and his demonic minions, Apollyon is released from the pit at the 1st Woe, so THE EARTH......Babylon.....is a habitation of all the Devils !! 

Verse 3 speaks of her excess, the merchants who sold out to excess and sin etc. etc. Then in verse 4 God tells Israel or the 144,000 to "COME OUT OF HER" or Babylon lest she receives of Babylons JUDGMENT !! This is where we see THE WOMAN Fleeing from the Dragon in Rev. 12:17 !! They all start with the FIRST 6 SEALS being opened bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, BOOM....then the 7th Seal must be held up until the 144,000 {ALL ISRAEL} makes it to the safety of the Petra/Bozrah area God has designed for them like unto a sheepfold. 

Verse 5 says her sins have reached heaven..........WELL....Whose sin filled up the bowls of Gods Wrath ? MANKIND ON EARTH !! Its pretty simple stuff. God is going to reward her or JUDGE HER here. These are the Beast Governments, the Harlot Religions have already been judged save Beast Worship.

Her plagues come in ONE DAY {DOTL....ONE DAY = 3.5 Years]. It says in verse 8 she is burned, well yes, the first Trumpet burns 1/3 of the trees and ALL the grasses. In verse 9 the kings cry and wail when she {Babylon/World} burns, but the same Kings REJOICED when the Harlot burned !! This IS NOT the Harlot, shes Dead, she is All False Religion. 

In ONE HOUR her Judgment is come....how long is ONE HOUR ? Well according to Rev. 17:12 it equals 43 months !! WATCH Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The Beast rules 42 Months right ? This Judgment lasts the same 42 Months !! Thus its the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments !! Amen. 

He sees THOSE NATIONS as Babylon the Great, I know where its fought. 

Israel HAS TO REPENT BEFORE the 70th Week can come to pass, so says the scriptures brother.

Simple PLAIN SPEAK Brother. God says Babylon THE GREAT. Not me.

This is my forte brother......God Bless

If I have shown you once I have shown you 15 times who Babylon is via "THE WORD" as per Rev. 16:19 and then the 6th Vial. Nary a word in reply.

¹⁹ And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

How funny you are! Again John wrote "great city" and you must explain it away! RM, why not just BELIEVE IT?  I did not reply because your theory is simply not truth.

¹² And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

¹³ And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

¹⁴ For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

This is preparation by the devil for the Battle of Armageddon. Do you see "Babylon" anywhere in these three verses?  It is not there. This is not talking about spiritual harlotry in any way: it is the devil preparing the way for the great battle. Remember this verse?

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

This is again talking about ISRAEL and Jerusalem and the gathering of the nations to attempt to wipe Israel off the map.  Jerusalem will be attacked! People will be carried off as slaves.  They will set fire to Jerusalem - anything that will burn.

The 8th King is the Scarlet Beast Apollyon  Wake up, RM! We have to use a little common sense here - a thing that seems lacking on these threads. A king is not a spirit nor is an evil spirit a king. You have this very wrong. (Jesus did call Satan "the prince of this world" as he was and still is the spiritual leader of earth.)  It will be the man of sin - A MAN, not a spirit - that turns into the Beast. When he declared that he was the God of the Jews - he opened himself up for possession. As soon as Satan was cast down, he possessed the man of sin who then became the Beast.  Before the man of sin entered the temple, few if any knew he would become the Antichrist Beast.  You have the Antichrist Beast doing things before John saw him rise up and before he was given his 42 months.. That is faulty reasoning.   Out of time.

Edited August 22, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

FULL STOP....From the 8th King on you are in error. The 8th King is the Scarlet Beast Apollyon, who is now in the bottomless pit but was over the Mediterranean Sea Region from Egypt to Rome, he was the prince of Persia who resisted Michael/God in Daniel 10. He is of all 7 because he is a Demon, the Seven Heads are the Seven Kingdoms who ruled over the Region/Israel. Thus the 7 Kings who have Fallen are all the Kings at the Helm when each Kingdom falls. We know 5 had fallen....we know Rome fell, so each had a King at the helm when the fell...that's simple math right ? So why did God REDUCE the Kingdoms to Kings THAT FELL ? Because He wants us to know the last Beast will both ARISE & FALL unlike any other Beast thus he himself is THE BEAST. His name is the name of A MAN !! ONE MAN is the Beast, not a Kingdom this time. Im dropping nuggets here. 

 

Six have fallen, the Last Kingdom is the Beast System Kingdom, the Whole World is judged and taken down. Satan is placed in the pit, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are cast into hellfire.

No, that's what you say, nowhere in the bible does it say he will live in Jerusalem for 42 Months. He can have a palace there without staying in the palace continually or there can be a "LIVING IMAGE" of him somehow placed in the Temple, and maybe in every worshipping place in the whole world for all I know. We are just given Israels viewpoint. 

This is errant eschatology brother, he DECEIVES the MANY before his 42 Months as the Beast, why does a Conqueror have to deceive anyone once he goes forth Conquering ? You've got it all jumbled up.

 

No sir, that's your conjecture. Sister is telling you the same thing as I am, but Iamlamad already knows the deal.....except what you are pushing just isn't factual brother, it doesn't tie in. Here's what you do, you read this SOMEWHERE long ago, and you try to conform the scriptures to your beliefs, that not the way Eschatology or Prophecy works. I am not a slave to my ideas, 5 years ago I was, and I saw nothing but men's traditions, the same place you got that from, the same place the RCC peddlers get their beliefs from, the same place the Islamic horde guys get their understandings from, other men. 

If I have shown you once I have shown you 15 times who Babylon is via "THE WORD" as per Rev. 16:19 and then the 6th Vial. Nary a word in reply.

Leaving off other clues right ? She has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her. Why did John/Jesus/God point to BOTH SETS of God's peoples ? THINK MAN !! Because He wanted us to know it was Harlot Religion that killed them all !! Not just Saints of old and not just Christians !! So now put that with her being in every Nation, of every tongue etc. etc. and that can ONLY be All False Religion of ALL TIME. The RCC wasn't even around until 1600 or so years ago, Jerusalem is not all over the World !! It only fits All False Religion. The 7 Nations is erroneous, SIX HAVE FALLEN by this time, you try and say that since three Kings fell that leaves 7 Nations, the 10 Kings are all from the E.U. to start with, ONE NATION under the Beast = the E.U.

The CODE WORD is Babylon brother, we see in Rev. 16:19 what it means. The False Religious Harlot is what's being Judged, SEE Verse 1. God even says in verse 17 he places it in THEIR HEARTS to do His will !! Put it together man, the Beast DEMANDS WORSHIP, thus all Religions are DESTROYED, this is easy pickings brother. The 10 Kings in league with the Beast DESTROY the Harlot [religions] and thus she is JUDGED !! You are trying way too hard to make a square peg fit in a round hole brother. You have zeal, but like Paul you need to see a little better brother, SLOW DOWN, LOOK AROUND. 

Its not the RCC...its not Jerusalem, Rome or even an Islamic horde, however Islam id the LARGEST PORTION of the Harlot, but remember, the Harlot is DESTROYED/BURNED/KILLED OFF !!

The bible explains itself brother...........Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

So let's go through this, The Harlot {False Religions} are JUDGED HERE....See that ? The Angel says in verse 1 she sits on MANY WATERS !! Notice what the angel does here ? The same thing he did in verse 18, he refers back to THE VISION, "The Waters which you saw" just like the Woman you saw is that Great City in verse 18. 

The 10 Kings who give their Kingdoms to the Beast kill off all False Religion {the Harlot}, they don't destroy Jerusalem or Rome or the RCC. They kill off all False Religion because God placed it in their hearts to do his will. 

Its a Metaphor False Religion, not even a metaphor in reality, think about it, ALL FALSE RELIGION = Harlotry right ? 

I am showing you THE VISION.....Babylon on her forehead, that is how Harlots were identified. It says Babylon the Great right ? 

Ummmm NO....Read Daniel 9:24-27, he makes a 7 year Agreement with MANY {Including Israel} and in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK {with 42 Months left} he reneges on his Agreements and that is when Jesus RELEASES THE BEAST with the First Seal to go forth Conquering. All of the First Four Seals cover the Beasts actions over the 42 month period. He makes an AGREEMENT......Then hes REVEALED at the Midway point by his actions. The rest of the way will be a man of brute force, he only tries to TRICK those he can't get at, the Jews in Petra from this point on, Jesus forewarned them however.  You think the Seals have been opened !! Thus it has a ripple effect on the rest of your thinking brother.

Nope...God isn't destroying Jerusalem brother, Jesus is going to reign there for 1000 years. Chapter 18 is about the Destruction of the World's Economies via the Seals, Trumpets and Vial Judgments !! According to you hes in Jerusalem for 42 months, so he could have just wiped it off from the start. Rev. 18 is THE GOVERNMENT BEAST side of the equation. 

If you look at the first 10 verses you can see it go down in order. REMEMBER, verse 1 starts with the First Seal and Seals 1-6 are opened almost simultaneous. So all 6 are opened at the same time. So Rev. 18 starts on day 1261. and then THIS ENSUES:

Verse 2 says Babylon the great is fallen....it has become a Habitation of DEVILS....Who did I say was cast out of Heaven on day 1261 and the 6th Seal ? Satan and his demonic minions, Apollyon is released from the pit at the 1st Woe, so THE EARTH......Babylon.....is a habitation of all the Devils !! 

Verse 3 speaks of her excess, the merchants who sold out to excess and sin etc. etc. Then in verse 4 God tells Israel or the 144,000 to "COME OUT OF HER" or Babylon lest she receives of Babylons JUDGMENT !! This is where we see THE WOMAN Fleeing from the Dragon in Rev. 12:17 !! They all start with the FIRST 6 SEALS being opened bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, BOOM....then the 7th Seal must be held up until the 144,000 {ALL ISRAEL} makes it to the safety of the Petra/Bozrah area God has designed for them like unto a sheepfold. 

Verse 5 says her sins have reached heaven..........WELL....Whose sin filled up the bowls of Gods Wrath ? MANKIND ON EARTH !! Its pretty simple stuff. God is going to reward her or JUDGE HER here. These are the Beast Governments, the Harlot Religions have already been judged save Beast Worship.

Her plagues come in ONE DAY {DOTL....ONE DAY = 3.5 Years]. It says in verse 8 she is burned, well yes, the first Trumpet burns 1/3 of the trees and ALL the grasses. In verse 9 the kings cry and wail when she {Babylon/World} burns, but the same Kings REJOICED when the Harlot burned !! This IS NOT the Harlot, shes Dead, she is All False Religion. 

In ONE HOUR her Judgment is come....how long is ONE HOUR ? Well according to Rev. 17:12 it equals 43 months !! WATCH Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The Beast rules 42 Months right ? This Judgment lasts the same 42 Months !! Thus its the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments !! Amen. 

He sees THOSE NATIONS as Babylon the Great, I know where its fought. 

Israel HAS TO REPENT BEFORE the 70th Week can come to pass, so says the scriptures brother.

Simple PLAIN SPEAK Brother. God says Babylon THE GREAT. Not me.

This is my forte brother......God Bless

No, that's what you say, nowhere in the bible does it say he will live in Jerusalem for 42 Months. He can have a palace there without staying in the palace continually.  Of course he cannot STAY in Jerusalem continually, but that will be his headquarters for 42 months.

⁵ And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

He will have wars to fight as shown in Daniel 11. Here is where we need common sense: he will come as the "antichrist" IN PLACE OF Jesus Christ - to deceive all into thinking he IS the Christ. That is the great deception. Without a shadow of doubt the REAL CHRIST will come to Jerusalem. And when He comes to Jerusalem, He will STAY in Jerusalem. He will rule the world from Jerusalem. It seems then we agree on this point. Hallelujah!

we know Rome fell,  Sorry. Babylon was conquered by Medo-Persia. Persia was conquered by Greece. Greece was conquered by Rome. Rome was never conquered. She weakened, then sort of went into hiding. Part of Rome became Europe. Part of Rome because the Holy Roman Empire, which morphed into the Catholic church. In other words, Rome never completely disappeared.

Im dropping nuggets here.  In your mind.

This is errant eschatology brother, he DECEIVES the MANY before his 42 Months as the Beast  I am ready to learn: PROVE this with scripture. I guess in a way this could be right, because I don't think anyone will know who the Beast really is until the man of sin declares he is God.  So perhaps by hiding  - not making himself known as the beast he is deceiving many. But this is NOT NOT NOT his great deceit of convincing the world He is the God of the Jews! As per scripture, Rev. 13: the false prophet does not show up until AFTER the 42 months begin, so the image and mark are not established until after the 42 months begin. My friend, this is in the SECOND HALF of the week.  Can you find scripture that proves what he will do in the first half?

^{Dan: 11:40} And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

⁴¹ He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

There is no real "time stamp" on these verses to prove exactly when they will take place.

why does a Conqueror have to deceive anyone once he goes forth Conquering ?  How can the Beast go conquering and people say of him "who is able to make war with him" until or after they know who he is - know of whom they are worshiping? Of course his conquering will come after all knows he is the one who declared he is the god of the Jews. I think you have this "all jumbled up." I will continue to think so until you can prove by scripture what you are saying.

No sir, that's your conjecture.   (That the woman is the city) let's get this straight: I read John who wrote "the woman is that great city"....I tell you the woman is "that great city" - exactly as John has written it - but it is "conjecture?" Then what John wrote was "conjecture." Sorry, I don't buy that.  John said the woman represents "that great city." Since the Beast comes IN THE PLACE OF the Messiah, and since the REAL Messiah will come to Jerusalem, it makes good sense that John is talking about the city of Jerusalem. In a manner of speaking, we could say that Jerusalem will deceive the entire world. Really, it will be the Beast and False Prophet FROM Jerusalem that deceives the entire world.  If you are trying to make something symbolic when God meant it as literal, you will be miles off from the truth.

He wanted us to know it was Harlot Religion that killed them all !! Not just Saints of old and not just Christians !! So now put that with her being in every Nation, of every tongue etc. etc. and that can ONLY be All False Religion of ALL TIME.  Think! This was the harlot in the days of Simeramus and on through the ages with other false gods! Not in the end times!  John is writing of END TIMES - The last 42 months!  REad:

17:1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Where is this chapter in John's narrative?  It is after the 70th week has ended, but just before Jesus returns. It is discussing the destruction of "babylon." This is the CONTEXT. Note "that sitteth" is a present tense verb; John is talking about RIGHT THEN: at that moment in time.  John is not talking about the days of ancient Babylon. He is talking about the last 42 months of the week.

² With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication...  This is talking about the nations of the earth following after the Beast, worshiping him and behind him worshiping the devil. The whole world will be deceived. The leaders of the world will be deceived with the people.

the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication   She (the Beast and false prophet from the city of Jerusalem) has deceived all the world into worshiping the Antichrist Beast, and indeed, Satan himself. THIS is "her fornication." The entire world will swallow their lie.

Why is she "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS?" Because up to this time no false religion has ever come close to deceiving the entire world. She does.

She has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her.  No one knows at this time how many people the Beast and False prophet, with their armies, will kill and behead. I suspect it will make the holocaust seem insignificant. I am convinced the kings of the world are going to be so deceived that the kings of the world will enter into the murdering and beheading. it is going to be a blood bath. All those martyred may not be "saints." Certainly "saints" will make up a good percentage. You are thinking "history" while John is discussing the 42 months.

verse 1 starts with the First Seal and Seals 1-6 are opened almost simultaneous. So all 6 are opened at the same time. So Rev. 18 starts on day 1261.   Sorry, but this is all pretty much MYTH. John is after the week here, and you are thinking seals. WRONG! Why do you keep forgetting? The 70th week is INSIDE THE BOOK. The book cannot be opened until all 7 seals are opened. The 7th seal is opened in Rev. 8. Here we are discussing chapters 17 & 18, which come after the week has ended. And you are thinking seals? It is no wonder we disagree so much. The sadder part is that you imagine you are right!

The 7 Nations is erroneous, SIX HAVE FALLEN by this time, you try and say that since three Kings fell that leaves 7 Nations,  how can you imagine you are so right, when you miss it on almost every point? You are mixing heads with horns. The Beast (and Satan behind him) had 7 HEADS - representing 7 empires and 7 kings of empires.  The ten horns are a different entity: and there are two groups of ten horns. One will be the group that throws in with the Beast at the last hour for Armageddon. The 10 from Daniel will be the nations OF TODAY, of which the Beast will take out 3.  " and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes...  This is the ten of which the Beast will defeat three. These are not heads.

The False Religious Harlot is what's being Judged  WRONG!  You are thinking history, John and the Holy Spirit were thinking 42 months of deception. John is talking about the destruction of JERUSALEM. Did you never read?

Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

God is going to destroy the city - or allow it to be destroyed:

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

the 7th Seal must be held up until the 144,000 {ALL ISRAEL} makes it to the safety of the Petra/Bozrah area God has designed for them like unto a sheepfold.  Pure imagination! Your timing is like put in a blender and blended!  The 144,000 (NOT "all israel) are sealed for their protection from the trumpet judgments. Wake up, my friend, and study to show yourself approved: the trumpet judgments are in the first half of the week: even the 7th  - long before the abomination that will divide the week.

Nope...God isn't destroying Jerusalem brother, Jesus is going to reign there for 1000 years.  The real city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt and last forever. But the MYSTERY BABYLON, the city that deceived the entire world, will be utterly destroyed. It is a play on words; MYSTERY babylon (Jerusalem as a deceiving city) is gone forever, but the physical city of  Jerusalem will be destroyed and then rebuilt.

Chapter 18 is about the Destruction of the World's Economies via the Seals, Trumpets and Vial Judgments !!  COMPLETE MYTH! While the Beast is there, he brings the wealth of the world there. Much of the riches of the world will be shipped to Jerusalem! It will become one of the richest cities in the world. merchants will become rich just bringing riches to Jerusalem.  Why do you mess up John's timing so completely? Rev. 18 is after the week has finished and is (with chapter 17) talking about the destruction of JERUSALEM - what is happening RIGHT THEN.

it has become a Habitation of DEVILS....  Because the Beast will make his headquarters in Jerusalem - and Satan will be INSIDE the Beast, then the "seat of Satan" will move to Jerusalem. OF COURSE there will millions of devils there!

day 1261 and the 6th Seal   MYTH! These two are mutually exclusive. It seems you have no knowledge of John's chronology.

Her plagues come in ONE DAY  No, each vial has an associated plague: this is speaking of the vials. I suspect they all come one right after the other, perhaps in one day of earth time - all except the 7th that ends the week.

I cannot go on: it seems every sentence you write is bogus. I will stop here.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

The 7 heads on the beast are kingdoms.  Each kingdom ruled for a very long time and had more than one king.  How many kings (rulers) did Egypt have?, and Assyria?, and Babylon?, and Medo Persia?, and Rome?  The only exception is Greece (at that time).  They all had a succession of kings during their reign, and even though their kingdoms lost their power, they still exist today producing even more kings.  So we can't say there have been only 7 kings, and the Son of Perdition makes 8.  It doesn't gel with all the kings one after another ruling those empires throughout history.

Rome had many rulers, but in the latter days, that same kingdom becomes a mixed kingdom (iron and clay) and will end up with 10 kings ruling that kingdom from behind the scenes.  It's this 7th head (kingdom) that becomes an 8th kingdom.  It came out of the 7th kingdom.  It will morph into something else.  It will change it's policies and laws.  It will stripped it's own system naked and introduce a completely new one. 

The 10 horns are on the 7th head.  10 leaders arising from the 7th kingdom all at once (in the latter days). The man of sin doesn't take out 3 of his own, but 3 other kings who are in his way so that his 10 kings can rule and change the laws unhindered. The 10 are his man-power.  His backup.  He cannot do it alone without their help.  They own the system, control the money, and all the upper echalons of society who control the armies and sway the worlds opinion.

Daniel saw 10 horns without crowns.  He saw them come up and exist before they were given power. He saw them treading down everything in their path as they were rising.  In Revelation it shows them once they have received power, hence the 10 crowns.  All spring from the 7th head (7th kingdom), and morphs into an 8th kingdom, not 8th king.

What Daniel and John wrote is not just simple reading! If you notice, there are hints in Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 that the real meaning is NOW: what will happen in our near future. Notice:

Dan. 2: ³⁵ Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

⁴⁴ And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Yes, Daniel and the Holy Spirit were talking of the ancient kingdoms, but at the same time giving us a snapshot of the time of the 70th week. We know Nebuchadnezzar is long dead, and Alexander the Great. But what God is showing is is that these SAME LAND AREAS today will be in the end time scenario.

now notice chapter 7:

Dan 7:

¹¹ I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

¹² As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel 7's beasts are made to copy Dan. 2's beasts. But in reality they are END TIME beasts; in the same land areas as Dan. 2 beasts. Notice that the kings (the rest of the Beasts: the first three beasts) are all very much alive after the Antichrist Beast is taken and thrown into the lake of fire. 

Therefore, the 7 will really be people alive TODAY. John wrote that there are 7 mountains AND 7 kings. The mountains could be the ancient kingdoms, but the Kings of these same land areas are end time kings. For example, there is a very well known "king" if Iran today. The "king" of Iraq (Babylon) received a deadly wound, but was healed. I am convinced Iraq will return to the Muslim Brotherhood.

The ten kings, of which the Beast will take out three, are a DIFFERENT SET OF TEN. The Ten horns are the Kings that will "throw in" with the Beast for the battle of Armageddon.
Always remember, the head are not the kings and the kings are not the heads.

 

 

 

[Sister]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What Daniel and John wrote is not just simple reading! If you notice, there are hints in Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 that the real meaning is NOW: what will happen in our near future. Notice:

Dan. 2: ³⁵ Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

⁴⁴ And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Yes, Daniel and the Holy Spirit were talking of the ancient kingdoms, but at the same time giving us a snapshot of the time of the 70th week. We know Nebuchadnezzar is long dead, and Alexander the Great. But what God is showing is is that these SAME LAND AREAS today will be in the end time scenario.

now notice chapter 7:

Dan 7:

¹¹ I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

¹² As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel 7's beasts are made to copy Dan. 2's beasts. But in reality they are END TIME beasts; in the same land areas as Dan. 2 beasts. Notice that the kings (the rest of the Beasts: the first three beasts) are all very much alive after the Antichrist Beast is taken and thrown into the lake of fire. 

Therefore, the 7 will really be people alive TODAY. John wrote that there are 7 mountains AND 7 kings. The mountains could be the ancient kingdoms, but the Kings of these same land areas are end time kings. For example, there is a very well known "king" if Iran today. The "king" of Iraq (Babylon) received a deadly wound, but was healed. I am convinced Iraq will return to the Muslim Brotherhood.

The ten kings, of which the Beast will take out three, are a DIFFERENT SET OF TEN. The Ten horns are the Kings that will "throw in" with the Beast for the battle of Armageddon.
Always remember, the head are not the kings and the kings are not the heads.

 

 

 

Hello Iamlamad

I understand what you are saying but I see it like this;

In Dan 2, that whole image that Daniel saw Christ destroy are all the kingdoms of man.  Christ destroys that whole system of man ruling during the days of the 10 toes (10 kings). 

Daniel 2:42   And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Daniel 2:44   And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

In Dan 7, that kingdom of the 10 horns (which are the same 10 toes), that the little horn comes out of - is that system of man again, (showing the last kingdom ruling) which have their dominion destroyed when Christ returns.  Both scenario's are the same.  The ruling system of kingdoms through man will be no more.  That "system" will be thrown into the lake of fire.  It will be replaced by a new system,   and that is Christ's kingdom, with his dominion over all. 

  Daniel 7:20   And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

  Daniel 7:21   I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

  Daniel 7:22   Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

The rest of the beasts (nations) had their lives prolonged for a season and a time.  When Christ returns, even though many people will be judged and killed, there will be remnants left of all the nations.  Those beasts (nations) are still allowed to exist, for "a season and a time", and we know that season don't we?  It's a thousand years.  Only difference is that they have their dominion taken away, because Christ has dominion now over these nations.  And that "time" after "the season" (of a thousand years), is when Satan is released from prison and starts up the Gog and Magog war.  So you see the nations will still be around, but under Christ for a season and a time (a thousand years plus a little more years)

 Daniel 7:27   And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

 

We can see that Dan 2, and Dan 7 have both endings happening at the same time.  It's the same 10 kings, which are the toes on the image.  They are there at the end and are the same kingdom, just symbolised differently through the two visions. 

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hello Iamlamad

I understand what you are saying but I see it like this;

In Dan 2, that whole image that Daniel saw Christ destroy are all the kingdoms of man.  Christ destroys that whole system of man ruling during the days of the 10 toes (10 kings). 

Daniel 2:42   And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Daniel 2:44   And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

In Dan 7, that kingdom of the 10 horns (which are the same 10 toes), that the little horn comes out of - is that system of man again, (showing the last kingdom ruling) which have their dominion destroyed when Christ returns.  Both scenario's are the same.  The ruling system of kingdoms through man will be no more.  That "system" will be thrown into the lake of fire.  It will be replaced by a new system,   and that is Christ's kingdom, with his dominion over all. 

  Daniel 7:20   And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

  Daniel 7:21   I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

  Daniel 7:22   Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

The rest of the beasts (nations) had their lives prolonged for a season and a time.  When Christ returns, even though many people will be judged and killed, there will be remnants left of all the nations.  Those beasts (nations) are still allowed to exist, for "a season and a time", and we know that season don't we?  It's a thousand years.  Only difference is that they have their dominion taken away, because Christ has dominion now over these nations.  And that "time" after "the season" (of a thousand years), is when Satan is released from prison and starts up the Gog and Magog war.  So you see the nations will still be around, but under Christ for a season and a time (a thousand years plus a little more years)

 Daniel 7:27   And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

We can see that Dan 2, and Dan 7 have both endings happening at the same time.  It's the same 10 kings, which are the toes on the image.  They are there at the end and are the same kingdom, just symbolised differently through the two visions.

Poor choice of words, Sister: PEOPLE are thrown into the lake of fire, not "systems."

I disagree: we know a "time" is one year. A season is perhaps like a growing season, or less than a year. Their lives will be exended for perhaps a little over a year. maybe a year and a half.

there will be remnants left of all the nations. All "remnants" must pass the sheep and goat judgment! Perhaps before that the parable of the tares. It is written that unless one is born again, they will not see the Kingdom of God. Could that verse also fit here? This is certainly going to be the kingdom of God on earth. I think no one will be allowed into His earthly kingdom UNLESS they believe in Him.

[Sister]

22 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Poor choice of words, Sister: PEOPLE are thrown into the lake of fire, not "systems."

I disagree: we know a "time" is one year. A season is perhaps like a growing season, or less than a year. Their lives will be exended for perhaps a little over a year. maybe a year and a half.

there will be remnants left of all the nations. All "remnants" must pass the sheep and goat judgment! Perhaps before that the parable of the tares. It is written that unless one is born again, they will not see the Kingdom of God. Could that verse also fit here? This is certainly going to be the kingdom of God on earth. I think no one will be allowed into His earthly kingdom UNLESS they believe in Him.

Only two thrown into the lake of fire at the coming.  The beast and the false prophet.  That beast that is thrown into the lake of fire with the FP is that "system".  The system of man ruling.  The system of man having dominion of the world will never return.  It will be gone forever.

 Only these two were thrown into the lake of fire.  The rest of the dead have to wait  the 1000 years out....and that small period of time to face the judge and give an account of their actions.  This is the great white throne judgement.  Sending them straight into the lake of fire would be too easy.  They have to go on death row so to speak and wait in fear for their court date where they will be afraid and shamed and judged.  Only then they will be given their sentence which is the lake of fire.  The finale.

 

Revelation 20:6   Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7   And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9   And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

  Revelation 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

  Revelation 20:11   And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

  Revelation 20:12   And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

  Revelation 20:13   And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

  Revelation 20:14   And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

  Revelation 20:15   And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If I have shown you once I have shown you 15 times who Babylon is via "THE WORD" as per Rev. 16:19 and then the 6th Vial. Nary a word in reply.

¹⁹ And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

How funny you are! Again John wrote "great city" and you must explain it away! RM, why not just BELIEVE IT?  I did not reply because your theory is simply not truth.

It's you who don't seem to understand what a GREAT CITY is and that's on you......it means a Great City of that or other time periods. It meant Babylon, and THEN....Babylon is used as a CODE WORD for the whole world in the book of Revelation. If you aren't called to eschatology, you might not be able to see these things clearly. You dodge because the truth shines the light on these subjects.

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

¹² And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

¹³ And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

¹⁴ For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

This is preparation by the devil for the Battle of Armageddon. Do you see "Babylon" anywhere in these three verses?  It is not there. This is not talking about spiritual harlotry in any way: it is the devil preparing the way for the great battle. Remember this verse?

No brother, it's the Anti-Christ and all his minions, the Devil has no physical body. Sure hes guiding the world unto evils, but its the Anti-Christ that Jesus defeats and casts into hell. He places Satan in the bottomless pit also.

YES....I see Babylon, because God says the Nations He defeats are Babylon the Great, and thus who did He defeat ? The Kings of the WHOLE WORLD....You just can't seem to admit when someone pegs you as being wrong can you brother ? That's pride, it's no good. I showed you God calls the Nations he defeats Babylon the Great, then I show you who he defeats and I get this....."WELL IT DOESN'T SAY BABYLON". Get real man, you are playing games with yourself. God sees the Nations/Kings he defeats at Armageddon as Babylon, I am right on this, all the protestation in the world isn't going to change it. If I wasn't right you wouldn't have dodged it so many times before this. Truth is more important than us being right....right ? If I am proved wrong I learn TRUTH, I see that as as a Win....win.

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

This is again talking about ISRAEL and Jerusalem and the gathering of the nations to attempt to wipe Israel off the map.  Jerusalem will be attacked! People will be carried off as slaves.  They will set fire to Jerusalem - anything that will burn.

Nope, its speaking about ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME, Islam will be Destroyed likewise Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. all these False Religions will be destroyed. By this time the Anti-Christ has already Conquered Israel and become THE BEAST. No one's going to burn Jerusalem, it's metaphoric symbolism of what is going to happen to All False Religions, the Beast will demand Beast Worship. Look back at your TYPES man. Antiochus and Jason.

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The 8th King is the Scarlet Beast Apollyon  Wake up, RM! We have to use a little common sense here - a thing that seems lacking on these threads. A king is not a spirit nor is an evil spirit a king. You have this very wrong. (Jesus did call Satan "the prince of this world" as he was and still is the spiritual leader of earth.)  It will be the man of sin - A MAN, not a spirit - that turns into the Beast. When he declared that he was the God of the Jews - he opened himself up for possession. As soon as Satan was cast down, he possessed the man of sin who then became the Beast.  Before the man of sin entered the temple, few if any knew he would become the Antichrist Beast.  You have the Antichrist Beast doing things before John saw him rise up and before he was given his 42 months.. That is faulty reasoning.   Out of time.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. 

Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast. The Beasts of Revelation are designated by their CROWNS.

Rev. 12, the CROWNS are on the 7 Heads thus the Dragon = Satan who is over all the Kingdoms of all the World, including all Kingdoms over the Mediterranean Sea Region/Israel in this instance.

Rev. 13, the CROWNS are on the Horns/10 Kings thus the MAN BEAST is designated in Rev. chapter 13.

Rev. 17, the Scarlet Colored Beast has NO CROWNS at all, thus its Apollyon, the Beast that is NOW IN THE PIT, he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region as placed there by Satan, who resides in Heaven. Thus he was OF THE 7.....Or will be when hes released from the pit in Rev. 9:1-11. Thus he WAS [over the Region and Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia as the prince of Persia, Greece and Rome, he IS NOT {He's in the Pit as we speak}..........YET IS and thus he will be over the area again in the End Times thus over the Anti-Christ's Kingdom........THUS.......He is of the 7 and IS AN 8TH !! [King of the Bottomless pit}. 

So I agree, the MAN OF SIN is a Beast as is The Dragon as is Apollyon...... a BEAST simply stands for a dominating animal, Satan is over this whole World thus HE BEASTS over the worlds Kingdoms including the Mediterranean Sea Region, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn will Beast Physically over the Mediterranean Sea Region and Israel and then the Whole World. Lastly the Scarlet Colored Beast or Apollyon will BEAST over the Mediterranean Sea Region once again once God releases him.I can prove its Apollyon. 

Rev. 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The Anti-Christ is not coming back from the Dead !! Satan is in Heaven, not the Pit.........Only Apollyon is in the Bottomless Pit as we speak and is later released from the pit. He is allowed to kill the Two-witnesses. {See above}.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

He's a DEMON....He was over the Region from Egypt until Rome, then God placed him in the Pit for the duration of the Church Age. 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast NOT the Red Dragon who is Satan. This is my bag dude, I have convinced many people of this. Follow the facts.

P.S. no one actually says they are the God of the Jews...another MEN'S TRADITION that can be disproved. Now he may or may not be possessed, no one knows, that is just conjecture. He might love evil so much he doesn't need to be possessed. The Man of Sin is always the Anti-Christ BECAUSE he is Anti-God, but he only becomes THE BEAST when he Conquers Jerusalem thus DOMINATES them. This happens at the 42 Month/middle of the week period with the First Seal in Rev. chapter 6.

God Bless...

 

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It's you who don't seem to understand what a GREAT CITY is and that's on you......it means a Great City of that or other time periods. It meant Babylon, and THEN....Babylon is used as a CODE WORD for the whole world in the book of Revelation. If you aren't called to eschatology, you might not be able to see these things clearly. You dodge because the truth shines the light on these subjects.

No brother, it's the Anti-Christ and all his minions, the Devil has no physical body. Sure hes guiding the world unto evils, but its the Anti-Christ that Jesus defeats and casts into hell. He places Satan in the bottomless pit also.

YES....I see Babylon, because God says the Nations He defeats are Babylon the Great, and thus who did He defeat ? The Kings of the WHOLE WORLD....You just can't seem to admit when someone pegs you as being wrong can you brother ? That's pride, it's no good. I showed you God calls the Nations he defeats Babylon the Great, then I show you who he defeats and I get this....."WELL IT DOESN'T SAY BABYLON". Get real man, you are playing games with yourself. God sees the Nations/Kings he defeats at Armageddon as Babylon, I am right on this, all the protestation in the world isn't going to change it. If I wasn't right you wouldn't have dodged it so many times before this. Truth is more important than us being right....right ? If I am proved wrong I learn TRUTH, I see that as as a Win....win.

Nope, its speaking about ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME, Islam will be Destroyed likewise Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. all these False Religions will be destroyed. By this time the Anti-Christ has already Conquered Israel and become THE BEAST. No one's going to burn Jerusalem, it's metaphoric symbolism of what is going to happen to All False Religions, the Beast will demand Beast Worship. Look back at your TYPES man. Antiochus and Jason.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. 

Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast. The Beasts of Revelation are designated by their CROWNS.

Rev. 12, the CROWNS are on the 7 Heads thus the Dragon = Satan who is over all the Kingdoms of all the World, including all Kingdoms over the Mediterranean Sea Region/Israel in this instance.

Rev. 13, the CROWNS are on the Horns/10 Kings thus the MAN BEAST is designated in Rev. chapter 13.

Rev. 17, the Scarlet Colored Beast has NO CROWNS at all, thus its Apollyon, the Beast that is NOW IN THE PIT, he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region as placed there by Satan, who resides in Heaven. Thus he was OF THE 7.....Or will be when hes released from the pit in Rev. 9:1-11. Thus he WAS [over the Region and Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia as the prince of Persia, Greece and Rome, he IS NOT {He's in the Pit as we speak}..........YET IS and thus he will be over the area again in the End Times thus over the Anti-Christ's Kingdom........THUS.......He is of the 7 and IS AN 8TH !! [King of the Bottomless pit}. 

So I agree, the MAN OF SIN is a Beast as is The Dragon as is Apollyon...... a BEAST simply stands for a dominating animal, Satan is over this whole World thus HE BEASTS over the worlds Kingdoms including the Mediterranean Sea Region, the Anti-Christ/Little Horn will Beast Physically over the Mediterranean Sea Region and Israel and then the Whole World. Lastly the Scarlet Colored Beast or Apollyon will BEAST over the Mediterranean Sea Region once again once God releases him.I can prove its Apollyon. 

Rev. 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The Anti-Christ is not coming back from the Dead !! Satan is in Heaven, not the Pit.........Only Apollyon is in the Bottomless Pit as we speak and is later released from the pit. He is allowed to kill the Two-witnesses. {See above}.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

He's a DEMON....He was over the Region from Egypt until Rome, then God placed him in the Pit for the duration of the Church Age. 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast NOT the Red Dragon who is Satan. This is my bag dude, I have convinced many people of this. Follow the facts.

P.S. no one actually says they are the God of the Jews...another MEN'S TRADITION that can be disproved. Now he may or may not be possessed, no one knows, that is just conjecture. He might love evil so much he doesn't need to be possessed. The Man of Sin is always the Anti-Christ BECAUSE he is Anti-God, but he only becomes THE BEAST when he Conquers Jerusalem thus DOMINATES them. This happens at the 42 Month/middle of the week period with the First Seal in Rev. chapter 6.

God Bless..

If you aren't called to eschatology, you might not be able to see these things clearly. You dodge because the truth shines the light on these subjects.  I suspect these kinds of comments makes you feel real good!  Do you think anyone would be on a forum on eschatology if they were not called to this area of the bible?

My friend, Revelation only has TWO "Beasts." One is "the beast" and the other is the "false Prophet."

Rev. 19:20  ²⁰ And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Did you not read this?

Rev. 13: ⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; ...

WHY would he have to be in sight of the Beast to do his miracles? It is simple: he gets the power to do miracles from Satan, and Satan is possessing the Beast.

Babylon is used as a CODE WORD for the whole world in the book of Revelation.  Sorry, but that is your theory. I have solid proof of the written word. It is a city!

The river is stopped for PEOPLE who live East of the river to just walk over. WHO lives Easts of the Euphrates River? Well, what nations East of the river are people of the same persuasion as those currently living in Babylon (Iraq) and Persia (Iran)? It would be all the 'Stan nations. Do you really think it is for China?

You just can't seem to admit when someone pegs you as being wrong can you brother ?  I am still waiting!

God says the Nations He defeats are Babylon the Great, and thus who did He defeat ?   So pick out the verse you think says that, and we will discuss a verse- not a theory.  Here God certainly judges her: Rev. 19

² For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

I showed you God calls the Nations he defeats Babylon the Great  I am still waiting for you to show me a verse or several verses that actually say and mean what you are imagining. Maybe I am slow and you need to show me again By the way, when I said, "IT DOESN'T SAY BABYLON" well, it does not. Your imagination must insert "babylon."  Perhaps you can show verses that tie what is written TO Babylon - but I doubt that.

you are playing games with yourself.  No, I am going by what is written, rather than follow your imagination. If you expect me to believe something, IT MUST BE WRITTEN in black and white. For example, God said "that great city," but you imagine it is al false religion.  Here is what I think: you THINK you know, when in fact, you don't.

God sees the Nations/Kings he defeats at Armageddon as Babylon, I am right on this, all the protestation in the world isn't going to change it.  Unless you can prove this with scripture, it is just you talking to the air.

Rev. 17:16 hating the whore... Nope, its speaking about ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME  Says YOU.  Hmmm. Stop and think: would attacking Israel be attacking all the false religions of the world? Where will the armies of the world go for Armageddon? Ah! Yes, they go to ISRAEL.  The world does not hate false religion, they hate ISRAEL.

By this time the Anti-Christ has already Conquered Israel and become THE BEAST.  On my! More imagination! Do you EVER follow the WORD?  He becomes the Beast when He gets possessed - right after he opens himself up for possession by telling the world he is God. Please, no more imagination! Show me chapter and verse where the Beast defeats Israel. This I must see.

No one's going to burn Jerusalem, it's metaphoric symbolism  No WONDER we cannot agree: You symbolize everything!  Was the temple burned in 70 AD - or was that more symbolism?  What do you imagine will happen at Armageddon before Jesus comes on the scene? It will be WAR. Nathan, the 15 year old Jewish boy that died and went to heaven, then came back to tell, said that the IDF lasted two days into Armageddon. (He said many other things that were dead on accurate according to the bible). If the IDF is still there at Armageddon, it means Israel has not yet been defeated.

Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast  Apollyon means destroyer. Satan is the destroyer. The Antichrist beast is a MAN, not a spirit. Are you saying that Apollyon is the principality over some land area?

Sorry, I just don't follow imagination. I have to see it line upon line: the written word.