OneLight Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.26 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2019 @JAG** Do you honestly think that all those who profess to be Christians are true Christians? Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, OneLight said: @JAG** Do you honestly think that all those who profess to be Christians are true Christians? No I do not. I never said that I thought that. I never one time even hinted that I believed all those who profess to be Christians are true Christians. Also this: To ask that question is to miss the whole and entire point of the Opening Post and all my other posts in this thread. The point of this thread and my other posts in this thread is to say that Christendom is no longer a little flock and no longer has just a few true believers. Lets take just the Protestants. There are 900,000,000 Protestants in the world today. I have no reason to believe that the vast majority of my fellow Protestants are not true Christians. Just consider the Southern Baptist by themselves: There are some 16,000,000 Southern Baptists in the world today. I have no reason to believe that the vast majority of the Southern Baptists are not true Christians. And 16,000,000 is not just a few and not a little flock either. _________ But speculation about who is or in not a true Christian is not essential to the point of this thread. The proposition of this thread is based on clear Bible verses that say with absolute certainty that the final number of the saved is going to be HUGE-ENORMOUS. Here are just two verses that clearly say that: Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18 God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed." (1) stars (2) grains of sand on the seashore (3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.) Compare: Hebrews 11:11-12 with Genesis 22:17-18 "By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.95 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 hours ago, JAG** said: Is Christendom going to end up being a little flock? Yes or no? I realize Jesus did say in Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. I would think this pertains to the consideration that our Saviour was called to His own primarily. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. KJV And then again He also said in John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them I must also bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. KJV And to this would be pertaining to the calling to His other or secondary chosen if you will, the Gentile nation. In which the Apostle Paul confirmed in Romans 1:16 - the Jew first, and then to the Gentile - (Weymouth Bible) So in regards to will Christendom end up being a big or little flock? We also have to consider the aspect that the majority of today's Jewish nation as a whole, have rejected Christ as Saviour and Lord. So far, that is. And there is also this verse as well, and what it means. Zechariah 12:10 10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. KJV Prophesy of course, and I'd like to remain on topic as you've requested. How many of God's Chosen will turn to Christ? Only our Heavenly Father knows these things. Some do believe all of Israel will be saved, but I can't make that call, unfortunately. We shall see. 3 hours ago, JAG** said: So do you agree that the final number of the saved is going to be comparable to the number of stars in the sky and the number of grains of sand on the seashore? Ah! A loaded question. This promise to Abraham foretold, pertains to the number of His Chosen once again. And that being, that they will be virtually countless. His people fill the earth's inhabitants, yes? Will the entirety of the House of Israel be saved though? Only those who will come to accept Jesus as the Christ. John 14:6 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. KJV Those who do not, cannot be saved. Only our Father in Heaven knows these things. I Hope this answers your questions with some reasonable consideration of the time spent in giving you what you've requested of me. It was my labor of love in Christ to you, even though you say I have the maturity of a third grader. God bless! Shalom, David/BeauJangles P.S. All will do this. Romans 14:11 11For it is written, As I live, saith the LORD, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Philippians 2:9-11 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father. Isaiah 45:23 23I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekoudah Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 302 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 624 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) Christendom is for the masses...but the disciples of Christ are still a tiny flock. The ease with which people are declared Christian these days stem from a mass marketing strategy to get as many people as possible into the pews. This gives an aura of success at a time where the church is without power or influence in the world. We "dumbed" down the message to fit more people in. The narrow road got a whole lot wider..at least in our own human efforts at spreading a gospel lacking in truth.. We made carnality OK by focusing only on forgiveness rather than the power over sin that is the gift of grace from God. People are being catered to and God is seen as the servant of man...it's all about getting "saved" now. But God isn't being served...and neither is His kingdom being entered into. There is a lot of religious smoke and mirrors. But God will have the final say on whom He accepts. We are in for a lot of shocks and surprises on that day when God judges His own house. Judgment begins at God's house. Edited September 2, 2019 by Pekoudah 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 33 minutes ago, nzkev said: Ok Well you said The entire world wil be Christianized as human history moves forward as mega millenniums unfold on the time line of Church history. The thing is if your point was simply the number in Heaven will be huge, I doubt many would disagree with you, But after a lot of posts there is more to your point than just that, If I take that line and what your hinting the entire world will be delivered by Grace, You are trying to eliminate Hell Do you believe there is a Hell and some people will go There? Thank you for your response. When I said the entire world will be Christianized I meant in the general sense that all nations will be discipled according to the Lord's Great Commission given to His Christian church at the end of Matthew's gospel. The Lord was not kidding when he told His Christian Church to go and make disciples of all the nations teaching them to obey what I He has commanded. He then said that all power had been given Him in Heaven and on Earth. So then His power is what makes certain that His Great Commission will be successfully carried out by His people as the future millenniums unfold. The above does NOT mean that every single person in all the future generations will be saved. Yes I do believe there is a Hell. So no I am not trying to eliminate Hell. And yes I do believe that some people will go there. Again, the point of my Opening Post and all my other posts in this thread is that the final number of the saved will be HUGE-ENORMOUS and therefore it cannot truthfully be said that Christendom is now a little flock and it cannot be truthfully said that only a few will be saved. Moreover it cannot truthfully be said that Christendom will ever again be a little flock or will ever again be numerically just a few saved. There was a time in the first century when Christianity was a little flock and had just a few converts, but that time is gone forever never to become reality again. How do I k now that? Because of all the Bible verses that I have posted in this thread that absolutely compel the Bible believer to believe that the final number of the saved will be like the number of stars in the sky and like the number of the grains of sand on the seashores of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, BeauJangles said: I realize . . . . Thank you Beaujangles for taking the time to reply. It was a well written post and I read every word of it. God bless you too. /smile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.95 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted September 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, JAG** said: Thank you Beaujangles for taking the time to reply. It was a well written post and I read every word of it. God bless you too. /smile You're most welcome, and thanks for the positive comment. I think we are both in agreement that there has been a very large and seemingly countless number who have answered the call upon their lives. And yes, there shall be numerous souls in in Heaven. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, BeauJangles said: You're most welcome, and thanks for the positive comment. I think we are both in agreement that there has been a very large and seemingly countless number who have answered the call upon their lives. And yes, there shall be numerous souls in in Heaven. Amen! /Amen for sure on all of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.26 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 hours ago, JAG** said: No I do not. I never said that I thought that. I never one time even hinted that I believed all those who profess to be Christians are true Christians. Also this: To ask that question is to miss the whole and entire point of the Opening Post and all my other posts in this thread. The point of this thread and my other posts in this thread is to say that Christendom is no longer a little flock and no longer has just a few true believers. Lets take just the Protestants. There are 900,000,000 Protestants in the world today. I have no reason to believe that the vast majority of my fellow Protestants are not true Christians. Just consider the Southern Baptist by themselves: There are some 16,000,000 Southern Baptists in the world today. I have no reason to believe that the vast majority of the Southern Baptists are not true Christians. And 16,000,000 is not just a few and not a little flock either. _________ But speculation about who is or in not a true Christian is not essential to the point of this thread. The proposition of this thread is based on clear Bible verses that say with absolute certainty that the final number of the saved is going to be HUGE-ENORMOUS. Here are just two verses that clearly say that: Take a look at Genesis 22:17-18 God said to Abraham, "indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore . . . and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed." (1) stars (2) grains of sand on the seashore (3) all nations of the earth shall be blessed through Abraham's descendants. (In Romans the Apostle Paul teaches that the Christian Church is the spiritual children of Abraham.) Compare: Hebrews 11:11-12 with Genesis 22:17-18 "By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the opportune age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore." I fully understand your point, and it is to teach. The problem with how you are going about it, in my opinion, is that you are not clear in what you are trying to say. You just throw out number to inflate your theory, as you did in the post I responded to, and expect us to just accept it without ever asking a question, which leads me to another point - you are too angry to teach people. One question and you fly into a defensive mode. Good Luck and God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted September 2, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, BeauJangles said: I realize Jesus did say in Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. ... Beau I wanted to pick on this one part of your well written post. There is a FUNDAMENTAL doctrine in Hebrews 6 that Paul tells us is SO foundational, we cannot have laid in us the foundation of "Jesus Christ" without understanding it. It's called a 'MILK' doctrine....a begginner's food and it is described as "eternal judgement". IF that is studied out, you may discover that "called" but not "chosen" is NOT equal to being lost. That was a misconception before i did the study, and since i have done it, i can tell MANY believe as I once did. There are a number of "triplets" that appear with reference to the overall doctrine of "eternal judgement" and one is: called, chosen and faithful the called ARE saved, when you understand the way the Bible uses the word...and study out the contexts where it is used. There are other "triplets" that bear on the same topic such as: slave, bond-servant and son seeing, entering and INHERITING the Kingdom understanding those is critical and the fact so few have seen the necesssity of studying out "eternal judgement" has left a LOT of misconceptions among people who truly love Him. but it bears a lot of insight into this very topic. When we realize that in the Bible's terminology who are "called" ARE born again, this question of overall "numbers" is impacted......and it will be HUGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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