Prosperity Gospel

[unworthyservant]

18 hours ago, Willa said:

The money changers were skimming and padding their own pockets.  That is what Jesus objected to in making His Fathers house a den of thieves.  It was not that they sold sacrifices but that they were dishonest in their dealings.  This is not true of Billy Graham and I don't think he was trying to amass all the money because he seemed to be quite generous.  Many people were saved and are still serving God as a result of his ministry.  He effected many more who respected him in spite of rejecting Christ.    I don't know concerning your unnamed preacher.  

I doubt that Billy Graham was skimming but it sure looks like he padded his pockets pretty well. He didn't have to skim, he was the boss. And he sure did pretty well for someone who wasn't trying.

[Heleadethme]

23 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

That's another good point, the merchandising of Christianity. It could be a topic in itself.

Indeed it is....Jesus driving the money changers out of the Father's house was at the beginning and end of His ministry.  Fast forward to the book of Revelations and we have the merchants of Babylon and all their wares which include the souls of men.  So....it looks like we can expect Jesus to drive the moneychangers out of the Father's house again in the last days.

[unworthyservant]

2 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Indeed it is....Jesus driving the money changers out of the Father's house was at the beginning and end of His ministry.  Fast forward to the book of Revelations and we have the merchants of Babylon and all their wares which include the souls of men.  So....it looks like we can expect Jesus to drive the moneychangers out of the Father's house again in the last days.

Indeed and all I can do is try to drive them out when I see them but unfortunately you're probably right, Christ will ahve to do it again.

[Heleadethme]

On 8/18/2019 at 2:36 PM, unworthyservant said:

Since my post on using "In God We Trust" it's brought up another subject and that is the prosperity Gospel that being preached these days, so I thought I'd share this:

Evangelical preacher on TV tells me send my money to the Lord. Send a gift of Faith, you'll receive your reward.

Send it today, now don't delay, salvation's in your reach. You'll have a mansion in Heaven and a condo on the beach.

He takes the money I send him to pay for his million dollar home. A luxury hotel room, when he has to be gone.

You can see how rich you'll be, just keep on sending cash. He's getting awful rich and I'm just poor trailer trash.

I sit around and worry about how I'll pay the bills. While he's out living the high life with stars in Beverly Hills.

All I know is everywhere I go I'm stuck in the old rat race. While he tells me that his fortune, is God's amazing Grace.

 

 

 

Amen...we are supposed to pool our resources for the work of the kingdom, including and especially the leaders who should set the example and are the ones collecting it all.  So since these hypocritical ones are storing up treasure on earth for themselves instead of using it for evangelism and to help the poor, I wouldn't send them a penny to line their pockets with.  Been there, done that and thankfully woke up by the faithfulness of the Lord. 

[Heleadethme]

21 hours ago, Cletus said:

its not so much about the millions they have made, or by what means.  the prosperity doctrine is false in that it makes God out to be a genie in a bottle, or a santa clause.  one who does your bidding to make you happy.  it does not focus on "Thy will be done"  but it focuses on self happiness and gaining it by creation, not The Creator. 

The prosperity doctrine preaches a false Jesus.  i do not know how to say this any more plainly. 

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

vanity, pride and arrogance are the fruits of the prosperity doctrine. 

Amen.....it's a man-centred gospel that makes Jesus/God seem like our servant to do our bidding instead of we being His servants.

[Blood Bought 1953]

2 hours ago, Cletus said:

  tithe means tenth.  a tenth.  it has never been 25 percent.  its always been a dime on a dollar.  its never been anything else.  ever. 

where do you come up with this stuff? 

Where do I get this stuff? It’s called “ rightly dividing” and “ proving myself to be a good student of God’sWord, so I will not be ashamed” 

The First Tithe: The Levite Tithe

The first tithe was given to the Levites (Num 18:21). Only members of the tribe of Levi were to receive this tithe (the tenth). The Levites in turn were to give one tenth of that tithe to the Priests (Num 18:25-28). Unlike the tithes below, it replaced land inheritance rights in Israel and provided basic sustenance for the Levite and the Aaronic priests of the tribe of Levi. This tithe was only applicable in the Promised Land (Deut 12:19).

The Second Tithe - The Festival Tithe

The second prescribed tithe was the festival tithe (Deut 16:16). Every year, Israel was to bring their tithes (pl., Deut 12:6) to be set aside "and consumed" at the festival (Deut 12:18). So, the first and second tithe are distinct from one another, as in Deuteronomy 12:18, the individual was given the right to eat the (second) tithe being specified as part the joyous festival observance. See Deuteronomy 14:22-26.

Even Church history records that they are separate tithes. In Antiquities of the Jews, by the Jewish historian Josephus, we find the following statement: "Let there be taken out of your fruits a tenth, besides that which you have allotted to give to the priests and Levites. This you may indeed sell in the country, but it is to be used in those feasts and sacrifices that are to be celebrated in the holy city: for it is fit that you should enjoy those fruits of the earth which God gives you to possess" (Book 4, chapter 4, section 8).

The Third Tithe - The Poor Tithe

The third tithe was for the poor (Deut 14:28-29). The Church has an obligation to assist the poor (Deut 15:11; John 12:8; Acts 20:35; Gal 2:10; 1 Tim 5:3). This obligation stems from the Old Testament. Twice (Deut 14:28; 26:12-13), the Lord gives instruction regarding a tithe that is to be saved and distributed every third year. This third tithe was to be set aside locally and stored within each city or town (Deut 14:28; 26:12) for the use of the Levites and the poor of the community - the stranger, fatherless, and widow. 

Besides the above the corners of the fields and the grapes dropped by workers were reserved for the poor (Deut 24:17: Lev 19:9-10). The poor were also allowed to eat of the land that lay fallow during the Sabbath years (Lev 25:1-7; Deut 15:1-11).

Josephus says, "Besides those two tithes, which I have already said you are to pay every year, the one for the Levites, the other for the festivals, you are to bring every third year a third tithe to be distributed to those that want [i.e., lack]; to women also that are widows, and to children that are orphans" (Book 4, chapter 8, section 22).

 

 

[gdemoss]

The good news...God is and God is salvation from all things including being poor.

I don't listen to tv preachers but I do what I believe God has told me to do.

I was a thief.  I had a very hard time making ends meet after salvation but the scripture said to stop stealing and work with my hands so that I could give to them that had nothing. I did.  It felt like a death sentence.  Like I would never have anything in life because it was my penance to give it all away! Gradually I began to notice something peculiar. The more I gave away the more kept coming back.  Jesus said give to all that ask of me or want to borrow.  I did.  It kept coming back plus interest.  He said if I gave that men would give into my hands the more.  They did.

I lost my fear of financial insecurity by doing what he said to do.  What I learned was that I was poor because I was greedy and used every cent to satisfy the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

I am no longer poor.  I live in a modest home.  I drive a modest vehicle.  

I sat in a church and listen to the minister justify why he didn't buy someone a $15 fan who asked for a fan during one hot summer because the person wasn't there on Sunday.  The church had $750,000 in the bank. I walked away knowing that I did not belong there.  I was not of them. I couldn't be happier with that decision.

I just got off the phone with a man who is broken like I was.  Unable to understand why life is so hard for him.  He thinks that getting a job will solve all his problems. He has gotten many jobs and none have solved his problems.  He doesn't understand that his problem is that he is separated from God by sin and that only God can save him. 

We don't realize that when a man sheds man's blood and the ground opens up to receive it that the punishment is the ground not producing food for that man any longer.  Cain had it hard but he turned away not toward God.  He blamed God for his misfortune.  The thief who has made it ok to steal from him by stealing himself etc...it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God but turn to God for help and follow his teaching then all sorts of remarkable things happen.  God can restore the years the locust have eaten.

I have seen miracles upon miracles.  I do not believe that the love of money is the root of all evil though it is translated that way in the KJV.  There was no money in the garden of Eden.  I would prefer the translation covetousness like was translated elsewhere for very similar word.  Satan coveted Gods place and that is why the original sinner fell not money.  Nor did Cain kill his brother for money.  Nor did David kill Uriah for money. Covetousness...

Many a man has lived godly without covetousness and been rich.  The good news includes prosperity but many have come to think that to be wealthy is to be greedy.  I now know many wealthy people and have found none of them to be greedy.  Quite the opposite really.  To them money is a tool used to exchange love and service.  Funny thing is now that Christ has me I don't want their money like I used too when I was poor and greedy!

Thank God for helping me see my error.

[Sower]

Excellent Gary........
A lesson I also learned very early on,
You can't out give God!

PS;   The best, most valuable blessings are....
               NOT monetary.

 

[cat lady 1234]

23 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

I didn't mean to imply that Billy Graham was dishonest in any way. I've heard that theory about the dishonesty of the temple sellers and since the Bible doesn't say it specifically, and I can't find anyone who has convincing enough evidence, I personally don't know if it's the case or not. I mention it because it was what drove Christ to anger. The point about Billy Graham and other millionaire preachers is that it seems that they have laid up for themselves quite the treasure on this earth. All I'm saying is that especially a preacher shouldn't amass millions of dollars of personal wealth when there's starving people right here in the US. It just seems to go against everything that Christ taught on the subject. Christ said "A rich man shall hardly enter the kingdom of heaven.". In my humble opinion, 25 million dollars is pretty rich. When Christ said "You cannot serve God and mammon", he was talking to us all, even if you are a preacher and have done a lot of good. When the rich ruler came to Jesus, He first told him to follow the commandments. When the young man indicated that he had indeed kept all the commandments from his youth, Christ didn't dispute that, he said "One thing you lack". The thing that he told him to do was sell all that he had and give the money to the poor. Only after he would do this could he follow Christ. We all know the story about how he couldn't do it. Christ taught that the way to show that we don't love money (or worship mammon) is if we are willing to give it up for the Gospel's sake.

where is that in the bible? I have a hard time with churches that ask you to give ten percent I don't find it in the new testament where is this law located in the new testament?

[unworthyservant]

2 hours ago, cat lady 1234 said:

where is that in the bible? I have a hard time with churches that ask you to give ten percent I don't find it in the new testament where is this law located in the new testament?

You ask where do you find "that" in the Bible. Since the passage that you are referring to has several references to teachings of Christ (which of course all are from the New Testament) so I'm not sure exactly which you mean by "that". You also ask about a "law" in the New Testament. Personally, I don't refer to Christ's teachings or anything in the New Testament as "law" as I reserve the word for for the Old Testament laws. Even Christ seemed to do the same. So, if you could elaborate on what you're referring to when you say "where is "this law" located in the New Testament?" I'll certainly do my best to give you an answer.