Sorcery/Witchcraft what are these works of the flesh?

[unworthyservant]

Galatians 5:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

²⁰ Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

²¹ Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Other versions use sorcery instead of witchcraft but what did Paul really say? In the Greek it says pharmakeia, which originates from

pharmakeuó. Strong's defines it as the use of medicine, drugs or spells and the administration of drugs, respectively.. The Latin pharmacopolium is where we get our modern word Pharmacy.

So, what was Paul actually warning us about? Of course when the KJV of the Bible was written witchcraft was considered evil while pharmacy as related to medicine of the time was becoming widely accepted. Others use sorcery here. Either way, how did they come to that narrow interpretation given the broader definition of the Greek manuscripts? 

 

 

[unworthyservant]

7 minutes ago, Cletus said:

1Sa 15:23  For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

There are several references that are translated witchcraft in the OT, especially in the KJV. These are different translations altogether. 

[unworthyservant]

3 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Is this another of your posts pretending to ask a question, then telling us what you really want to say later? 

If so, I am not going to guess what you mean and be told I got it wrong due to you missing out something you reveal after several have posted varied replies to what you originally write.

Been there, done that.

Neither am I going to accept that medication is forbidden witchcraft.

Actually, I'm up in the air on the subject. I believe it is one of those things we may not know until all is revealed on that day. When I ask questions where I have an opinion other than the obvious statement, I will always state that as articulately as I can at the onset.

[unworthyservant]

I just realized that I had left out a relevant point in the original post on this topic. That is this, English translation aside, why was the word pharmakeia used in the Greek transcripts instead of the word mageia which literally meant sorcery in Greek? Now we all know of the benefits of modern medicine and that's why this whole subject is such a conundrum for me.  What was Paul really saying?

[JustPassingThru]

1 hour ago, unworthyservant said:

Either way, how did they come to that narrow interpretation given the broader definition of the Greek manuscripts? 

Because the Septuagint translates the words sorcerer, magician, witch as pharmakeia:

Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.  Exo 7:11 

And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians.  Exo 9:11

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.   Exo 22:18 

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,  Deu 18:10

Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.   Dan 2:2 

And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.  Mal 3:5 

Remember, ...Paul only had the Old Testament as a reference to work from, ...he tells us his New Testament writings were revelations from the Holy Spirit:

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.  Gal 1:12

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;   Eph 3:3-5

Pharmakeia in the Old Testament is the same as pharmakeia in the New Testament, ..some one who uses, sells, prescribes or distributes, ...mind altering drugs that are an open door for humans to a forbidden dimension where the demons exist. 

The Holy Spirit, writing through the quill of Paul, didn't make any mistakes or contradictions  when/in writing His Word for us.

[missmuffet]

Sorcery and witchcraft is clearly not of God but of Satan Galatians 5:20 and Revelation 18:23.

That is why I have nothing to do with the Harry Potter books or movies. 

[unworthyservant]

6 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

Because the Septuagint translates the words sorcerer, magician, witch as pharmakeia:

Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.  Exo 7:11 

And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians.  Exo 9:11

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.   Exo 22:18 

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,  Deu 18:10

Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.   Dan 2:2 

And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.  Mal 3:5 

Remember, ...Paul only had the Old Testament as a reference to work from, ...he tells us his New Testament writings were revelations from the Holy Spirit:

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.  Gal 1:12

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;   Eph 3:3-5

Pharmakeia in the Old Testament is the same as pharmakeia in the New Testament, ..some one who uses, sells, prescribes or distributes, ...mind altering drugs that are an open door for humans to a forbidden dimension where the demons exist. 

The Holy Spirit, writing through the quill of Paul, didn't make any mistakes or contradictions  when/in writing His Word for us.

First, Pharmakeia  is a Greek word and has several Hebrew words that could be translated as such. And per Strong's and Thayer's there are quite a few Old Testament words that all got translated to witchcraft or sorcery. Kinda like abomination, there's too many to go into because they are not the point. In the passage that we are discussing, the question at the heart of it is why didn't the Greek writers use the word mageia if it was about sorcery? I understand how the 17th century English would have translated it as witchcraft as witch hunts were becoming common at that time. But why was the Greek as it is?

 

[JustPassingThru]

What I am confused about, ...don't understand is, ...why are you questioning the Holy Spirit's use of the words: Pharmakeia, Pharmakeus or pharmakos, ...in His New Testament which His intention is to clearly show, without a shadow of doubt, ...those that practice them are not going to Heaven.   

[luigi]

According to Revelation 9:20,  all the plagues seen in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 are attributed to the love mankind has for the works from his hands. In turn these works are referred to as sorceries in Revelation 9:21. If we then take these data and apply them to events occurring today, sorceries would represent technology that provides mankind with all the new modern marvel toys he so loves.

9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. Revelation 

[Omegaman 3.0]

6 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

pharmakeuó. Strong's defines it as the use of medicine, drugs or spells and the administration of drugs, respectively.. The Latin pharmacopolium is where we get our modern word Pharmacy.

So, what was Paul actually warning us about? Of course when the KJV of the Bible was written witchcraft was considered evil while pharmacy as related to medicine of the time was becoming widely accepted. Others use sorcery here. Either way, how did they come to that narrow interpretation given the broader definition of the Greek manuscripts? 

When people who are not scholars (or even if they are) try to assign a meaning to modern word, based on the similarity to it's root in the same or another language, they often are making an error. Language does not work like that. If we were to go that way, then we should call Paul a witch or a sorcerer, since he prescribed that Timothy should take a little wine for his stomach's sake.

This is the sort of thing D.A. Carson mentions in his book, "Exegetical Fallacies" when a person tries to conclude from a root meaning and transfer it to a modern usage (I guess I already said that), well let's not make that mistake ourselves. Modern drugs save lives, frequently, and to infer that those involved in that industry are somehow witches or something like that, is to pratice a kind of defamation of character that we know as libel in the United State. If nothing else, it is just ignorant rumor mongering of a class of people, who do not deserve it.

Here in the O.P., the author is avoiding that by posing a question, which then encourages others to do the dirty work, and it is not a noble thing for a Christian to do. When one has the 20 years or so experience translating Koine Greek it takes to become an expert in the field, then post your conclusions. Dipping into Strong's (a work designed for shallow study by laymen) does not qualify one to translate scripture, at LEAST use something more scholarly focused (like Bauer Arndt Gingrich Danker Lexicon), not works meant for more casual reference like Vines, etc.

If we want to keep the exegetical fallacy, then let's at least be consistent. I vote then that when we say someone or something is hysterical, that we really mean they have a uterus.

hysterical (adj.)
1610s, "characteristic of hysteria," the nervous disease originally defined as a neurotic condition peculiar to women and thought to be caused by a dysfunction of the uterus; literally "of the womb," from Latin hystericus "of the womb," from Greek hysterikos "of the womb, suffering in the womb," from hystera "womb"