Jump to content
IGNORED

Christendom: A "Little Flock"? No!


JAG**

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

"Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom."__Luke 12:32

Some Bible interpreters have focused on the phrase "little flock" in Luke 12:32 and have erroneously
proclaimed that Christendom is always going to be relatively small numerically. After all the verse
says "little flock" so they conclude that "little flock" is a general characterization of the numerical size
of Christendom for all of human history. Their interpretation and application of "little flock" is obviously
incorrect.

"As of the year 2015, Christianity has more than 2.3 billion adherents, out of about 7.5 billion people. The
faith represents one-third of the world's population and is the largest religion in the world, with the three
largest groups being the Catholic Church, Protestantism, and the Eastern Orthodox Church."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country



Clearly, Christianity is not now a "little flock" and it is impossible to interpret the Bible as teaching that the
Christian Church is always going to be a "little flock." When was Christianity a "little flock"? Answer: It was
a "little flock" at the time the Lord Jesus spoke the words of Luke 12:32. At that time there was probably less
than 300 Christians in the entire world of the 1st century. The Christian Church is not a "little flock" now and
will never again be a "little flock."

Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18
God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the
heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be
blessed."

(1) stars
(2) grains of sand on the seashore
(3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul
teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.)

How many stars are there in the universe? If you google that question, you'll get something like this:
"Multiplying the number of galaxies, which is about 2 trillion, by the 100 million stars in a galaxy suggests
there could be about 10 raised to the 20th power stars in the universe."

That would be trillions and trillions of stars.

Then there is the matter of numerous "as the sand which is on the seashore" phrase in Genesis 22:17-18. How
many grains of sand is there on the seashores of the world? Trillions and trillions to be sure.

Clearly the descendants of Abraham, which includes all of Christendom, are going to be huge in numbers.

Compare Revelation 7: 9-12

 

 
"After this I looked and saw a multitude to large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation to our God,

who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!”

And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
Note the phrase that says, "I saw a multitude to large to count."
Note the phrase that says, "from every nation and tribe and tongue."
Clearly Christendom is going to be huge-enormous in numbers before
human history comes to an end.

The human race is now in its infancy. Its only a few days old, historically
speaking. In the mega millenniums yet ahead the Christian Church will
grow in numbers so that the final numbers will be as the stars in the
heavens and as numerous as the grains of sand on the seashores of the
world.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18
God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the
heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be
blessed."

(1) stars
(2) grains of sand on the seashore
(3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul
teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.)

 

Compare Galatians 3:6-9

"So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”Understand, then, that those who have faith are the sons of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith."

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

From the OP

 
Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18
God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the
heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be
blessed."
 
(1) stars
(2) grains of sand on the seashore
(3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul
teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.)

Compare: Hebrews 11:11-12
By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore."

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

It is helpful to compare Revelation 7: 9-12 . . . . .
 

 
After this I looked and saw a multitude to large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation to our God,

who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!”

And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen.” . . . . . .

with The Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20
 

 
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go andmake disciples of all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”



Compare the phrase "every nation" of Revelation 7 with the "all nations" of Matthew 28. We see that The Great Commission was indeed carried out successfully, seeing as how at the end of human history the numbers of the saved are so large that they are a "multitude to large to count."

The important elements of The Great Commission are (1) that Christ now has all authority both in Heaven and on Earth and the goal is to (2) make disciples of all nations.
The fact that Christ now has all authority both in Heaven and on Earth is the POWER that made possible the success of The Great Commission as recorded in Revelation 7: 9-12

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Some believe that the numbers of Christendom will be "few".

And how do you get "few" out of this?

"As of the year 2015, Christianity has more than 2.3 billion adherents, out of about 7.5 billion people. The
faith represents one-third of the world's population and is the largest religion in the world, with the three
largest groups being the Catholic Church, Protestantism, and the Eastern Orthodox Church."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

And how do you get "few" out of this?

Genesis 22:17-18
God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the
heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be
blessed."

There are trillions of stars and trillions of grains of sand on the seashore. how do you get "few" out of this?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline


And how do you get "few" out of this NEW TESTAMENT statement?

Hebrews 11:11-12
By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child,
because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead,

me descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore."

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

By the way, the Lord Jesus' statement in Matthew 16:18 . . . .
`

 


"Upon this rock
I will build my church,
and the gates of Hell will
not overcome it",



. . . . when read in light of all the verses in the OP and my other posts, is very encouraging because we are
compelled to conclude that His "my church" is going to be huge-enormous in numbers. And we would
naturally expect this from the God who NEVER does anything on a small dinky scale (for example just look
up at the number of stars in the sky --- just look at the size of His Universe.)

Note on the phrase "this rock":
(1) Did the Lord Jesus mean by that:
(1) Himself ie the church will be built on Christ the Rock
(2) Peter himself
(3) Peter as representing Apostolic Authority

I would speculate and select (1) and (3).

For certain (1) and (3) is the reality. The Christian
Church is indeed built upon the Rock of the Lord Jesus
and it is indeed built upon Christ's personally chosen
apostles (Apostolic Authority.)

But the point of this post is that His "my Church" is going
to be huge-enormous in the final numbers of the saved.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

But what about the Bible verse that says this:

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction,
and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Common sense compels the sane interpreter to give Matthew 7:13-14 an interpretation that does not deny reality. You
can interpret Matthew 7:13-14 as having application only to the people of that time period. If you apply Matthew 7:13-14
to all of human history you end up with an interpretation that contradicts other clear Bible verses (see the OP and my other
posts in this thread.)

To apply Matthew 7:13-14 to the entire human race and to all of human history makes God a moral monster, for that would
mean that He started a program knowing that the vast majority of His creatures were going to spend an eternity screaming
in eternal Hell. What kind of a God would do a thing like that?

Its absurd to suggest that there are only a few true Christians in the world today. There are over 16,000,000 Southern
Baptist in the United States, that number alone does not harmonize with the concept of only a few are saved. And there
is no reason for you to doubt the profession of faith of the world's 2.3 billion Christians anymore than it is for them to doubt
your profession of faith. 

In another vein, its a good rule of interpretation that says you never interpret a verse of Scripture
in a way that contradicts another clear verse of Scripture, and to interpret Matthew 7:13-14 in
such a way that flatly contradicts "I saw a multitude to large to count from every nation and tribe
and people and tongue" is not a good thing to do. Its not practicing sound hermeneutics.

I asked the web "How many Protestants are in the world today?" and I got
this response:

There are more than

900 million

Protestants worldwide,

among approximately 2.4 billion Christians. In 2010, a total
of more than 800 million included 300 million in Sub-Saharan
Africa, 260 million in the Americas, 140 million in Asia-Pacific
region, 100 million in Europe and 2 million in Middle East-North
Africa."

I have no reason to doubt the salvation of these 900 million of my fellow Protestants.

And 900,000,000 Protestant Christians in the world today is not a "few" that found it.

Its simply bad interpretation to apply "only a few find it" to all of human history. Doing that
reduces Christianity to absurdity.


 

 

Edited by JAG**
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  105
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  541
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   207
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/06/2016
  • Status:  Offline

To those who are looking for Christian optimism, I offer this:

The Lord Jesus' Great Commission will be carried out successfully. The entire world will
be Christianized as human history moves forward as mega millenniums unfold on the time
line of Church history.

At the end of Matthew's gospel in chapter 28 the Lord Jesus gave His disciples a command
to go and make disciples of all the nations teaching them to obey everything He had
commanded His apostles to put into practice. The POWER behind the certain success
of Jesus' Great Commission to His apostles was His statement that "all authority in heaven
and earth has been given to me." He then said "therefore" go and make disciples of all the
nations. THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. Nothing can stop that. All the nations eventually are
going to become disciples of the Lord Jesus. Again why? Because ALL AUTHORITY in both
heaven and earth has been given to the Lord Jesus THEREFORE go and make disciples of
all the nations of the earth. The issue is not will this happen. That's already a settled issue.
The only issue is how long will it take. Its going to take a long time. The human race is now
in its infancy. We are only a few weeks old, historically speaking. We have mega millenniums
yet ahead for the Christian Church to successfully carry out the Great Commission.

Question: Are you reader, willing to hold and teach that the Lord Jesus will FAIL? You only have
two choices here:

(1) All authority in Heaven and Earth has been given to the Lord Jesus, THEREFORE He said
go into all the world and make disciples of all the nations. This will actually happen. The task
and command that Jesus gave to His church here will be successfully carried out before history
comes to an end.

(2) Jesus will FAIL in His plan to have all the nations discipled. Even though he has now been
given all authority in Heaven and Earth, He will still FAIL and all nations will NOT be made His
disciples.

The Lord's Great Commission To His Christian Church:
Meanwhile, the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him, but some doubted.

Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go andmake disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Matthew 28:16-20

Here in revelation 7: 9-12 we have the fulfillment of the Great Commission of Matthew 28.
 

 
The Fulfillment Of The Lord's Great Commission To His Christian Church:
After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

Salvation to our God,

who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb!

And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, saying, Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever! Amen.



You must choose either (1) or (2). There is no other choice. Jesus either FAILS or He is SUCCESSFUL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...