unworthyservant Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Seasoned by Grace said: The chosen few of Israel are still very much a part of God's plan, just like the chosen few in the U.S., and the rest of the world are too. You hit the nail on the head. I just want to point out that it's just a FEW in each case and each share equally in God's plan! To say that we as Americans are specially chosen and thus I guess (by implication) more important in God's plan just doesn't fit with anything I can find in the Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Nadjeschda said: God‘s own country really does not make sense because god owns the world But the USA really have some forms of Christianity which are very distinct from Europe or which have gone extinct here. Although some of this forms (like prosperity gospel) are not really what I understand to be very Christian there are surely a lot of things that I can learn from you too. Just be careful what you learn and from whom. My opinion is VET everything by the Scripture and if necessary research every resource to get to the bottom of any teaching that you hear or see. Some of the false teachers can be pretty convincing until you peel back the layers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned by Grace Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 350 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, unworthyservant said: You hit the nail on the head. I just want to point out that it's just a FEW in each case and each share equally in God's plan! To say that we as Americans are specially chosen and thus I guess (by implication) more important in God's plan just doesn't fit with anything I can find in the Scriptures. My dear sister unworthyservant, I knew this would hit some nerves when I said this, but it wasn't anymore about the U.S being better than any other country, anymore than God originally choosing Israel to represent Him back in Exodus and Israel being better than any other country. They weren't. It was just God's choice. Sometimes it's like that with GOD. You still seem to have a hard time with reading things into what I say that aren't there. Why not take my statements at face value instead of adding things (Quote - "thus I guess (by implication) more important")....(Your assumption). Also, are we so blind to the history of the beginning of the U.S. that we need to see it in the bible to believe that God created this country for His purpose (SANCTIFIED). This country is the only country since Israel to be founded on Godly principles, and has done it's best to carry out those principles to the point of war to not only guarantee our freedom, but also our FREEDOM TO WORSHIP for those already here, and for those yet to come later. Where else in the world have people gone and have become believers in Christ in such mass numbers? We don't always need it in the bible to see Gods plan in action. We, as a country are a beacon of Gods light to the world. God says We are to be a light. God gave us eyes to see and the ability to discern, and a brain that allows us to reason, and I believe we are to understand His plan for this country, and put that to use in whatever situation we are put in for His Glory. "In all that you do, do to the glory of GOD" !!! My deepest prayers for a life full of His Grace and Mercy for you in Christ - Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 hours ago, unworthyservant said: And Christ told us exactly how to handle it. You have touched on a subject that really bears repeating, that is the fact that consumerism is a BIG problem in today's society. It has always been so, but with modern technology and marketing we have taken excess to new heights. I have often quoted consumer spending numbers to illustrate that point and none does it so well as the $750B that is spent by Christian consumers on Christmas. That number doesn't include charitable giving, it's only retail sales. Is that how Christ would have us celebrate His birth, by spending $750B on gifts and decorations and the like for ourselves and our friends and family while many are starving around the world? Just in the period from what's known as Black Friday until Christmas it's estimated that as many as 700,000 will die from hunger around the world. There are approximately 1 Billion who are underfed. I wonder what us "rich" Capitalistic Christians will say when God points out that while these folks were dying we were spending our money on material things for ourselves and our friends to celebrate Christ's birth. I feel less lonely when I find other people touched by that suffering and inequality too. Because sometimes I feel like an alien when I see all this superficiality and greed around. My Lutherian neighbors (farmers) would make presents for each other instead of buying them. I remember making Christmas decorations from straw there, carrying them back to my agnostic mother and giving them to her for Christmas. She was completely delighted because her own supply of straw stars was running out, they where reminding her of her own childhood, they where difficult to buy in this part of Germany and they took a long time to make That is a valuable Christmas gift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Seasoned by Grace said: You still seem to have a hard time with reading things into what I say that aren't there. Why not take my statements at face value instead of adding things (Quote - "thus I guess (by implication) more important")....(Your assumption). That's exactly why I put it in quotations and said "guess" so as to denote it was what I read into it and not a quote. 9 minutes ago, Seasoned by Grace said: This country is the only country since Israel to be founded on Godly principles, I believe that about the only real Godly principle that this country is based on is the freedom of religion. (There are a few more minor ones but that one is the biggest and the longest standing) All the other laws and principles are of men and while many of those men were God fearing that doesn't take away fro the fact that our principles are based on much more that Godly ones. Most scholars site three underlying principles. First is that of Inherent Rights. Those found in the Bill of Rights are the first example and then we have the subsequent amendments, so of which are Godly, some not so much. Second is the idea of government "By the people, for the people". Our version of Democracy is the result of that principle. Not necessarily Godly but in no way ungodly. The third is separation of Powers (between the 3 Branches of Government). Again neither Godly or ungodly. Our system of Popular Sovereignty on which the Constitution is based has been defined as "a doctrine in political theory that government is created by and subject to the will of the people". Again, neutral but not Godly. Technically we are a "Federal Republic" with Democracy as our way of allowing citizens to choose and hold accountable our leaders. The Government is actually a mix of Federalism and Republicanism (both secular theories that on their own in no way have any Godly inference) in which power is shared by the Federal Government and the States. Again, good principles but not necessarily Godly. You state that you believe we are the only country since Israel to be founded on Godly principles. I believe that no country is based strictly (or even mostly) on Godly principles and I imagine that there might be others who are a little closer than we are just because of Demographic reasons if for no other. What about the Holy Roman Empire where many countries were based on what they believed to be Godly principles handed down by the Pope? Is it Godly principles that have led to the mess we find our country in today? I think not! I don't know about other countries so much since I'm no expert on other Governments, but since so little of our Government is based on "Godly principles" it just stands to reason that the possibility exists that someone somewhere has more than we. That's all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 50 minutes ago, Seasoned by Grace said: Where else in the world have people gone and have become believers in Christ in such mass numbers? I also believe that those mass numbers are greatly exaggerated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, unworthyservant said: I also believe that those mass numbers are greatly exaggerated! Often quality counts more than mass. Be further warned that the desire of the US to amass worldly treasures can turn into a major trap for other Christians. Because your country is turning silently and slowly atheistic too. And unluckily it is not only home to so many Christians but the Dawkins foundation too. I foresee a day where the richest country of the world becomes majoritarian atheist and pours all its money in the Dawkins foundation. Next the Dawkins foundation will use this worldly treasure Jesus warned us so wholeheartedly about to harass all the rest of the world ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Nadjeschda said: Often quality counts more than mass. Be further warned that the desire of the US to amass worldly treasures can turn into a major trap for other Christians. Because your country is turning silently and slowly atheistic too. And unluckily it is not only home to so many Christians but the Dawkins foundation too. I foresee a day where the richest country of the world becomes majoritarian atheist and pours all its money in the Dawkins foundation. Next the Dawkins foundation will use this worldly treasure Jesus warned us so wholeheartedly about to harass all the rest of the world ... I'm not going to go that far out on the limb but you are correct that we seem to be turning further from God by the day. As for Mr. Dawkins and his foundation that's another story all together and could make a separate topic somewhere here (they have many areas that I haven't even had time to explore but I would imagine there's one that's suited for such a discussion) All I'll say on that is to Paraphrase Thomas Bacon who after getting himself in hot water with the church because of his famous "Knowledge alone is power" quote he said something to the effect of; A little knowledge of science would lead one to believe that there is no God, a little more however will lead him right back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, unworthyservant said: A little knowledge of science would lead one to believe that there is no God, a little more however will lead him right back again. This is not about knowledge anymore but about power. If Dawkins gets hold of the American wealth he will destroy the religions or cause the Third World War. I would recommend you the Christian philosopher Hegel. He saw very clearly that History moves in Phase of creativity and degradation and that this is part of gods plan because in a sense life is movement. So while the US had great moments in terms of protecting Christianity (and thanks for saving me from the Nazi) this does not mean that it can not degrade into something dangerous for Christians in the future - especially if you focus on wealth generation so much. I just gave you a scenario how that could work. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fqph.fs.quoracdn.net%2Fmain-qimg-1997966d7730d3e3fc57d0b8a9879bba.webp&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quora.com%2FWhat-is-the-growth-rate-of-the-atheist-population-in-the-world-right-now&docid=zzAEc5akvIzgaM&tbnid=zXWaI_3VYozJDM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiz-a7ykNfkAhXpxaYKHUBZDAQQMwhBKAAwAA..i&w=481&h=348&client=firefox-b-d&bih=1064&biw=1920&q=atheism usa statistics over time&ved=0ahUKEwiz-a7ykNfkAhXpxaYKHUBZDAQQMwhBKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8 Edited September 17, 2019 by Nadjeschda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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