Two separate wars?? Your thoughts please.

[Sister]

16 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

The Bible is full of allegorical statements( like those you mentioned from Isaiah) and  the phrase "thousand years"is one of them. I say this because in the first post I asked you if you could list any verses that would support or contain language of a literal "thousand years" and none of those verses contain that.

Hi Walter Goraj jr

No, you will not find any verses specifically mentioning the thousand years except in Rev 20.  As I mentioned before, John was the only one who revealed the thousand year time frame.  Revelation means to "reveal".  This book is the revealing of what what spoken through the prophets of old - completing the picture and giving the exact timing.  Without the NT, one would not know the order of events.  We know now the thousand years is after the 2nd Coming - because it's mentioned so clearly.  And we know from those scriptures I gave you in Isaiah that a child will live to 100 yrs and die blessed or cursed.  That means a generation will be 100 years, therefore 10 generations of people will be born amongst the Jews and Gentiles during this time.

 

In the old testament, you won't find the words of a thousand years mentioned.  But God mentions a time of "rest" coming.   A time free from wars and people living in peace and in safety.  This ties in with what John saw and now makes sense, because the Prince of Peace has to come first, and bind the strong one.  Until Satan is bound, the nations will continually be deceived.

Mark 3:27   No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

 

The bible is to be understood precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there.  This is how we find true doctrine.  Seek and ye shall find.

 

 

 

Isaiah 14:1   For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

  Isaiah 14:2   And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

  Isaiah 14:3   And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

  Isaiah 14:4   That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

  Isaiah 14:5   The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

  Isaiah 14:6   He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

  Isaiah 14:7   The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

  Isaiah 14:8   Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

A good example here of an allegory.  An allegory depicting a time to come involving the whole earth at rest.  The fir trees and the cedars of Lebanon which we know are the tallest trees of the forest.  They symbolise the high ones of this earth.   When has the whole earth ever been at rest?  Never.  Therefore Satan who has always ruled over the rulers of this earth by causing wars and oppression, cannot touch these leaders.  It's never happened, so it is prophesied to come.  These will be the heads of nations during the millennium, and Satan is not destroyed yet, but is put away for a time.

  Isaiah 14:9   Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

  Isaiah 14:10   All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

  Isaiah 14:11   Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

  Isaiah 14:12   How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

  Revelation 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

  Revelation 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

Isaiah 28:12   To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

 

[Sister]

19 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

They do however contain a  symbolic portrait of the beauty of the new heavens and earth (to begin right after Christ's Second Coming.)  when the " wolf and the lamb shall feed together" we could understand that as there will be perfect peace in heaven... when we read in Isaiah 54:13" and all thy children shall be taught of the Lord " that appears to be a parallel with John 6:45" and they shall be all taught of God" meaning all of God's people - not just children .   

I don't mean to be long-winded but there's so so much to talk about! If possible I would like to examine some of those other verses from Isaiah that you brought up in the next post God bless you

Hello again.

This is what doesn't gel for me - After the new heavens and the earth is established, there will be no death.  In the Isaiah verse, death still exists, because a child will live to be 100. 

 Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

The saints of the resurrection don't die again.  So it's not speaking about them. If the saints are ruling with Christ, then who are they ruling over?

To die a ripe old age of a hundred years old, cannot be symbolic of everlasting life, or anything to do with the new heavens and earth.  That means all the other details given with it where the animals don't devour each other are in the same period.  They just don't eat meat in the kingdom.  They will eat straw!  It's a wonderful thing that the Lord will do.

 Isaiah 11:9   They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

  Isaiah 65:25   The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

 

 

 

 

[Sister]

Hi Walter Goraj jr

Good scriptures.  I have spoken enough now, and it's only fair to give you the opportunity to share your thoughts and interpretation.  So yes, please, go ahead.  I am interested in what you have to say.

[Sister]

19 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Thank you sister.

I am sure others who interpret Rev.20 in the symbolic sense could disagree with me on this. Just always desiring to find harmony in scripture. (humble disclaimer)

Greetings Walter

Yes, many will, but not necessarily speak up.  Especially when the conversation is between two people, but on the other hand there will be a few who interpret as you do.  I do appreciate you sharing however and for having this conversation with me. 

 

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Do the "10" Kings in revelation 17:12 have authority with the "beast" for just "one" literal hour? Will the faithful from the church of Smyrna only suffer tribulation for an actual "ten" days? But could this be a way that God illustrates long or short periods of time? ( this is the "hidden wisdom"1Cor.2:7 found throughout the whole Bible)

 

Yes, I agree, one hour is symbolic for an amount of time,..which we know is a short time.  I found out a long time ago, that with the deeper things involving God's plan, he doesn't just lay everything out on a silver platter, because he wants us to seek him out through everything his Word says.  To take everything into account that he has revealed.

We know the 10 kings who have authority with the beast is 3.5 yrs, which is a very short time, hence we can interpret what that one hour is through that particular context, and we can back it up with corresponding scriptures.

 

Daniel 7:25   And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

 Daniel 12:7   And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

 Revelation 13:5   And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
 

We know what that one hour symbolises now because we were given the answer in other scriptures, and not taking a shot in the dark.  One hour here is symbolic and not literal.

 

Now regarding the 10 days, it's something that I have pondered over a lot. 

 Revelation 2:10   Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

These words stand out to me.  Prison, tried, tribulation, ten days, and unto death.

If you know about the mark of the beast, they will do all they can to get us to submit.  This is about those who will be thrown into prison.  Who knows what method of persuasion they will use on us?  What this scripture tells me is that it's only ten days of this trial to our end, no more.  It will not be dragged out further. 

When the time comes, this scripture should come to our remembrance, and should comfort us. If we have been searching, we should know what's coming.  . I don't see it as symbolic and at the same time I can't prove or disprove it from the scriptures.  I am just giving my own take.

 

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Revelation 20 :1,3,7:  " thousand years"= the completeness of time from the cross of Christ until the beginning of the time of the Great Tribulation.   Satan was cast out of God's presence as in Job 1:6-7 and confined to Earth's atmosphere Rev 12:9- 10 or in more colorful language " cast into the bottomless pit."

But Christ died over 2000 years ago.  I pray you will consider this.

If you read Job 1:6-7 again, Satan wasn't cast out of God's presence, but was in God's presence.  Obviously, there was a meeting in heaven and Satan was not cast out yet, therefore still had access between heaven and earth.

The bottomless pit is not on the earth, but under the earth.  It's where God put darkness, down below. Darkness that has no end.  The foundation of evil comes out of that place. Evil comes from below, and light comes from above.

 

Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 

Satan was not thrown out of heaven until Jesus conquered death.  There was war in heaven after the resurrection of Christ.  Heaven was cleaned out, and the devil was cast to the earth.  Not cast yet into the bottomless pit.  There is a big difference between the two, they are not the same and cannot be used interchangeably.   As the scripture states, Satan was cast unto the earth and he's been here the whole time deceiving the nations. We know that because we know that the world has not had a rest from him for even one day, nor one hour, or even 1 minute.  This is what we are waiting for, Christ to return and bind him, because he's too strong for us.  Only Christ is qualified for this job.  Man cannot do it.  All has to be fulfilled until Satan is bound.

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Rev 20:3. Obviously during this time Satan has the ability to cause a lot of great pain and suffering and destruction but as far as the gospel goes it's hands off- he is bound in the spiritual sense. I like to say " Satan bound, gospel loosed"

He is bound to a degree because God is holding the strings.  Yes Satan cannot stop the spreading of the gospel, but he sure has had a hand in corrupting the truth amongst the masses.   When Christ casts Satan into the bottomless pit, he's going to put a seal on that lid.  Satan cannot get out.  Cannot operate on the earth.  He cannot deceive the nations whilst he is in there, nor can not be detained with the type of bars and gates we use.  This prison he is going to is real.  It's a real prison for spirits. Locked away for a time, for a thousand years.  I don't see the thousand years symbolic of anything, but only that "rest" God spoke about is the symbolic word for the thousand year period.

I am not sure I've addressed all that you've said here, but I read your reply carefully and checked out all your scriptures and answered as best as I could.  I just pray that you read some of those OT prophecies and ponder over them a little and take into careful consideration of what I mentioned before in my other posts.  They are real glimpses into the future.  Sneak previews into a time that has never happened before.  Even though there is a lot of symbolism throughout the scriptures, there are some things that are literal, and so wonderful that it's hard to picture, but written for us to find and know.

God bless.

 

 

[Sister]

10 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Hello again. Really appreciate the discussion. Yes there is a lot going on here! I will need time to look at everything. I'm sure there are some scriptures that I would like to develop with other  verses.

I did not know that when two people are having the conversation that no one else can see it is that correct?

Thanks Walter Goraj jr

No, everyone can see, but not everyone likes to join in.

Look I don't think you will find any two people here that will agree 100% on each other's interpretation and that's ok, because that's the way it is for now;

Luke 12:51   Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
 

When Jesus comes, he will straighten out the doctrine because there will be only one truth and one teaching.  That I look forward to.  And that time will tell if we have been walking in truth or error according to the doctrine we received in this life.  I don't have a church to protect, or any of their doctrines already laid out for me to defend.  I was not drawn to that, but drawn to the living Word to find truth for myself.  In that truth I found salvation, and the Lord was so patient with me, and let me make mistakes in order to be humbled and corrected.  If I read something down the track that did not harmonise with the doctrine that was forming in me, I had to go back to the drawing board and correct.  When this happened, I saw the creases slowly being ironed out and there was much rejoicing.  This journey of truth, is a journey of learning and much patience is required, not only with ourselves, but others also.  You said you didn't learn from a church either, and that is probably the reason why we can speak so amicably to each other.  We are not protecting someone else's views, but our own which took much time and dedication to search out.

You are still my brother, and I am still your sister, whether each one of us is wrong or right.  Our common bond is Jesus Christ, that we know for sure.    Without him we wouldn't even be having these conversations of the written word.  The main thing is that we keep love foremost in our hearts, and be on the guard for pride and arrogance which is the quickest way to destroy our soul, and to have what the Lord wants to show us, taken away and be blocked from the full truth.

 

1 Peter 5:5   Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

 

 Mark 4:24   And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

Mark 4:25   For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

 

God bless.