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Signs in the heavens, the earth, and the sea?


luigi

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9 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

I quote it only because it's well known and you are correct in order to understand some of it requires a little knowledge of how the Royals spoke in 17th Century England. BTW, it is written in the King's English or the way that it was spoken in the Palace and not in common vernacular even of that day.

I remember this one time in our "KJV only" church, the pastor read a verse and then reworded it so everyone would better understand what it was really saying. My wife had her NIV version open and his rewording was word-for-word what was in her NIV.

My favorite is the ESV, partly because it's been updated with the latest text discoveries - specifically, the dead sea scrolls. 

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1 hour ago, luigi said:

Hello Diamond Member,

It's true that we cannot know the time of the end as the Lord states; nevertheless, the events during the end times we are suppose to recognize as Daniel 12:4 & 9 state these data will be unsealed and understood by many.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 

   I get you Luigi. Truly truly I tell you, in 1979 these verses sounded like their time had arrived. I won't be here in 2059. Pity, I would have loved to hear what you say then. 

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4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

... when He tames and Kills Leviathan, one of the Chaos Monsters.

The cataclysm at the end includes Bashan, The Gates of Hell, Hades, the Chaos Monsters and all kinds of upheavals in the heavens and the earth. It occurs between earth and heaven and the underworld and will probably make Star Wars seem like a romp in the park. ...

Hi Justin!

intriguing proper nouns you are referencing.  What are the Chaos Monsters?  What background are you referencing?

thanks much

lftc

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1 minute ago, lftc said:

Hi Justin!

intriguing proper nouns you are referencing.  What are the Chaos Monsters?  What background are you referencing?

thanks much

lftc

It has to do with Mt. Hermon and the Transfiguration signifying the beginning of the end for angelic disobedience. Bashan, the gates of Hell, the Leviathon and Behemoth underworld Chaos that is soon to reach fever pitch as the denizons of the deep and God's faithful holy ones (and humans) get into a terrific battle for the Mountain of the Lord or His Edenic Throne. It is all thru the Tanach and Daniel and Matt 24. Sumerian and Mesopotamian and Greek Mythology also support this theme. The contemporaries of the scripture writers knew all about this and used much of the current ideas of the times to describe end times. Daniel and Revelations pick up the story and embellish it. 

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8 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

It has to do with Mt. Hermon and the Transfiguration signifying the beginning of the end for angelic disobedience. Bashan, the gates of Hell, the Leviathon and Behemoth underworld Chaos that is soon to reach fever pitch as the denizons of the deep and God's faithful holy ones (and humans) get into a terrific battle for the Mountain of the Lord or His Edenic Throne. It is all thru the Tanach and Daniel and Matt 24. Sumerian and Mesopotamian and Greek Mythology also support this theme. The contemporaries of the scripture writers knew all about this and used much of the current ideas of the times to describe end times. Daniel and Revelations pick up the story and embellish it. 

Thanks much for the explanation. 

I know that some consider such topics to be dangerous as they can lead to "weird" theology.  But the scriptures do make some references to such things, and if we hold that the scriptures are to be believed, we have to do something with the weird references.  Just have to be careful at the same time, I suppose.

You might find this link interesting as it includes a bit of such analysis: https://soon.school.blog/2019/08/07/sodom-and-gomorrah/.   Although the main topic is an attempt to correctly understand the "why" of Sodom and Gomorrah, a topic somewhat closely related to the topic here as Jesus referenced the times of Sodom and Gomorrah when prophesying.

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4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Global warming is an overblown so-called scientific theory. It has all kinds of adherents who all want money to fix it. It is largely hyperbole by armchair scientists and those wanting to sell fix-it publications. It is irrelevant to God's designs when He tames and Kills Leviathan, one of the Chaos Monsters.

The cataclysm at the end includes Bashan, The Gates of Hell, Hades, the Chaos Monsters and all kinds of upheavals in the heavens and the earth. It occurs between earth and heaven and the underworld and will probably make Star Wars seem like a romp in the park. From the various descriptions in the scriptures, it is where heaven meets hell and humans and holy ones fight unholy denizens of the deep as they contend for God's Mountain (Eden).

Has nothing to do with the environment 'getting worse' and has everything to do with MAJOR WORLDLY  CATACLYSMS.

As on earth, so in heaven. 

This agrees with Revelation 12:

Rev 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Just think when the devil (and his angels) is fought against and cast down to the earth out of his place as prince of the power of the air.......it doesn't seem surprising at all if that will manifest in atmospheric and cosmic disturbances, and the earth reeling to and fro like a drunkard!

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Yeshua said He saw him fall like a star... the beginning of the end.

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6 hours ago, luigi said:

In the Olivets, the Lord describes signs in the heavens, the earth, and the seas occurring during the end of the current age (Luke 21:25).
Men's hearts will fail them due to their perceiving that the environment is only going to get worse (Luke 21:26).
To me these signs appear like what is currently transpiring in the environment due to global warming, which is picking up speed, and according to the majority consensus will become significantly more severe.
The alternative perspective among many religious organizations is that the signs will be supernatural in nature.
So here is the question: If the current distress of nations with perplexity is due to increase as the environment continues to deteriorate as the scientific consensus claims; how then will we know the difference between any supposed supernatural signs in the heavens, the earth, and the sea, from those the scientific consensus already recognizes will occur due to mankind's destruction of the environment?

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

It may be that there isn't really a big gap between the spiritual/miraculous and what we think of as the physical world, but might be more of an overlap... with heavenly/spiritual realities affecting the physical realm.  Even when science has plausible explanations for 'natural' occurrences it doesn't mean God's hand is not in it.....everything we can see and touch is still a miracle....created and sustained by God, who set everything in motion and knows everything that will happen from the beginning.  There are scientific explanations for the conception and development of a baby in the womb, yet the Lord still calls this process an act of His "creating", and He says that HE knit us together in our mother's wombs.

So whether things happen 'naturally' or miraculously, I believe we can still regard it all as coming from the Lord.

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5 hours ago, luigi said:

There is no fixing the environment at the moment, until the conclusion of the two witnesses testimony, at which time the Lord will commence to destroy those who are destroying the earth (Revelation 11:18).

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

...talking about both man and devil who destroy the earth, I believe.

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1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

I agree with you, except I would replace your use of the word, "these" with the word, "the". 

I believe knowledge is increasing and has been ever since Jesus walked the earth. And it will be exponential in the end. 

OK, if we are not in these end times, then the end times would be further forward than current situations.

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