saved34 Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 hours ago, ReneeIW said: Just wondering if all Churches still teach that the Scriptures about Adam and Eve were meant to be taken literally? I've always taken them literally, but now I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I'm the only one. All the evil and destruction in the world happened because they ate a piece of fruit? Why not guard the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with a flaming sword the same way the tree of life was eventually guarded? Yes they disobeyed God, but did the punishment fit the crime? The Old Testmant spends a lot of time talking about how just/fair God is, and more importantly, how merciful He is. Why no mercy in the Garden if all they did was eat a piece of fruit? I believe it is very literal. I also believe Christ is the ultimate answer to all your questions. Sin against God is deserving of death. He is our creator, and he didn’t make us puppets or robots. He gave clear warnings of what not to do and what to do. As a Holy and righteous God who cannot overlook sin he did show mercy. He made them coats of skin, and gave them a temporary way to continue fellowship with him (as was shown by Abel)until he would eventually crush his own Son for us all. God Loves man, and desires us to be with him. In Adam we would not be heirs of God, seated at his right hand. In Christ, man is at a level where Adam could have never taken us. Our fall was really a blessing. Christ Jesus is now enjoying the glory he had before, but as a man bringing all of us who believe with him. Heb 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. We have his divine nature in Christ, where as Adam was simply innocent and made from dust. 2Pe 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 2Pe 1:4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted September 16, 2019 10 hours ago, ReneeIW said: Just wondering if all Churches still teach that the Scriptures about Adam and Eve were meant to be taken literally? I've always taken them literally, but now I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I'm the only one. All the evil and destruction in the world happened because they ate a piece of fruit? Why not guard the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with a flaming sword the same way the tree of life was eventually guarded? Yes they disobeyed God, but did the punishment fit the crime? The Old Testmant spends a lot of time talking about how just/fair God is, and more importantly, how merciful He is. Why no mercy in the Garden if all they did was eat a piece of fruit? It is possible to contradict everything in the Bible simply be creating new "interpretations" for everything that is in the Bible. Stick with the literal interpretations until you have a solid reason to do otherwise. Don't let other people talk you into believing things that are not true. You'll find a lot of people, even within our churches, who will try to do that, people who you'd think are very wise and ought to know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted September 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2019 I take the whole Bible literally. That is the way God wants us to read it. How can we learn the truth unless we do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 12 hours ago, ReneeIW said: Just wondering if all Churches still teach that the Scriptures about Adam and Eve were meant to be taken literally? I've always taken them literally, but now I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I'm the only one. All the evil and destruction in the world happened because they ate a piece of fruit? Why not guard the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with a flaming sword the same way the tree of life was eventually guarded? Yes they disobeyed God, but did the punishment fit the crime? The Old Testmant spends a lot of time talking about how just/fair God is, and more importantly, how merciful He is. Why no mercy in the Garden if all they did was eat a piece of fruit? These observations and questions strike at a few issues many Christians have wrestled with for a long time. If sin is defined exclusively as breaking rules, then it perhaps does seem extreme that eating a fruit caused all this and merited capital punishment. However, if sin is seen too as a contagion of a lethal virus with a 100% mortality rate and 100% infection rate upon contact, it is different. The virus infects all of us, mutates, gets worse and shows up in different forms, and affects some more than others. Death is a consequence of sin. One thing worse than the evil in our temporal world is the same evil unleashed in eternity with immortality. The primary issue is the coming into existence of a sin nature in humans which corrupts us, makes it impossible for us to be in complete control of ourselves, and causes us to be corrupted broken versions of the individuals God intends for us to be. Individual acts of sin flow out of the sin nature. We cannot fix this on our own but require the atoning work of Christ to become new creations in Christ. I'm going to stop with that and not get into the unending debate over freewill and divine sovereignty about the potential inevitability of original sin, etc. The question of what passages in scripture to take literally and which to take figuratively has led to much debate among Christians. There are many nuances but I'm going to risk an oversimplification of what I see as the main points. There are actually two questions involved with this. The first is whether or not the Bible is reliable and can be trusted on vital matters such as the person of Jesus Christ, His atoning work, resurrection, and the work of the Holy Spirit. The second is which passages are to be taken literally and which figuratively or symbolically. Some Christians treat these questions as essentially one and the same and others treat them separately. This can turn into debates over if a "real" Christian has to believe the earth is 6000 years old or what the shape of the earth is. Some Christians make literalness on all issues an all or nothing proposition that one either believes all of the Bible or none of the Bible. Other Christians do not. My observation is that the majority of evangelicals take Adam and Eve to be actual individuals. This includes Christians who believe the earth is 6000 years old and those who think it could be much older. Most evangelicals look at the NT treating Adam and Eve as actual individuals and go with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said: Most evangelicals look at the NT treating Adam and Eve as actual individuals and go with that. I believe they are actual individuals as well. I was questioning whether the eating of the fruit was symbolic. In Romans 5, Paul says not everyone sinned the same way as Adam, implying that Adams sin was worse than others. I was thinking that Adam sinned against God, but the story about the fruit was used as a symbol to convey the message that Adam sinned. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Edited September 17, 2019 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 Everyone thinks it was an apple that Adam and Eve ate but maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted September 17, 2019 15 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said: My observation is that the majority of evangelicals take Adam and Eve to be actual individuals. That is a pretty good observation. They were both individuals, and also biblically one flesh. Genesis 1:27 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 5:2 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 1 Corinthians 11:8-9 8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. Genesis 2:20-24 20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and shall be one flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 On 9/16/2019 at 7:45 AM, ReneeIW said: Just wondering if all Churches still teach that the Scriptures about Adam and Eve were meant to be taken literally? I've always taken them literally, but now I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I'm the only one. All the evil and destruction in the world happened because they ate a piece of fruit? Why not guard the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with a flaming sword the same way the tree of life was eventually guarded? Yes they disobeyed God, but did the punishment fit the crime? The Old Testmant spends a lot of time talking about how just/fair God is, and more importantly, how merciful He is. Why no mercy in the Garden if all they did was eat a piece of fruit? there is a lot more to it than just eating of that tree. Keep in mind that some day we will judge angels... The New Testament tells us this.... Odd thing about the story is that Adam and Eve were not created with the skills of doing this.... they did not understand the difference between right and wrong until the eating of that tree. And there are physical and spiritual things that can accomplish this.... so in the end it was Satan himself that gave the human race the ability to be the jury that would condemn them in the end.... That means that God intended for it to happen from the start.... Also look at what happened prior to all this.... God creates this very powerful lovely being known as Lucifer and put him in the protection of the throne.... and that being turned on God and wants to replace him with himself.... the ultimate betrayal. Also keep in mind that after men started having daughters the Sons of God (also known as angels) decided to come down and take wives from those they wished, and in the process taught men things that was never meant to be..... Sorcery, war, sexual deprivation and all kinds of things that corrupted the human race both genetically and ethically.... so he destroyed it all but Noah's family and another original set of animals and such... and yes that is literal.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2019 It is not the fruit of the tree that was important, it was rebellion against God that was what was so bad. That was satan's sin as well, and they fell into satan's domain when they ate of the tree. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 17, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Willa said: It is not the fruit of the tree that was important, it was rebellion against God that was what was so bad. That was satan's sin as well, and they fell into satan's domain when they ate of the tree. Why was their rebellion considered so bad when they were ignorant of what they were doing? Scripture seems to make allowances for those who do things out of ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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