Jump to content
IGNORED

ECF were on the whole YEC


DignifiedResponse

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

Ellet Joseph Waggoner (1855-1904) -
 
"... "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter iii. 8. {December 20, 1894 EJW, PTUK 804.8}

God "inhabiteth eternity." The flight of time makes no difference with His plans. Compared with His eternity, the entire six thousand years of earth's existence is but a span. Says the Psalmist, "For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." Ps. xc. 4. Therefore the apostle concludes that "the Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness." That which seems to men forgetfulness of the promise, is only a kindly delay to allow dilatory men to secure the promise. In God's reckoning, it is only as the three days' grace which men allow for the payment of a promissory note. {December 20, 1894 EJW, PTUK 804.9}

It should not be forgotten that while [805] a thousand years is with the Lord as one day, one day is as a thousand years. This is too often overlooked. While He may take a thousand years for the fulfilment of a promise, and then it will be the same as though performed the next day, He can do in one day the work of a thousand years. Therefore there is no warrant for settling down to carnal ease, thinking that it will necessarily be a long time yet before the work of God on earth can be accomplished. "For He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness; because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth." Rom. ix. 26. {December 20, 1894 EJW, PTUK 804.10} ..." - The Present Truth [UK] Articles (1887-1904); Volume 10 (1894); December 20, 1894; pages 804.8-804.10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

S. Peacock (and edited by Alfred Edersheim) (1880) -
 
"... 3. The 6,000 years from the Creation terminate about 1890.
 
It has been an old belief that the world would have a week of 6,000 years' work, and then a rest of 1,000 years--a Millennial Sabbath!
 
But it may be argued that A.D. 1890 would not be 6,000 years, only 5,894, if the birth of Christ were in the year of the world 4,004, as usually stated in Reference Bibles, because 1,890 added to 4,004 [left hand column to right hand column] only amounts to 5,894. ...
 
It may never have occurred to our readers that the passage in 2 Peter iii. 8, "One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day," singularly bears out the theory of 6,000 years. Thus a day=1,000 years--6 days=6,000 years; or, on the other hand, 1,000 years=one day--6,000 years=6 days, or the world's week. ..." - Israel's Watchman & Prophetic Expositor; and The Prophetic News; edited by Alfred Edersheim; W. W. Partridge & Co.; 56 Paternoster Row. London. January, 1880; section Is the close to be about 1890? by Rev. S. Peacock, Barrowden, Rutland, page 239 – https://books.google.com/books?id=UgIFAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

Cambridge Greek New Testament on 2 Peter & Jude (1916) –

"... 8. ὑμᾶς, emphatic, opposed to αὐτούς in 2 Peter 3:5. [page 30-31]

[page 31] Not only are the mockers mistaken as to the immutability of the world: they forget also (but you must not) that time is nothing in God’s sight. He delays His vengeance in mercy, but it will come.

μία ἡμέρα κ.τ.λ. The words go back to Psalms 90:4 χίλια ἔτη ἐν ὀφθαλμοῖς σου ὡς ἡ ἡμέρα ἡ ἐχθὲς ἥτις διῆλθεν, καὶ φυλακὴ ἐν νυκτί.

The writer does not apply the words in a sense which very usually attached to them among Jews and Christians. The belief arose (we cannot exactly trace by what steps), that since the world had been created in six days, and since a day and a thousand years are in God’s sight the same, so it would last six thousand years; and, as at creation the seventh day of rest followed, so the six thousand years would be succeeded by a seventh thousand of Sabbatical rest, the Millennium, as it is commonly called. We cannot dwell upon the importance of the belief in a Millennium: but the text before us was constantly invoked in support of that belief. ..." - Cambridge Greek Testament For Schools and Colleges, General Editor: R. St John Parry, B.D., Fellow of Trinity College; The Second Epistle General of Peter and the General Epistle of Jude; 1916, pages 30-31 - https://books.google.com/books?id=8xg0swEACAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

The Expositor's Greek Testament (September 12 1960 stamp) -
 
"... [2 Peter 3:8] Ver. 8. μία ἡμέρα, κ. τ. λ. Cf. Psalms 40:4. The literal application of this statement to the story of creation, employed by patristic writers, in which one day is interpreted as 1000 years, and therefore the creation in six days really means 6000 years, is of course absurd. On the other hand, it can scarcely be said that the writer of 2 Peter has attained to the conception that the category of time does not exist for the Divine Mind. Rather the meaning is that infinite compassion overrides in the Divine Mind all finite reckoning. Cf. Barnabas, 15, Justin, Dialogue, 81. ..." - The Expositor's Greek Testament; Edited by the Rev. W. Robertson Nicoll, M.A., LL.D., Editor of "The Expositor," "The Expositor's Bible," Etc.; Volume V.; Hodder and Stoughton Limited; London, New York, Toronto; (section) II; The Second Epistle General of Peter; by the Rev. R. H. Strachan, M.A.; on 2 Peter 3:8; page 144 (right hand column) - https://archive.org/stream/expositorsgreekt05nico#page/144/mode/1up/
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

Edwin Poots (born 27 April 1965) -
 
"... We had a little spat on Sunday Sequence this morning between the Times columnist Matthew Parris and Northern Ireland's culture minister, after the latter, Edwin Poots, made it clear that he is a young earth creationist and an opponent of the theory of evolution. We were talking about Tony Blair's claim that he didn't reveal his personal religious views while in government in case people wrote him off as "a nutter".
 
...
 
William Crawley: How old is the earth?
 
Edwin Poots: My view on the earth is that it's a young earth. My view is 4000 BC. ..." - Are Religious Politicians "nutters"? by William Crawley | 13:19 UK time, Sunday, 2 December 2007 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2007/12/are_religious_politicians_nutt.html
 
 
We had a little spat on Sunday Sequence this morning between the Times columnist Matthew Parris and Northern Ireland's culture minister, after the latter, Edwin Poots, made it clear that he is a young earth creationist and an opponent of the theory of evolution. We were talking about Tony Blair's claim that he didn't reveal his personal religious views while in government in case people wrote him off as "a nutter". Here's an edited version of part of the conversation:
 
William Crawley: (To Edwin Poots) You talk about your faith in public meetings.
 
Edwin Poots: I would talk about it when I'm asked about it, but I don't generally seek to impose it upon people. And I think where Tony Blair is wrong -- and I personally came through this when I was a lad at school, in that I hid my faith whenever I was in secondary school ... It wasn't until I left school and went to college that I was prepared to stand up and tell people that I was a Christian and I found that I didn't grow in my Christianity until I was able to tell others in a confident way that I was a Christian ...
 
William Crawley: What about when you become a minister, representing the government? Does your role then change, and the things you can talk openly about then change? Is that a new dynamic you've faced?
 
Edwin Poots: I haven't found that to be the case. In fact, since I've been a minister, I've been questioned in public fora about it, and I've reponded to those questions. Interestingly enough, in Armagh, I was actually approached after one such forum, and this guy says, "I'm a Roman Catholic. I'm from Newry. I send my kids to Irish language schools. If there was a vote for a united Ireland in the morning, we'd be voting for a united Ireland. But, he says, we're actually depending on you guys to stand up for the moral issues in Northern Ireland.
 
Then, when the conversation turned to Richard Dawkins' claim that religious believers are "mentally ill", the culture minister intervened:
 
Edwin Poots: He [Dawkins] wants to indoctrinate everyone with evolution. And whenever people suggest that you can teach something other than evolution, and that there might be others theories about how this earth actually came to be, such as intelligent design, Richard doesn't want children to have the option of actually hearing those things and making their own minds up. So it's very interesting that evolutionists are very dictatorial in what they suggest.
 
William Crawley: Matthew Parris ... you've just heard the culture minister in Northern Ireland speak, Matthew. Would a politician in Britain ever use words like that? A minister ingovernment?
 
Matthew Parris: Absolutely not. No. And I would use the word "nutter" -- not of Edwin, obviously. But I do use the word 'nutter' of people who think that what informs them religiously entitles them to say that evolution is a form of indoctrination. I mean, there's absolutely no question where science points, and it can only be some feeling that you've got a direct line with revelation with the Almighty that could lead you to stop wanting children to be taught that evolution is the best available explanation of where we are now.
 
Edwin Poots: Matthew, you're telling me that cosmic balls of dust gathered and there was an explosion. We've had lots of explosions in Northern Ireland and I've never seen anything come out of that that was good. And you look at this earth and you tell me that there was a big bang and all of a sudden all tat is good about this earth came out of it?
 
Matthew Parris: Good heavens! You're the culture minister and you don't believe in evolution?
 
Edwin Poots: Yes, absolutely. And you're telling me that all of this evolution took place over billions of years, and yet it's only in the last few thousand years that Man could actually learn to write?
 
William Crawley: How old is the earth?
 
Edwin Poots: My view on the earth is that it's a young earth. My view is 4000 BC.
 
You can listen again to the entire debate on whether our politicians should talk openly about their religious beliefs on the Sunday Sequence website. Also talking part: Al Hays, an American professor of politics currently working at Queen's University, and Ruth Yeo, the recently appointed Humanist Chaplain at Queen's University.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

Chabad.org (accessed 2018) -
 
"The Talmud tells us that this world, as we know it, will last for six thousand years, with the seventh millennium ushering in the cosmic Shabbat, the Messianic Era. Six days a week we work, and on the Shabbat we rest and enjoy the fruits of our labor; the same is true with millenniums." - http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/607585/jewish/Significance-of-the-year-6000.htm
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

Wikipedia (Current; 2019) -
 
"According to classical Jewish sources, the Hebrew year 6000 (Gregorian year 2239) marks the latest time for the initiation of the Messianic Age. The Talmud,[2] the Midrash,[3] and the Kabbalistic work, the Zohar,[4] state that the 'deadline' by which the Messiah must appear is 6,000 years from creation. According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BCE.[5] The current (2013/2014) Hebrew year is 5774." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_6000
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

Other interesting citations:

[1]
 
... Astrogeophysicist Dr John Eddy, who was at the time Solar Astronomer at the High Altitude Observatory at Boulder, Colorado, made some revealing comments at a symposium in 1978, as reported in Geotimes, Vol. 23, September 1978, p. 18.

There is no evidence based solely on solar observations’, Eddy stated, ‘that the Sun is 4.5–5 x 109 years old. I suspect’, he said, ‘that the Sun is 4.5-billion years old. However, given some new and unexpected results to the contrary, and some time for frantic recalculation and theoretical readjustment, I suspect that we could live with Bishop Ussher’s value for the age of the Earth and Sun. I don’t think we have much in the way of observational evidence in astronomy to conflict with that.’

...”
 
[2]
 
... Basil is one of the ‘Church Fathers’ that some have claimed did not believe in a historical Genesis. However, in a series of sermons on the Days of Creation, the Hexaëmeron (‘Six Days’), Basil showed that he believed:
  • In an instantaneous and recent Creation:

    In order that we might learn that the world came into existence at the timeless moment when God willed it, it was said: In the beginning God created … which other interpreters express more clearly by these words: God made everything together, that is to say, at one time, and in a short time.

    ‘“So there was evening and there was morning.” This is to be understood as the duration of one day and one night.’

  • That the days of Genesis were 24-hour days:

    ‘“And there was evening and there was morning: one day.” Why did the author not say “the first day”, but “one day”? He wished to determine the measure of a day and night, fitting together the Night/Day time-scale (in fact 24 hours are the duration of a day—obviously comprising the night as well)—so that even if the day or night is longer/shorter at different seasons of the year, yet the total time-spell is always the same—one day. It is as if Moses had said, “24 hours is the measure of a day”.’

  • That the order of events in Genesis 1, days one to six, are as it happened.

    For example, he indicated that plants were created before the sun; evolutionary ideas are contrary to Scripture; the Creation was originally ‘very good’ and completely lacking in evil; the words are to be understood by their plain meaning, not allegorized, and to interpret Scripture otherwise is to put ourselves above God, the Holy Spirit, who inspired its writing.

...” - https://creation.com/old-earth-or-young-earth-belief
 
[3]
 
Stephen Jay Gould comments on Barr’s analysis:
 
First, Ussher’s chronology extends out to several volumes and 2,000 pages of text and seems carefully done, without substantial special pleading. Second, the death of Herod in 4 B.C. doesn’t establish the birth of Jesus in the same year. Herod became king of Judea (Roman puppet would be more accurate) in 37 B.C. – and Jesus might have been born at other times in this thirty-three-year interval. Moreover, other traditions argued that the 4,000 years would run from creation to Christ’s crucifixion, not to his birth – thus extending the possibilities to A.D. 33. By these flexibilities, creation could have been anywhere between 4037 B.C. (4,000 years to the beginning of Herod’s reign) and 3967 B.C. (4,000 years to the Crucifixion). Four thousand four is in the right range, but certainly not ordained by symbolic tradition. You still have to calculate. - https://www.bethinking.org/is-there-a-creator/conflict-myths-bishop-ussher-and-the-date-of-creation
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

If any find any more such citations (as there are others I did not at this time locate in original languages), please post them here, but try not to duplicate what is already given previously.

This theology is traced from the earliest record in the OT:

Psa 84:10  For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Psa_90:4  For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecc_6:6  Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Isa 46:9  Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

right into the NT times of the Apostles:

Mat 13:35  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

2Pe 3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

right into the NT days of John:

Rev 20:1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

and into the days of the early Christians, as cited, and down through history until we have it today.

Could any theology be more solid, more demonstrated than such?  If so, let them show it (in their own thread, not here)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  334
  • Content Per Day:  0.16
  • Reputation:   59
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  08/19/2018
  • Status:  Offline

A connecting study is the Age of the Earth (Mankind) Chronology Study, found here -

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...