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The fulness of the Gentiles

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One of the great overlooked or misunderstood concepts is What the "fulness of the Gentiles" entails. 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness G4138 of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25)

Most scholars and commentaries say this is a marker of when the dispensation of the Gentiles reverts back to the Jews in Israel, That the number of Gentiles to be saved according to God's predestination is reached. If reading the text, it is easy to make this assumption. But often overlooked is the meaning of the Word "fulness", which I believe points to a completion, not of the number of people but of the Quality of those Gentiles, a state of fulness in Christ Jesus. I am not going to get into a big long study of this Word, which is plērōma The meanings I want to draw your attention to are as follows: that which is (has been) filled, in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ. 

What if this Mystery is not speaking of the Number of gentiles that fill the Boat so to speak, But the Fulness of Christ in them that is indicative of an end time prophetic fulfillment? Let's take a look at some other verses that discuss this. You will note that these verses all come from Ephesians.

That in the dispensation of the fulness G4138 of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (Eph 1:10) 

In this first verse we see the fulness of times, Pointing to the end of this Gentile dispensation, And this verse speaks of the gathering together as one, all things in Christ Jesus. As we Go on here you will see that this end time fulfillment is of this end time Unity which we will all be a part of.

Which is his body, the fulness G4138 of him that filleth all in all. (Eph 1:23)

This final statement of this powerful prayer (Eph. 1;17-23) Is Pointing us to reach a point of complete fulness in Christ Jesus, with him being our all in all. What this is speaking about is a filling with Christ, where there once was the doctrines and knowledge of man, The wisdom of God filling us as opposed to the Wisdom of Man. This is the starting point where He is able to fill us. I have mentioned this here before but it is the point when we respond to Jesus Questions, not with the pride of our own understanding, Instead we respond as Ezekiel did when asked if these dry bones could live with "LORD thou knowest" (Eze. 37:3) 

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness G4138 of God. (Eph 3:19) 

This verse, located in the second powerful prayer in Ephesians (3:14-21), Points us to yet another step in this final filling process, which is to be filled with the LOVE of Christ, Which surpasses, or exceeds Knowledge (Gnosis) of Him. So to this point , we have replaced the Wisdom of men, with the Wisdom of God, with a heart that is receptive to his teaching, and replaced our earthly knowledge of Him with His Love for us, which is speaking of the intimacy of this relationship, and the filling of us with his Love. 

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness G4138 of Christ: (Eph 4:13)

This final step is the Unity, and fulness we arrive at, "unto a perfect man" when we arrive at the fulness of Christ. 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Thus the Fulness of the gentiles is not so much a number of saved people reached with the Gospel, But a Maturity of relationship that we attain in the end times shortly before we are removed and replaced by Israel and their dispensation known as the final week for them. 

Jesus used the analogy of wineskins and old garments to describe this, as this is in essence what is happening to us, We have removed the Old, so that he can fill us with the new. No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. (Mat. 9:16-17)

If this has spoken to you, these two great prayers in Ephesians are where you begin. We are not speaking of salvation here, we are speaking of what happens to us when we are sanctified By the Holy Ghost, the next step in our walk is to take that new wineskin and fill it with Christ Jesus. Be warned, though, as with any clean house, the demons are lurking awaiting to return unto it with their friends...Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.(Matt. 12;44-45)

you must open the door to Christ Jesus.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev. 3;20)

 

 

 

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Jesus said, 'Make Disciples Of All Nations.' Not Make All Nations Disciples.

Jesus said, the kingdom of heaven is like a net cast into the sea gathering fish Of Every Kind.

Jesus said, this gospel will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the Nations then the end will come.

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On 8/29/2019 at 6:16 PM, dhchristian said:

One of the great overlooked or misunderstood concepts is What the "fulness of the Gentiles" entails. 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness G4138 of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25)

Most scholars and commentaries say this is a marker of when the dispensation of the Gentiles reverts back to the Jews in Israel, That the number of Gentiles to be saved according to God's predestination is reached. If reading the text, it is easy to make this assumption. But often overlooked is the meaning of the Word "fulness", which I believe points to a completion, not of the number of people but of the Quality of those Gentiles, a state of fulness in Christ Jesus. I am not going to get into a big long study of this Word, which is plērōma The meanings I want to draw your attention to are as follows: that which is (has been) filled, in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ. 

What if this Mystery is not speaking of the Number of gentiles that fill the Boat so to speak, But the Fulness of Christ in them that is indicative of an end time prophetic fulfillment? Let's take a look at some other verses that discuss this. You will note that these verses all come from Ephesians.

That in the dispensation of the fulness G4138 of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (Eph 1:10) 

In this first verse we see the fulness of times, Pointing to the end of this Gentile dispensation, And this verse speaks of the gathering together as one, all things in Christ Jesus. As we Go on here you will see that this end time fulfillment is of this end time Unity which we will all be a part of.

Which is his body, the fulness G4138 of him that filleth all in all. (Eph 1:23)

This final statement of this powerful prayer (Eph. 1;17-23) Is Pointing us to reach a point of complete fulness in Christ Jesus, with him being our all in all. What this is speaking about is a filling with Christ, where there once was the doctrines and knowledge of man, The wisdom of God filling us as opposed to the Wisdom of Man. This is the starting point where He is able to fill us. I have mentioned this here before but it is the point when we respond to Jesus Questions, not with the pride of our own understanding, Instead we respond as Ezekiel did when asked if these dry bones could live with "LORD thou knowest" (Eze. 37:3) 

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness G4138 of God. (Eph 3:19) 

This verse, located in the second powerful prayer in Ephesians (3:14-21), Points us to yet another step in this final filling process, which is to be filled with the LOVE of Christ, Which surpasses, or exceeds Knowledge (Gnosis) of Him. So to this point , we have replaced the Wisdom of men, with the Wisdom of God, with a heart that is receptive to his teaching, and replaced our earthly knowledge of Him with His Love for us, which is speaking of the intimacy of this relationship, and the filling of us with his Love. 

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness G4138 of Christ: (Eph 4:13)

This final step is the Unity, and fulness we arrive at, "unto a perfect man" when we arrive at the fulness of Christ. 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Thus the Fulness of the gentiles is not so much a number of saved people reached with the Gospel, But a Maturity of relationship that we attain in the end times shortly before we are removed and replaced by Israel and their dispensation known as the final week for them. 

Jesus used the analogy of wineskins and old garments to describe this, as this is in essence what is happening to us, We have removed the Old, so that he can fill us with the new. No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. (Mat. 9:16-17)

If this has spoken to you, these two great prayers in Ephesians are where you begin. We are not speaking of salvation here, we are speaking of what happens to us when we are sanctified By the Holy Ghost, the next step in our walk is to take that new wineskin and fill it with Christ Jesus. Be warned, though, as with any clean house, the demons are lurking awaiting to return unto it with their friends...Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.(Matt. 12;44-45)

you must open the door to Christ Jesus.  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev. 3;20)

 

 

 

I like what you say here.   But I would say that it is more than just the (short)  period of time BEFORE he comes,  unless you are pointing to the specific time of the advent return of Jesus at the time of Armageddon.   In which case,  I would agree with you in that it refers to the final glorification of the body of Christ...saved Gentiles at the time of the rapture and afterward those elect of Israel and the  (remaining) fullness of the Gentiles comes in during the final period of 42 months when the times of the Gentiles have been fulfilled.  In summary,  I guess what I am saying is that the "times of the Gentiles, Luke 21:24" is not simply referring to their trampling down of Jerusalem,  but rather this trampling of Jerusalem IS the state of affairs (of the world during the mark of the beast) that results in the final harvest of the Gentiles... after the rapture! 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

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On 8/29/2019 at 6:16 PM, dhchristian said:

That in the dispensation of the fulness G4138 of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (Eph 1:10) 

In this first verse we see the fulness of times, Pointing to the end of this Gentile dispensation, And this verse speaks of the gathering together as one, all things in Christ Jesus. As we Go on here you will see that this end time fulfillment is of this end time Unity which we will all be a part of.

 

Why would you compare the fulness of the Gentiles to the fulness of times?  They are not the same whatsoever.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The gathering at the fulness of times is a gathering of the Gentiles from heaven and a gathering of the 12 tribes from the earth. The Church is in heaven after the pretribulation rapture occurs. (the fulness of the Gentiles comes in) They are gathered from heaven. The gathering from the earth is the 12 tribes. After the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, God turns his attention to the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. They are the ones that are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

When this gathering occurs the kings of the earth will know that the wrath of God is about to occur. That is the beginning of the Day of the Lord.  See Rev 6.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

I like what you say here.   But I would say that it is more than just the (short)  period of time BEFORE he comes,  unless you are pointing to the specific time of the advent return of Jesus at the time of Armageddon.   In which case,  I would agree with you in that it refers to the final glorification of the body of Christ...saved Gentiles at the time of the rapture and afterward those elect of Israel and the  (remaining) fullness of the Gentiles comes in during the final period of 42 months when the times of the Gentiles have been fulfilled.  In summary,  I guess what I am saying is that the "times of the Gentiles, Luke 21:24" is not simply referring to their trampling down of Jerusalem,  but rather this trampling of Jerusalem IS the state of affairs (of the world during the mark of the beast) that results in the final harvest of the Gentiles... after the rapture! 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

There are not many who agree with me on the following...

The Way I see it, Is that this is available to us now, But because most of the Gentile believers will not accept and believe this (Partial unbelief), they will in turn be forced into the Wilderness, just like Israel, so that they will learn to trust in God's provision and enter his fulness. Thus extending the time of the Gentiles into the first half of the final week for Israel. Think of it this way, Although Caleb and Joshua Believed in God in full trust, they still had to deal with the wilderness for 40 years along with the rest of Israel which did not believe. Moses, the Leader of Israel never entered the promised land, and neither did any of the generation who came out of Egypt with Moses except Joshua and Caleb. IF this is a shadow of things to come, Then What? Peter warned...17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Peter 4:17-18)

I see the failure of this end time church living in lukewarmness (partial unbelief) indicative of this extension of the time of the gentiles into the final week for Israel. 

Just now, The Light said:

Why would you compare the fulness of the Gentiles to the fulness of times?  They are not the same whatsoever.

Read the Above and you will understand why I think this way. I Think that God Knew of this end time church's failure and accounted for that in Revelation. If I am right this should cause all believers to re-evaluate their faith, But as is always the case when I present this message the denial and self deception overcomes the need for repentance. 

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2 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

There are not many who agree with me on the following...

The Way I see it, Is that this is available to us now, But because most of the Gentile believers will not accept and believe this (Partial unbelief), they will in turn be forced into the Wilderness, just like Israel, so that they will learn to trust in God's provision and enter his fulness. Thus extending the time of the Gentiles into the first half of the final week for Israel. Think of it this way, Although Caleb and Joshua Believed in God in full trust, they still had to deal with the wilderness for 40 years along with the rest of Israel which did not believe. Moses, the Leader of Israel never entered the promised land, and neither did any of the generation who came out of Egypt with Moses except Joshua and Caleb. IF this is a shadow of things to come, Then What? Peter warned...17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Peter 4:17-18)

I see the failure of this end time church living in lukewarmness (partial unbelief) indicative of this extension of the time of the gentiles into the final week for Israel. 

Read the Above and you will understand why I think this way. I Think that God Knew of this end time church's failure and accounted for that in Revelation. If I am right this should cause all believers to re-evaluate their faith, But as is always the case when I present this message the denial and self deception overcomes the need for repentance. 

I agree that we should not disequate the fullness of the Gentiles with the period that precedes the blindness being removed from Israel.   We currently live in the times of the Gentiles.   The fullness of (the times of) the Gentiles will run concurrently with the removal of Israel's blindness. 

 
Rom 11:19-22 KJV    Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

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25 minutes ago, dhchristian said:
Quote

Read the Above and you will understand why I think this way

I read the above and understood why you thought that way.

I then showed you the flaw in your logic.

The fulness of the Gentiles has absolutely nothing to do with the fulness of times

Quote

If I am right this should cause all believers to re-evaluate their faith, But as is always the case when I present this message the denial and self deception overcomes the need for repentance. 

Your premise that the fulness of the Gentiles has something to do with the fulness of times is in error. Therefore the message regarding it is not applicable brother.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Light said:

Your premise that the fulness of the Gentiles has something to do with the fulness of times is in error. Therefore the message regarding it is not applicable brother.

My point in the OP is that the fulness of the gentiles is a Quality, and not a quantity. That Quality is made possible by the fulness of times... In other words by the fact that we are living in the time of the end. Unless you are a watchmen you may not see this, and how close we are to these things coming to be. 

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I am tending to agree with the OP...up to now we have only received the earnest of the Holy Spirit, guaranteeing what is to come.  And what are the birth pangs of the last days for if not to bring something to birth.

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37 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

My point in the OP is that the fulness of the gentiles is a Quality, and not a quantity. That Quality is made possible by the fulness of times... In other words by the fact that we are living in the time of the end. Unless you are a watchmen you may not see this, and how close we are to these things coming to be. 

Maybe have a look at the book of Esther my friend, and see if you see the last days depicted there and a triumphant victorious church.  (Even though suffering......since it is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom of heaven.)

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