Exalting Vileness

[JohnD]

16 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

It doesn't say and I'm not speculating other than to say it's probably your sinful ways.

Mark 1:15 (AV)
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repent from unbelieving to believing.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by JohnD

[unworthyservant]

2 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

The point I'm trying to make is that the Lord told us homosexuality is an abomination (Lev. 18:22), yet in the world, homosexuality is exalted. If you don't exalt homosexuality, the world will call you a homophobe or a Christo-Nazi. It even happens in the church.

And all I'm saying is that there are a lot more "abominations" a lot closer to home so I'm pointing them out as well, not to take away from those you mention but to simply add to them those that might be a little more personal for a lot of us(the numbers do support the fact that we're much more likely to run into them on a daily basis as we are homosexuals). As far as exaltation goes, it's ironic that one of the several words that's translated in the English Bibles as "abomination" actually has to do with the exaltation or acceptance by other groups of certain acts which were considered sins under God's law for the Israelites. Believe me, I understand the need to call out sin and the repercussions associated with it.  And as for what names I might be called for calling out sin, it's pretty mild compared to those that Christ was called as He was being put to death for MY sins (as well as those of the homosexuals and everyone else). You also mention that "it" even happens in the church. I take it that "it" is condemnation for calling homosexuality a sin and if so then those churches where that might happen have strayed far from the teachings of Christ anyway, so I don't worry about their condemnation as much as I do about their souls.

[johnthebaptist]

1 minute ago, unworthyservant said:

And all I'm saying is that there are a lot more "abominations" a lot closer to home so I'm pointing them out as well, not to take away from those you mention but to simply add to them those that might be a little more personal for a lot of us(the numbers do support the fact that we're much more likely to run into them on a daily basis as we are homosexuals). As far as exaltation goes, it's ironic that one of the several words that's translated in the English Bibles as "abomination" actually has to do with the exaltation or acceptance by other groups of certain acts which were considered sins under God's law for the Israelites. Believe me, I understand the need to call out sin and the repercussions associated with it.  And as for what names I might be called for calling out sin, it's pretty mild compared to those that Christ was called as He was being put to death for MY sins (as well as those of the homosexuals and everyone else). You also mention that "it" even happens in the church. I take it that "it" is condemnation for calling homosexuality a sin and if so then those churches where that might happen have strayed far from the teachings of Christ anyway, so I don't worry about their condemnation as much as I do about their souls.

There are certain things the Lord labels as abominations, such as homosexuality (Lev 18:22).

[unworthyservant]

1 minute ago, JohnD said:

Mark 1:15 (AV)
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repent from unbelieving to believing.

 

 

I've already posted on translation and meaning issues in another post so won't go into detail here other than to say that anyway you slice it "repentance" can generally be seen as turning over a new leaf. That said, it seems that it requires two distinct acts. One of turning away from the old and one of turning to the new. In this case from sin to light.  

[simplejeff]

18 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

I've already posted on translation and meaning issues in another post so won't go into detail here other than to say that anyway you slice it "repentance" can generally be seen as turning over a new leaf. That said, it seems that it requires two distinct acts. One of turning away from the old and one of turning to the new. In this case from sin to light.  

Jesus often told the people :  "Turn To Yahweh"

because

"His Kingdom is Now Here, At Hand" ......

 

Everyone (unless there were any exceptions, and Jesus would know this,  )

is and was in the kingdom of darkness,  unaware,  not in the LIGHT,  living in the midst of this pernicious generation,

and those whom the Father gave to Jesus listened.

[unworthyservant]

3 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

There are certain things the Lord labels as abominations, such as homosexuality (Lev 18:22).

Again, the Lord labeled nothing "abomination". That's an English translation that is used for several Hebrew words of which just one of those words "toeba" can be found in the following iterations,

1. Idolatry; Deuteronomy 7:35, 13:14 Isiah 44:19.

2. All types of illicit sex; Ezekiel 16:22, 16:58, 22:11, 33:26

3. Homosexuality; several places in Leviticus as you note.

4. Temple prostitution; 1Kings 14:24

5. Deuteronomy 23:18; "You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the Lord your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God". This one, while it is believed that the wages of a dog refer to money made as a male prostitute, doesn't differentiate between a male and female prostitute and could also more broadly be seen to imply that any ill gotten, sinful gain is not pleasing to God and thus giving of it would be an abomination.

6. Cheating; specifically by using rigged weights; Deuteronomy 25:13-19, Proverbs 11:1

7. Lying or dishonesty; Proverbs 12:22

8. Stealing, murder and idolatry; Jeremiah 7:9,10

9. Robbery, sleeping with the neighbor's wife, oppressing the poor and needy, violence, idolatry, usury; Ezekiel 18:10-13

These are just a sampling of the use of a single word that became "abomination" in our English Bibles. There are many more examples but all I'm saying is that when we point to only those few examples that we wish to condemn then we run the risk of thinking that somehow those are worse than every other "abomination". So, I'm just providing the other examples of "abomination" or "vileness" just in case those other examples might be closer to someone's situation than just the couple that folks seem so adamant about pointing out.

 

[johnthebaptist]

27 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

Again, the Lord labeled nothing "abomination". That's an English translation that is used for several Hebrew words of which just one of those words "toeba" can be found in the following iterations,

1. Idolatry; Deuteronomy 7:35, 13:14 Isiah 44:19.

2. All types of illicit sex; Ezekiel 16:22, 16:58, 22:11, 33:26

3. Homosexuality; several places in Leviticus as you note.

4. Temple prostitution; 1Kings 14:24

5. Deuteronomy 23:18; "You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the Lord your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God". This one, while it is believed that the wages of a dog refer to money made as a male prostitute, doesn't differentiate between a male and female prostitute and could also more broadly be seen to imply that any ill gotten, sinful gain is not pleasing to God and thus giving of it would be an abomination.

6. Cheating; specifically by using rigged weights; Deuteronomy 25:13-19, Proverbs 11:1

7. Lying or dishonesty; Proverbs 12:22

8. Stealing, murder and idolatry; Jeremiah 7:9,10

9. Robbery, sleeping with the neighbor's wife, oppressing the poor and needy, violence, idolatry, usury; Ezekiel 18:10-13

These are just a sampling of the use of a single word that became "abomination" in our English Bibles. There are many more examples but all I'm saying is that when we point to only those few examples that we wish to condemn then we run the risk of thinking that somehow those are worse than every other "abomination". So, I'm just providing the other examples of "abomination" or "vileness" just in case those other examples might be closer to someone's situation than just the couple that folks seem so adamant about pointing out.

 

Well, yes, it was written in Hebrew, so the Hebrew word for "abomination" was used. I'd be careful if I were you. The Lord wasn't joking when he said homosexuality was an abomination (or whatever the Hebrew word for it was).

[Blood Bought 1953]

2 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

I've already posted on translation and meaning issues in another post so won't go into detail here other than to say that anyway you slice it "repentance" can generally be seen as turning over a new leaf. That said, it seems that it requires two distinct acts. One of turning away from the old and one of turning to the new. In this case from sin to light.  

 

Turning over a new leaf is serious error if one thinks that is the way to be saved.

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Turning over a new leaf is serious error if one thinks that is the way to be saved.

If someone is a drug addict,  or in porn,   or a greedy person,  or gay or an adulterer or catholic or other idolator,

and they turn over a new leaf,

they are then therefore, by definition,  saved from that specific wickedness.

How is that a serious error ?    They end up better (free ) ,  and then perhaps the other unbelief in their life can be addressed without the previous addictive sin.

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

I've already posted on translation and meaning issues in another post so won't go into detail here other than to say that anyway you slice it "repentance" can generally be seen as turning over a new leaf. That said, it seems that it requires two distinct acts. One of turning away from the old and one of turning to the new. In this case from sin to light.  

Or Old Covenant to the New.