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Two separate wars?? Your thoughts please.


Justin Adams

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50 minutes ago, Sister said:

Sin won't be possible for the resurrected saints.  They will be ruling with Christ.

The sons of God in His Divine Council still had the choice to sin or not. All of His Created beings can do this else they would not be truly free. It is a sticky items and needs careful thought.

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3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I like the thoughts on this topic. Many questions still arise. If we are 'changed' as in 'the twinkling of an eye', what does that mean? Can we still procreate? Big question.

 

Jesus when he spoke to the pharisees told them we shall not be given in marriage in eternity but we would be as the Angels not procreating..  When the Saints take part in the first resurrection on the Day of the return of Jesus those of us who are still alive at the time will be changed in a twinkling of an eye and be caught up to meet Jesus in the sky at his return..

 

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If you put all the end-times stuff in a blender, what you are left with is I AM AND I WIN. However, because we are encouraged to study God, His Divine Council and the way He does things (Torah) then we can get some real gems of insight that 'the angels (holy ones) long to look into'. Even God's holy ones are not sure what is going on.

One third of the Angels are allied with satan and thus they had to be kept in the dark as far as the Way of salvation God had made to redeem His creation.. Keeping the secret from them entailed keeping it from all the Angels and even keeping it hidden from mankind untill the Way had been established by the LORD Jesus on the cross.. If satan and His angels knew that it was by the death of the Messiah that Redemption would be secured of course they would have stopped Jesus execution rather then inspiring people to execute Jesus.. 

 

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Just like Obadiah and other Godly Rants, did the Cross ameliorate any of Daniel? And does Revelation give us a timeline that is perhaps deliberately obtuse and might contain some red-herrings? I do not mean 'untruths' I mean misdirects to keep the powers and principalities guessing...??

Well since God has already achieved that critical Victory over satan by His death and resurrection on the cross there is less need for hiding the future from either Angels or the saved followers of Jesus.. But of course it still takes the leading of the Holy Spirit to give wisdom and understanding of scripture.. So satan and His angels must still be blocked from full understanding of the future because they seem to still be under the impression that Gods plan can be sabotaged.. If they knew they where hopelessly defeated then why would they bother to do what they will do when they come out of the Pit as revealed in the Book of Revelation..  Maybe God is allowing them or giving them over to such illusions so that even in their rebellion against the LORD they will be serving Gods purpose during the end times..

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

The sons of God in His Divine Council still had the choice to sin or not. All of His Created beings can do this else they would not be truly free. It is a sticky items and needs careful thought.

We shall be transformed into our eternal perfect state of being where we shall never again have the desires to rebel or sin because we shall know God and of course know His will and we shall know God is justified to be the One and Only God of all existence.. satans rebellion was based on his prideful delusion that He should be the equal of God .. A god himself..  The Saints will shall be in alignment with the will of God.. We shall be greater then angels, greater then satan ever was..

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That is interesting theology, but is it correct? Read Psalm 82 and Deut 32 and a bunch of others like it. It is interesting to note that the scriptures are clear that the 'sons of God' did sin and they were in His Heavenly Presence, as members of His Council.
That there needs to be two wars is quite mysterious, and while hasatan is thrown down to the erets (the earth and the underworld) his leadership of other fallen beings is not to be assumed. There are many more very powerful members of God's Council that have had their days numbered, but not quite yet it seems. Paul calls them Archons.
To assume a thing is not to make it true, and the 'third' of angels being cast down is NOT born out in scripture either. Re-read the passage. It does not say one third of the holy ones were cast down. We do not know how many there are against Yahweh.

As I suggested, forget most of man's doctrines for a while and see those passages for what they are. Not colored by doctrines of men. You might be surprised at how many 'modern' doctrines are based on Augustine and his ilk. Not a nice fellow.
Take the scriptures as stated and other books that might shed light. That is why God allowed Qumran to be discovered. These were inter-testament scholars of an extremely conservative sect that thought the Pharisees had lost the plot. Some of their Q-texts have good commentaries and they are well worth looking at. Remember, the early church were antisemitic, and the so-called canon(s) were discussed by some that really hated Hebrew and did not study it because they called Jews 'christ killers'.

There is far more to this historical record than meets the eye and far more that has not been taught the average believer.

We have a unique place in history where we can study and find old document sources. There are many astute scholars that for tens of years have studied and transcribed and translated many scripts. We have the tools to actually translate online original hebrew and Aramaic scripts. We should use those tools and not rely on old doctrines. Did you know that Israelis were not invited to the various early councils, like Nicea etc.? What does that tell you?

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4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

The sons of God in His Divine Council still had the choice to sin or not. All of His Created beings can do this else they would not be truly free. It is a sticky items and needs careful thought.

Amen

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14 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

Hi @Uriah! I'll explain how I understand the 20th chapter of the Book of Revelation. 

1. Satan is bound and cast into the abyss, where he's powerless to deceive the nations for a thousand years. (1-3).

2. This is the time of the first resurrection. As a side note, the apostle Paul supports this theme by explaining the two resurrections in the following manner in 1 Corinthians 15: 20-24. 

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Christ is first, the saints are second, and everyone else is resurrected at the end of all things (the white throne).

3. Satan is loosed, Armageddon occurs, and so a defeated Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the Beast and False Prophet are. 

4. The Day of the Lord, when the rest of the dead are resurrected and judged by God. This is the end of all things and when all things are made new. 

Hi Dusty

3....Satan is loosed AFTER the  1,000 yrs. Armageddon takes place before.

4....The Day of the Lord is the end of this present age and begins the 1K reign of Christ. All things are made new at the beginning of the 1,000 yrs. not the end. In Rev 6 you can see the present heaven (sky) departing like a scroll and the islands etc being rearranged. This while the people of Earth see the FACE of His who sits on the throne! 

plasma wave_8a.jpg

Face_CARM.png

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On 9/13/2019 at 10:26 AM, Justin Adams said:

Thanks for the input. I would not ask if I was sure of any answer. Sometimes the answers pose more questions.

Specifically, if I may quote something said. 'so  that none need be tempted to choose it again, forever.' That kind of thing has always bothered me. We are supposed to kinda perfect, yet still there is this underlying sense of chaos and the possibilities of making the wrong choices. I know that to be in God's Image we have to be 'unconstrained' in our thoughts and actions, like He is.

Even some of His heavenly host sinned and will pay the price 'die like men' (ps. 82). I.e. loose their immortality much as Adam did once.

So my further question, if we are 'changed' and 'transformed' to  be like Yeshua, why would sin still be a possible issue?

Before Adam fell, one gets the sense he was innocent and did not know what sin was - until he disobeyed. The heavenly host knew all about it though, and so did God. So if we are to be trusted Council Members and serve Yahweh, is this really going to be a second 'test'? Ideas?

 

First off, this is just my personal view, the way I understand it in my mind. Secondly, it would take so much space to write down everything as I view it, so I'm going to be exceptionally brief:

Since the fall of Adam, how many days in the history of humanity has there not been war and conflict somewhere on the globe [very, very few]? Jesus is going to rule with a rod of iron for 1,000 years and there will be total peace. No peace can ever be achieved by man without Jesus Christ and our history has verified that. 

There will be two classes of people in the millennium, those whom were Raptured and Resurrected that are incapable of sinning, and those whom survived the tribulation and after the goat / sheep judgment, are allowed to enter into the millennium. Again for emphasis, in our glorified bodies we will be incapable of sinning. During this period the Saints apparently will have jobs, positions of authority and responsibilities based on their service and faith to the Lord while in the flesh. 

During this millennial reign of Christ, the curses on the earth will be lifted and work will be done to partially restore the earth back to its original litter less unpolluted condition. With the number of people entering the millennial Kingdom, it will not take many decades to repopulate the earth. As those in the millennium will live as long as Adams, Methuselah, Mahalaleel, Enos, Cainan, etc. There will still be some sin [sin of the flesh], but those that live sinful lives will be cut off as babes [100 years old]. There will be no influences from Satan and his minions, as he will be imprisoned for the entire 1,000 years, so humanity can not claim they were deceived by darkness. The leaves from the Tree of Life will be for the healing of the nations. 

To me the Bible is pretty clear concerning Adam, that he was not deceived [go read it carefully], but Eve was. In my personal opinion, Adam loved Eve more than God, and didn't want Eve to be alone in whatever punishment was to come, and they were one flesh. Sin is disobeying God's commands, and they both knew well not to partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. How did they immediately know they sinned? They discovered they were naked, I suspect they wore no clothing of nature, but were clothed in 'light' possibly.

For the "Saints" in the millennium it will be no 'test', but enjoying the start of eternity and worshiping the Lord forever. I'm not sure about the particulars of those whom enter and are born during the millennium or the purpose. Perhaps a chance to accept Christ as their own personal Savior and not able to blame the Devil for their rejection of Christ??? Also during this millennial reign, I believe the Saints will be judging the angels, and I suppose by that it's the fallen angels. Imagine how many angels that will be? 

But anyway, we all have our own image in our minds of what we read and how we process it in our brain.

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On 9/12/2019 at 4:45 AM, Justin Adams said:

Ezekiel 39:7, 22, 28-29 (HCSB) — 7 So I will make My holy name known among My people Israel and will no longer allow it to be profaned. Then the nations will know that I am Yahweh, the Holy One in Israel.

 

Hi Justin,

Ezekiel 39:7 refers back to Ezekiel 36:20.   When the Jews were exiled into the nations, it was in effect profaning God's name because it made it look like the God of Israel was incapable of stopping it from happening.

Ezekiel 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

In the end times, in Ezekiel 38/39 the defeat of the huge force of Gog's army that comes against tiny Israel, will show that God does have the power to keep nations no matter what the size from overcoming Israel.    So God's name will no longer be profaned among the heathen, unlike in Ezekiel 36:20, as appearing to be incapable to the heathen to control events like when the Jews went into exile,  that He is God the Holy One in Israel.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

In Ezekiel 39:23 it goes on to say why the house of Israel went into exile among the heathen.      It is actually Jesus Himself speaking in retrospect after returning to earth in Ezekiel 39:21.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

 

 

 

Edited by douggg
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Two destruction of armies events.  

Gog/Magog, feast on Gog's army, Ezekiel 39:4

then the 7 years of Daniel 9:27

then the Armageddon feast on the dead, Ezekiel 39:17-20, executed by Jesus in Revelation 19:17-21.

Jesus Himself speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to earth.

 

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On 9/14/2019 at 7:22 PM, Justin Adams said:

The sons of God in His Divine Council still had the choice to sin or not. All of His Created beings can do this else they would not be truly free. It is a sticky items and needs careful thought.

Are you speaking of the angels here when you say the sons of God?

I was answering your question concerning the "we";

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So my further question, if we are 'changed' and 'transformed' to  be like Yeshua, why would sin still be a possible issue?

 Sin doesn't apply to those who are 'changed', (who took part in the first resurrection), because perfection will be given.  The tests are over for the saints because they have overcome.  Now they are worthy to lead by example. 

Those living in "the flesh" will still have to deny their fleshly desires and need to learn to walk in the spirit.  Having one truth preached and new laws will make it easier for these generations, and don't forget Satan's seed is not completely destroyed yet.  Evil will still exist until it is completely destroyed.  The others need to learn resistance by knowing what is good and evil, like we learn today.

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