Justin Adams Posted August 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2019 On 8/26/2019 at 10:36 AM, Betha said: It is of course true that the Person of Jesus transforms us and not merely the name....but seems that not even HIS NAME can now be safely used as genuine since MANY FALSE christs have arisen and are deceiving many. Mat 24v4,5. So if there are a number of fakes all using JESUS as their name we have to look for other IDENTIFICATION to separate the REAL JESUS !!! Scripture will help us !!! We are all on a journey. Some go this way and some go that. Some automatically do not like churchy doctrines since there is a ring of noisesome questions over shadowing them. It is OK to question and seek. I do not mind telling of my particular take on something, but do not expect all to see it my way. We are IMAGERS of God (made in His Image). We are to "imitate Christ" as the apostle said. We are wonderfully different and God likes it this way. We are not cookie-cut believers, just saved. It takes some a long time to shed the 'skin' of denominational bias and actually think for themselves. That is a very good thing, though at times can be lonely. His Spirit - the Spirit of Prophesy - the Lord Yeshus/Jesus is in charge of every believer's life. He is our Commander-in-Chief. He will guide us in all things because He promised to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,014 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,276 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,333 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Betha said: You mean we do NOT have to change from our carnal nature and become DOERS of GOD's Word ? we just stay as we are ? Of course not. But because we are in Christ there is an inner working in our hearts and life by the Holy Spirit which helps to transform us. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,014 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,276 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,333 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Betha said: I agree, but it still requires our actions to carry out the prompting of the Spirit, change does not happen apart from our actual participation. To me it looks more like DEPENDING on the Lord than resting which suggests idleness or accomplishment....which none of us reach until we enter the Kingdom. (just my take) I think you are misunderstanding me, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, nzkev said: You really gonna try pull this rubbish You are acting in an unkindly manner. Do no quote one part if you wish a reply. I will not report you this time as this is not the way I generally do things. However, please do me the courtesy of a reasonable reply. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,764 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,435 Days Won: 128 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Betha said: We can not all see things the same way because we are all on different levels of learning. ...but one thing could be helpful - that we all start from the SAME FOUNDATION. Gentiles have been 'sidetracked by ungodly men to choose another day as their starting-point and thus the RACE is lawless and invalid 2 Tim 2v5. GOD makes the rules to be obeyed, not for us to change. Christians have to learn that yet Heb 5v9. First of all, the context in which this is read would disqualify even the apostles and early church fathers. I'm going to throw something out to PONDER and to think about. In the 1st century, Barnabas wrote of the Sabbath and he said something very profound. While the Epistle of Barnabas is NOT scripture and I wouldn't equate it to such, he did write of the TRUE sabbath to come. This is what is found in the 15th chapter of Barnabas. Barnabas 15:1 Moreover concerning the Sabbath likewise it is written in the Ten Words, in which He spake to Moses face to face on Mount Sinai; And ye shall hallow the Sabbath of the Lord with pure hands and with a pure heart. Barnabas 15:2 And in another place He saith; If my sons observe the Sabbath then I will bestow My mercy upon them. Barnabas 15:3 Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it. Barnabas 15:4 Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end. Barnabas 15:5 And He rested on the seventh day. this He meaneth; when His Son shall come, and shall abolish the time of the Lawless One, and shall judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun and the moon and the stars, then shall he truly rest on the seventh day. Barnabas 15:6 Yea and furthermore He saith; Thou shalt hallow it with pure hands and with a pure heart. If therefore a man is able now to hallow the day which God hallowed, though he be pure in heart, we have gone utterly astray. Barnabas 15:7 But if after all then and not till then shall we truly rest and hallow it, when we shall ourselves be able to do so after being justified and receiving the promise, when iniquity is no more and all things have been made new by the Lord, we shall be able to hallow it then, because we ourselves shall have been hallowed first. Barnabas 15:8 Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world. Barnabas 15:9 Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into the heavens. The reason the early apostles kept the 1st day of the week as their worship day, was not because it was the 1st day -- but they viewed it as the 8th DAY also called "The Lord's Day" and connected this day to the Resurrection, the Ascension and finally the Kingdom to come. They didn't discount the Shabbat, but rather in this context viewed it as the true worship of Shabbat would only take place after our glorification, when sin is truly dealt with in its entirety. I hope this clarifies some points that are MISUNDERSTOOD by many people concerning Shabbat, Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeshua153 Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 83 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just thought I'd interject, as there seems to be more on sabbath & 6 & 7th day church, than the original subject, not that I mind, but it probably should be in it's own thread. For my tuppence worth, I'd say that the spiritual sabbath is daily, & will go into eternity, resting with God. Church is everyday too, not confined to the 6th or 7th day. I'm not Jewish, but I am a spiritual jew, doing no rituals, with the law written in my heart, on tablets of flesh, Col2v14 & 2C0r 3v3. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, George said: First of all, the context in which this is read would disqualify even the apostles and early church fathers. I'm going to throw something out to PONDER and to think about. In the 1st century, Barnabas wrote of the Sabbath and he said something very profound. While the Epistle of Barnabas is NOT scripture and I wouldn't equate it to such, he did write of the TRUE sabbath to come. This is what is found in the 15th chapter of Barnabas. Barnabas 15:1 Moreover concerning the Sabbath likewise it is written in the Ten Words, in which He spake to Moses face to face on Mount Sinai; And ye shall hallow the Sabbath of the Lord with pure hands and with a pure heart. Barnabas 15:2 And in another place He saith; If my sons observe the Sabbath then I will bestow My mercy upon them. Barnabas 15:3 Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it. Barnabas 15:4 Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end. Barnabas 15:5 And He rested on the seventh day. this He meaneth; when His Son shall come, and shall abolish the time of the Lawless One, and shall judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun and the moon and the stars, then shall he truly rest on the seventh day. Barnabas 15:6 Yea and furthermore He saith; Thou shalt hallow it with pure hands and with a pure heart. If therefore a man is able now to hallow the day which God hallowed, though he be pure in heart, we have gone utterly astray. Barnabas 15:7 But if after all then and not till then shall we truly rest and hallow it, when we shall ourselves be able to do so after being justified and receiving the promise, when iniquity is no more and all things have been made new by the Lord, we shall be able to hallow it then, because we ourselves shall have been hallowed first. Barnabas 15:8 Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world. Barnabas 15:9 Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into the heavens. The reason the early apostles kept the 1st day of the week as their worship day, was not because it was the 1st day -- but they viewed it as the 8th DAY also called "The Lord's Day" and connected this day to the Resurrection, the Ascension and finally the Kingdom to come. They didn't discount the Shabbat, but rather in this context viewed it as the true worship of Shabbat would only take place after our glorification, when sin is truly dealt with in its entirety. I hope this clarifies some points that are MISUNDERSTOOD by many people concerning Shabbat, Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George Sorry, but seems like you are using Barnabas as scripture. In the review of it, it definitely is not in unity with scripture. I never see in scripture where the apostles ever "kept" the first day of the week as their worship day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Yeshua153 said: Just thought I'd interject, as there seems to be more on sabbath & 6 & 7th day church, than the original subject, not that I mind, but it probably should be in it's own thread. For my tuppence worth, I'd say that the spiritual sabbath is daily, & will go into eternity, resting with God. Church is everyday too, not confined to the 6th or 7th day. I'm not Jewish, but I am a spiritual jew, doing no rituals, with the law written in my heart, on tablets of flesh, Col2v14 & 2C0r 3v3. I do agree that the thread has changed from the original postings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tigger56 said: Sorry, but seems like you are using Barnabas as scripture. In the review of it, it definitely is not in unity with scripture. I'd personally accept the writings of the early church fathers over modern scholarship though. Modern scholars who are "wise" enough to think there are two Isaiahs or multiple authors of the Torah. I think such writings are a great insight into the past and worthy for serious consideration but not necessarily "gospel" for faith adjustment. Edited August 28, 2019 by Tzephanyahu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted August 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, Tzephanyahu said: I'd personally accept the writings of the early church fathers over modern scholarship though. Modern scholars who are "wise" enough to think there are two Isaiahs or multiple authors of the Torah. I think such writings are a great insight into the past and worthy for serious consideration but not necessarily "gospel" for faith adjustment. I don't accept the modern scholars either, to many having their own threshing instruments in which they interpret scripture. But doubt the authenticity of most of the added writing that are exclusive of being in the Bible. There are some that can be interesting, such as Josephus as a historian. I have a lot of "red flags" when these writing go against what is in the Bible. I know the Bible has some flaws but do feel it is mostly the inspired word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts