Justin Adams Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, unworthyservant said: Sorry, I can't take the leap from Paul being inspired by the spirit to stating that Maybe it's more about semantics for some but I shy away from claiming anyone's words are the words of Christ unless Christ said them Himself, that way there's no confusion. I do believe that there have been many who were filled with the Holy Spirit and indeed were inspired of God but I'd never go so far as to attribute anything they say to Christ. After all, though He had a higher calling, Paul, like you and me was only human. A bit silly I think. Yeshua did not write any of it down, his buddies did. We trust they got it correct like the rest of the stuff they penned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: A bit silly I think. Yeshua did not write any of it down, his buddies did. We trust they got it correct like the rest of the stuff they penned. I simply take it on Faith that God made sure that "his buddies" accurately reported the teachings of Christ. I also take it on Faith that the Apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit. I just don't like to conflate the two or state that any of the Apostles' words are the words of Christ if for no other reason but to save confusion among those who don't spend much time with studying such things in depth and thus might take things at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortangel Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 839 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 634 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/12/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 I think the Gospel is believeing & accepting Jesus into your heart as Lord & Savior & that he died for your sins & rose again & is coming back in the 2nd coming, you cannot earn your way to heaven, you must have faith in Christ's saveing power, his shed blood on Calvary 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,247 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,852 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 21 hours ago, unworthyservant said: BTW, thanks. And to answer your question, I agree that in a way Paul's take is Christ's take, but it's really in the end Paul's take on Christ's teachings. I guess I should maybe say Paul's commentary on Christ's teaching instead of using the word "take". I was just curious if you were meaning the conversation to be about the entire subject or limited to Paul's references to it. You need to get your act together, unworthyservant. If you cannot accept the writings of the whole bible, the inspired word of God, and only want to accept the "actual" words of Jesus written in "red the printers ink", your in deep dodo trouble. This is a method of "pick and choose" theology. Actual words of Jesus: "From two sources, one claiming 1026 words and the other 2024. That seems remarkably few words actually ascribed to Jesus in a book of over 800 000 words" 2 Tim. 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." The word "inspired" is θεόπνευστος theopneustos. It means God-breathed. ""In Genesis 3 where the devil says to Eve, "You surely shall not die!" (Gen. 3:4). The words are not "God breathed." But, the words are accurately recorded within the "God breathed" scriptures. This is what happened, and in the inspired word of God we can trust that the words are accurately represented and it is up to us to learn from what is recorded there"" "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me." Matthew 10:40 "Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’" Matthew 28:18-20 "I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me." John 13:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douge Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, unworthyservant said: Sorry, I can't take the leap from Paul being inspired by the spirit to stating that Maybe it's more about semantics for some but I shy away from claiming anyone's words are the words of Christ unless Christ said them Himself, that way there's no confusion. I do believe that there have been many who were filled with the Holy Spirit and indeed were inspired of God but I'd never go so far as to attribute anything they say to Christ. After all, though He had a higher calling, Paul, like you and me was only human. Hello Ok then but Peter is speaking of Paul's writings and says they are scripture; 2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. All scripture is God inspired 2 Timothy 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, unworthyservant said: Sorry, I can't take the leap from Paul being inspired by the spirit to stating that Maybe it's more about semantics for some but I shy away from claiming anyone's words are the words of Christ unless Christ said them Himself, that way there's no confusion. I do believe that there have been many who were filled with the Holy Spirit and indeed were inspired of God but I'd never go so far as to attribute anything they say to Christ. After all, though He had a higher calling, Paul, like you and me was only human. Every doctrine that we understand as "Church doctrine" was given to you, to me, to all the body of Christ, by Paul. Paul wrote most of the NT. Paul is the only apostle who told you to "be a follower of Me, as i follow Christ". Paul is the only apostle who was killed, went to heaven, and was raided from the dead. Peter, in 2nd Peter, said that Paul's letters are equal to the TORAH.....that is.....they are "scripture".......and that was before a New Testament was created that Peter is revealing that Paul's letters are more then just commentary. If a person who is a believer in Yeshua is ever going to come to understand the depth of redemption as THEOLOGY< then you study Paul's epistles, and you do it a LOT. Edited August 25, 2019 by Behold 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sower said: You need to get your act together, unworthyservant. If you cannot accept the writings of the whole bible, the inspired word of God, and only want to accept the "actual" words of Jesus written in "red the printers ink", your in deep dodo trouble. This is a method of "pick and choose" theology. Actual words of Jesus: "From two sources, one claiming 1026 words and the other 2024. That seems remarkably few words actually ascribed to Jesus in a book of over 800 000 words First, I accept the writings of the entire Bible, I just don't like to assign to Christ any that He didn't actually say. I don't pick or choose and if you'll read some of my other posts you'll see that those who do are a pet peeve of mine. I don't pick and choose but rather put things in perspective. So, if the words of Paul are seen in the light of the context of the words of Christ, then they can be better understood than the other way around. You mention the amount of words and while I haven't done a count, I'll take your word on that and just say that however many there are, I believe that the words of Christ are the most important ones in the New Testament and so all others should be seen in context of them and not the other way around. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, douge said: Hello Ok then but Peter is speaking of Paul's writings and says they are scripture; 2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. All scripture is God inspired 2 Timothy 3:16 They are all Scripture and all Scripture is inspired of God. I just don't believe that because they are Scripture and inspired, there is justification for crediting the words to Christ, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Behold said: Every doctrine that we understand as "Church doctrine" was given to you, to me, to all the body of Christ, by Paul. Paul wrote most of the NT. Paul is the only apostle who told you to "be a follower of Me, as i follow Christ". Paul is the only apostle who was killed, went to heaven, and was raided from the dead. Peter, in 2nd Peter, said that Paul's letters are equal to the TORAH.....that is.....they are "scripture".......and that was before a New Testament was created that Peter is revealing that Paul's letters are more then just commentary. If a person who is a believer in Yeshua is ever going to come to understand the depth of redemption as THEOLOGY< then you study Paul's epistles, and you do it a LOT. I beg to differ on your first point that "Every doctrine that we understand as "Church doctrine" was given to you, to me, to all the body of Christ, by Paul." I take exception to the use of the word "every" doctrine was given by Paul and that's exactly the problem. What about the doctrine of Christ? What about all the doctrines (whether true or false) that have been adopted over the centuries by various groups and have become part of the lexicon of "Church Doctrine". There's s reason that never is a word I seldom use and this is an example. I'll not comment further except to say that I have done quite extensive study of the writings of Paul and find them quite enlightening but I still study the teachings of Christ more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 25, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,653 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, unworthyservant said: I simply take it on Faith that God made sure that "his buddies" accurately reported the teachings of Christ. I also take it on Faith that the Apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit. I just don't like to conflate the two or state that any of the Apostles' words are the words of Christ if for no other reason but to save confusion among those who don't spend much time with studying such things in depth and thus might take things at face value. The same Holy Spirit that was in Jesus was in Paul. I trust that God the Holy Spirit spoke without error and that the original autographs are fully inspired of God and without error. To say that Paul was prone to error in his writing is much more misleading to new Christians. What is verbal plenary inspiration of the Bible? by Matt Slick 10/27/2014 Verbal plenary inspiration means that every word found in the Bible is given to us by God(verbal), everything in the Bible is authoritative (plenary), and every word is also divinely directed (inspired). But, this does not mean that everything referenced in the Bible is also morally proper. For example, the Bible might record someone's lie or a murder even though lying and murder are not approved of in Scripture. But the recording of the events is under the direction of God and is accurate. The verbal plenary inspiration applies to the original manuscripts, also known as the autographs. It was the originals that were penned by the prophets and apostles that were given by God, authoritative, and divinely directed. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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