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GOD'S LAST WORD TO THE WORLD


Gentle-Warrior

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26 minutes ago, Adstar said:

Revelation 20: KJV

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Literal 1000 years reigning with Christ..

Later on in the same chapter it establishes that the Saints are on earth. At the end of the 1000 years.

We read::

(Revelation 20: KJV

7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

So at the end of the 1000 years the Saints will be On earth and will be living near the Beloved City Jerusalem.. That will be where Jesus shall be ruling the world from.. This final satanic rebellion will be destroyed and then the second resurrection and final judgement will happen..  I cannot be any more clearer.. That is why this Book of the Bible is called the Book of Revelation because it reveals things that correct misguided doctrines that many religious people have adopted..

Read it again and tell me where does it say that Jesus will come down to earth to rule for 1,000 literal years, and who told you that the ONE THOUSAND YEARS (not 1,000 years) were literal? How did you figure that since the chapter begins with symbols? And who told you that Revelation was written for the future? Do you have chapter and verse in Revelation where John states that? 

By the way, did you read the preceding chapters where the whore of Jerusalem was destroyed completely? (Chap 17-18). Did you forget that that the Romans already did that in AD 70 and God's word was fulfilled exactly as Jesus said it would? (Mat. 23:34-39, 1Thes. 2:14-16).

 Are you still dreaming that a secular nation with no God, no Christ and no faith in the Lord will one day be redeemed again as if the cross was not effective enough to do it 2,000 years ago? 

So, what happened to Eph. 2:8 where it says that we are saved by grace through faith? Is there an exception for ungodly Jews that hate the very mention of the name of Jesus? 

Lastly, what kind of biblical support to you have for Rev. 20? Did Jesus promise a Millennial kingdom? Did any the apostles tell us that it would be so? Who said it and why would Jesus deny His own word when He said that His kingdom was not of this world (Jn 18:36)? 

Your presuppositions have too many holes to fill to give it a second look.

 

JESUS PLUS NOTHING EQUALS EVERYTHING.jpg

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1 hour ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Where does it say that God the Son who rules in heaven over all creation (Mat. 28:18, Eph. 1:20-22) will step down from heaven to rule over what He already rules?  Jesus is omnipresent and all powerful because He is God. 

1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95)

27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!"

Will God the Son rule on earth when He, Himself said that His kingdom is not of this world? (Jn 18:36). Why then are you trying to bring God to your human level instead of seating in heavenly places as His words states we are? (Eph. 2:6). 

Did you already forget who Jesus really is? Where is your scripture anyway where it says that Jesus will step down from heaven to rule on earth?

Read Rev. 20 a few times and tell me where it says that? 

 

JESUS PLUS NOTHING EQUALS EVERYTHING.jpg

Of course the Bible makes it clear God will not be ruling from heaven in eternity. Lets go once again to the Book of Revelation and see where it tells us that our eternal Home the New Jerusalem will come OUT of Heaven and down to us.. Also revealing that God will be in the New Jeruslaem and will dwll with us..

Revelation 21: KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. {3} And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

So our eternal home the one Jesus talked about with many mansions that He left to prepare a place for His Saints will come down  and God will then dwell with the Saints and as it say Out of heaven measn God will not be dwelling with the saints in heaven for eternity.. Thats why God creates a New Earth.. If everyone was spending eternity in heaven there would be no need for a new earth..

John 14: KJV

2 "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. {3} And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

 

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5 hours ago, other one said:

I get to be the 100'th poster.....

You count and I'll just scroll aimlessly through the pages. :rolleyes:

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1. The entire history of Israel/Jews was the Lord giving second chances

2. Your logic when invoking the NT record being required to validate an understanding of the OT record is flawed because 'rightly dividing' the word in that light allows for even more subjectivity and your interpretations make that abundantly clear.

3. You say His rule is over all so that means He doesn't need to also have a throne on the earth. That is a flat out a logical error.

We are going to have to agree to disagree...the Lord knows and we all will one day.

Amos 9:14  “Also I will arestore the 1captivity of My people Israel,

And they will brebuild the ruined cities and live in them;

They will also cplant vineyards and drink their wine,

And make gardens and eat their fruit.

15  “I will also plant them on their land,

And athey will not again be rooted out from their land

Which I have given them,”

Says the LORD your God.

This from the Expositor's Bible Commentary

14-15 The period when this abundance will be manifested will witness the restoration of Israel to her land. Ruined cities will be rebuilt (v.14), and Israel will again flourish as a nation. Amos saw this restoration as being permanent. He said that Israel would be planted in her own land “never again to be uprooted” (v.15). It is difficult to understand his words as finding fulfillment in the postexilic period. Not only were the economic conditions of that time not consonant with Amos’s prediction, but its impermanency makes the identification doubly difficult.

Other OT prophets used somewhat similar language to describe this period. Like Amos, they associated the abundance of blessing with the Davidic King (Isa 9:2-7; 11:1-9; Mic 4:1-5; 5:2-5).

It is difficult to apply the concept of universal peace to the invisible kingdom, the church, unless the meaning of the prophet’s language is severely restricted. If one understands the kingdom to have a present aspect as well as a future aspect, the problem becomes less difficult. The NT teaches a present, invisible aspect of the kingdom, which is the church. The millennial kingdom is that aspect of the kingdom in which God’s reign will be realized within the sphere of human history and natural order. It is in this aspect of the kingdom that Amos’s prediction of the blessings of the kingdom may be placed.

The hope of Amos is not an isolated one that finds expression only in his book. Nor is it a purely prophetic tradition without relation to other OT traditions. It is an expression of one of the most important themes of OT theology—viz., the promise. This promise, given to Abraham, reiterated to the patriarchs, reaffirmed to David and expressed throughout the OT, affirms that God will mediate his redemptive blessings to Jews and Gentiles in a promised offspring or “seed.” In the prophets, this offspring is clearly the Davidic Messiah, who in the NT is Christ. Amos affirmed that God’s promise has not ceased. In spite of the internal turmoil in the kingdom of his day, God would establish the Davidic monarchy; and through that monarchy God’s blessing would come to “all peoples on earth” (Gen 12:3).

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10 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Don't you know that God's last word to the world is the cross of Jesus Christ? (Heb. 1:2).

That is your opinion. God is at Work and speaking even now, and HIS sheep hear his voice. The redemption of Israel is his final work, which is what is to come. You see, Jesus "Was and is, and is to come". That is the Very Name of God (Ha Shem) The I Am that I Am, the ever existing one. You treat God as if he is no longer capable of doing any work on this earth, That he is constrained to do anything because he is limited by his finished work on the cross. Which Totally misses the whole Point of the sovereignty of God, and His ability to accomplish His will and to usher in His Kingdom here on earth. This is the Millennial reign of Christ.

Right now Satan is the god of this world In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (2 Cor. 4:4)

Right now creation is groaning for the revelation of the Sons of God. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. (Romans 8:19-22)

Right now we are groaning for the redemption of our bodies. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Romans 8:23)

Right Now Israel is in spiritual blindness, But they will have their Eyes opened and Will see that they Have Pierced God and repent. This repentance is a corporate national repentance as Per Zech. 12:10ff And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. (Zech. 12:12-13:1)

You see God's plan of salvation includes Israel. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. (Romans 8:31-32) 

Do you really think that God's last word has been spoken, and that he would leave Satan as the god of this world, and Israel in unbelief?

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I love Romans 8!

Thanks DH.

 

I hope you didn't mind my using your citing of Amos as a jump point for my last post.

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1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

That is your opinion. God is at Work and speaking even now, and HIS sheep hear his voice. The redemption of Israel is his final work, which is what is to come. You see, Jesus "Was and is, and is to come". That is the Very Name of God (Ha Shem) The I Am that I Am, the ever existing one. You treat God as if he is no longer capable of doing any work on this earth, That he is constrained to do anything because he is limited by his finished work on the cross. Which Totally misses the whole Point of the sovereignty of God, and His ability to accomplish His will and to usher in His Kingdom here on earth. This is the Millennial reign of Christ.

Right now Satan is the god of this world In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. (2 Cor. 4:4)

Right now creation is groaning for the revelation of the Sons of God. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. (Romans 8:19-22)

Right now we are groaning for the redemption of our bodies. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Romans 8:23)

Right Now Israel is in spiritual blindness, But they will have their Eyes opened and Will see that they Have Pierced God and repent. This repentance is a corporate national repentance as Per Zech. 12:10ff And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. (Zech. 12:12-13:1)

You see God's plan of salvation includes Israel. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. (Romans 8:31-32) 

Do you really think that God's last word has been spoken, and that he would leave Satan as the god of this world, and Israel in unbelief?

Christ is the last word to the world in relation to salvation, sanctification, forgiveness of sins, eternal life, etc. It is finished (Jn 19:30). God will not speak a NEW WORD about anything else but in relation to what Christ has done.

Israel as a nation was finished when God judged her for all her sins and removed her from His sight in A.D. 70. No more Israel because God has His own chosen people who believe in Christ (Eph. 1:4).

Hebrews 1:1–2 (NKJV)

1 "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds."

Matthew 23:34–39 (NASB95)

34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

36 “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

38 “Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

39 “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Modern Israel is nothing but a secular nation without connection with God. Out of this sinful nation, God has His own remnant of 30,000 godly people that is growing slowly in the Lord. They belong to Christ and are part of the chosen people which is Christ's church (Eph. 1:4). So, when you say that Israel is now in "spiritual blindness", you forget that Paul was talking about old covenant Israel of 2,000 years ago. You cannot take a word out of context and apply it to a non-covenant and political nation that has nothing to do with what Paul was talking about. The blindness of OLD ISRAEL was due to the hardness of their own hearts, not because God had kept them from it. So, the only way for them to be saved was to believe in Christ, 

Paul spoke clearly about this in 2Cor. 3:

2 Corinthians 3:12–16 (NASB95)

12 "Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech,

13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.

14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;

16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."

Pretty clear, don't you think? 

Unfortunately, some of us have  allowed ourselves to be deceived by false teachings that makes modern Israel a future elite nation that God will have to redeem again because the brats can't do any wrong and since the cross wasn't effective for them the first time around. Blasphemy is not a strong word to refer to this kind of belief. 

 By the way, if you want to use OT scriptures that strictly belong to an already obsolete covenant (Heb. 8:13), please make sure you have full support in the NT that speaks about the same exact subject. 

As for your little imp satan, he is only the god of darkness and deception. He has no authority to do whatever he wants because he is nothing but defeated angel whose greatest weapon is to deceive the world and the church, but Christ who is Lord of all and who reigns in the heavens over all His creation is none other than God Almighty creator, redeemer and King (Eph. 1:20-23, Mat. 28:18, Heb. 1:3, Titus 2:11-14, etc.) 

Please don't lower the divine status of your creator and redeemer (Col. 1:16, Gal. 3:13, Lk 24:21). Christ is all and all (Col. 3:11). 

 

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Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

Christ is the last word to the world in relation to salvation, sanctification, forgiveness of sins, eternal life, etc. It is finished (Jn 19:30). God will not speak a NEW WORD about anything else but in relation to what Christ has done.

That does not answer my question. You continuously divert away from the actual question and fail to answer the question. I Agree with the above Re: salvation, sanctification, forgiveness eternal life, and this is the finished work of Christ. I Disagree that God will not speak a new Word. That is the point of my question. My Question is as follows:

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

Do you really think that God's last word has been spoken, and that he would leave Satan as the god of this world, and Israel in unbelief?

 

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

Israel as a nation was finished when God judged her for all her sins and removed her from His sight in A.D. 70. No more Israel because God has His own chosen people who believe in Christ (Eph. 1:4).

Yet she is a nation again, Just like the Old covenant prophets prophesied. You cannot deny that. She was born in a day, just like Isaiah 66 stated, She has turned the waste places into a garden Just like Amos spoke of with vineyards and fruit of all kinds. 

God's work is not complete yet, and everything in nature, and the World proves this, Evil still rules, death is still the course of life, Satan is ruling this world, and the evidence is all over the place. We have not overcome Satan yet by the blood of the lamb and the Word of our testimony (Rev. 12;11) Israel has yet to be redeemed, and come to the fulness of Christ Jesus along with the church. "Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven..." His Kingdom has come in heaven, but not on earth. His Work is not finished yet, and He is not finished with us yet. Sanctification is both instant and progressive a lifelong process. Satan is not chained in the bottomless pit, but he is roaming the earth seeking whom he may devour. The Sons of God, what we become have yet to be revealed. God has yet to Judge the World. Judgment is and will be God speaking another Word. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. (1 John 4:17)

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3;2-3)

You in essence deny the second coming of Christ by your theology which states that all his work is finished, which it clearly is not. Israel the nation is part of this second coming, when he comes not as the suffering servant of Isaiah 53, But as The King of kings, and Lord of lords, and The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Rev. 11:15b)

19 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Blasphemy is not a strong word to refer to this kind of belief. 

Not very "Gentle" of a comment on your part, now is it. 

 

21 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

As for your little imp satan, he is only the god of darkness and deception.

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. (Jude 1:8-10)

 

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15 hours ago, Adstar said:

This is where Human thinking is undermining you... Where does the doctrine that Jesus shall rule on earth state that Jesus NEEDS to rule on earth??? 

NOWHERE..

Of course Jesus does not NEED to rule on earth for 1000 Years.. It has NEVER been about Gods NEEDs. It's about Gods WILL.. 

So God is omnipresent and limitless in power and He rules all existence no matter where He is.. Location is irrelevant.. But He can WILL to do things what ever way He likes and He has his own reasons..

You have believed a lie and made to be as if it was the truth. God doesn’t need to reign physically because He is a Spirit (Jn 4:24). He has reigned supremely over all His creation from the moment He made it. Now, since Jesus is God Almighty and ruler over all, you need to stop trying to bring the Lord down to your humanistic level. 

The fact is that the NT is silent about such aberration should be proof enough to stop believing this false teaching.

I’ll ask you a question and let’s see if you can respond. What would be the implications of a holy God to appear in the fullness of His glory and dwell in the physical realm? Do you have any idea?

The word of God tells us that God’s throne is in heaven (Isa 66:1) while 1 Ki. 8:27 says, 

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!” 

So, are you willing to deny God’s word in order to push a doctrine that neither Jesus nor His disciples ever taught?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

You have believed a lie and made to be as if it was the truth. God doesn’t need to reign physically because He is a Spirit (Jn 4:24). He has reigned supremely over all His creation from the moment He made it. Now, since Jesus is God Almighty and ruler over all, you need to stop trying to bring the Lord down to your humanistic level. 

The fact is that the NT is silent about such aberration should be proof enough to stop believing this false teaching.

I’ll ask you a question and let’s see if you can respond. What would be the implications of a holy God to appear in the fullness of His glory and dwell in the physical realm? Do you have any idea?

The word of God tells us that God’s throne is in heaven (Isa 66:1) while 1 Ki. 8:27 says, 

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!” 

So, are you willing to deny God’s word in order to push a doctrine that neither Jesus nor His disciples ever taught?

 

 

It is so easy to pick this apart, but I won't do that. Several have attempted to get you to at least slow your roll a we bit, but to no avail.

I have a question instead.

Where and how did the germ of this doctrine of yours first present itself to you?

How did you come to believe what you believe?

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