The Heavenly Jerusalem.

[Marilyn C]

JERUSALEM

When people think of Jerusalem they often mean the city part and forget that Mount Zion is also included in Jerusalem. King David built his royal palace on Mount Zion, and later king Solomon built the Temple there too.

God`s word tells us concerning the two parts of Jerusalem.

`Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Zion; put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city!` (Isa. 52:1)

`For Zion`s sake I will not hold my peace and for Jerusalem`s sake I will not rest.` (Isa. 62: 1)

 

Now we are told that `Jerusalem above is free and is the mother of us all.` (Gal. 4: 26)

So what does the heavenly Jerusalem look like?

`For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched........but you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels.` (Heb. 12: 18 & 22)

We are told that the heavenly Jerusalem is also made of two parts: Mount Zion and the city.

 

Now we ask, `Why two parts and who will be in them?`

Mount Zion.

I believe God`s word tells us that Mount Zion was the seat of the throne, on earth by King David, and in heaven the Lord Jesus Christ. The Body of Christ has been promised that they will rule and reign with the Lord on His throne, and that will be, I believe from Mount Zion.

Christ said - `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

So who then is in the city part of the heavenly Jerusalem?

`...they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a CITY for them.` (Heb.11: 16)

These are, I believe, the Old Testament saints who believed God for the promise of the city.

 

Summing up I believe -

Mount Zion for the Body of Christ.                                                                                           

The City for the Old Testament saints.

 

`God having provided something better, (greater dominion) for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.` (Heb. 11: 40)

 

[Marilyn C]

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

" Rejoice greatly, O daughtet of Zion ; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee : He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." (Zechariah 9:9)

I think Zion is just another name for Jerusalem

Hi Walter,

Yes Zion is another name for Jerusalem, and there is an earthly Jerusalem and a heavenly Jerusalem.

`But you have come to MOUNT Zion AND to the CITY of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,....` (Heb. 12: 22) 

There we see clearly the two aspects of Jerusalem - the MOUNT and the CITY.

The MOUNT is the ruling area, while the CITY is lower down .

The Body of Christ will be on MOUNT Zion, ruling with the Lord, while the Old Testament saints will be in the CITY part, which will be lower down. Remember the CITY comes DOWN out of heaven from God.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

"But you have come to MOUNT Zion AND to the CITY of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,....` (Heb. 12:22) "

What I would like to do is finish where you left off on this verse:

"....heavenly jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, (v.23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, [which are written in heaven], and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,"

So when we follow the context, this "heavenly Jerusalem" is the assembly of ALL whose names are "written in heaven"

" And there shall in no wise enter into it (the "heavenly" or "new" jerusalem)  anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie:  but they which are [written in the Lamb's book of life.]" ( Rev. 21:27)

 

Hi Walter,

Now I see why you think that but perhaps we can have a closer look. Now I`m glad you wrote out the other verses. So this is what God`s word says -

The Heavenly Jerusalem - made up of Mount Zion and the city, (2 parts).

Those in the General Assembly - the Church of the First-born AND the spirits of just men (& women) which are the Old Testament Saints.

 

So what does God`s word tell us regarding where those 2 groups go?

Old Testament Saints - looked for a heavenly city. (Heb. 11: 16) This is the New Jerusalem which comes DOWN out of the (higher) heaven to the Universal heavens.

 The Church, the Body of Christ - they go to the Lord`s throne. (Rev. 3: 21) And the Lord`s throne in on MOUNT ZION (Ps. 2: 6) which does not come DOWN but is in the higher heaven.

 

Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

I'm sorry. I just don't see that kind of separation of people in Scripture I see us all as one in Christ.

Hi Walter,

I quite understand. Now had you thought about God making the different realms, (Col. 1: 16) and that each of these will have rulership under Christ.

In my blogs `Marilyn`s Messages,` I am currently doing a series on `The Eternal Purposes of God.` You may like to look at that and see what God has purposed for those different realms.

regards, Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

On 9/16/2019 at 9:10 PM, Marilyn C said:

JERUSALEM

When people think of Jerusalem they often mean the city part and forget that Mount Zion is also included in Jerusalem. King David built his royal palace on Mount Zion, and later king Solomon built the Temple there too.

God`s word tells us concerning the two parts of Jerusalem.

`Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Zion; put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city!` (Isa. 52:1)

`For Zion`s sake I will not hold my peace and for Jerusalem`s sake I will not rest.` (Isa. 62: 1)

 

Now we are told that `Jerusalem above is free and is the mother of us all.` (Gal. 4: 26)

So what does the heavenly Jerusalem look like?

`For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched........but you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels.` (Heb. 12: 18 & 22)

We are told that the heavenly Jerusalem is also made of two parts: Mount Zion and the city.

 

Now we ask, `Why two parts and who will be in them?`

Mount Zion.

I believe God`s word tells us that Mount Zion was the seat of the throne, on earth by King David, and in heaven the Lord Jesus Christ. The Body of Christ has been promised that they will rule and reign with the Lord on His throne, and that will be, I believe from Mount Zion.

Christ said - `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

So who then is in the city part of the heavenly Jerusalem?

`...they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a CITY for them.` (Heb.11: 16)

These are, I believe, the Old Testament saints who believed God for the promise of the city.

 

Summing up I believe -

Mount Zion for the Body of Christ.                                                                                           

The City for the Old Testament saints.

 

`God having provided something better, (greater dominion) for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.` (Heb. 11: 40)

 

Hey Marilyn C...

Got a question for you pertaining to the New Jerusalem, that no one has adequately given an explanation as to why? Probably one of those questions we'll have to just wait and see?

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  [emphasis added]

We know the New Jerusalem coming down to earth from heaven will be 1,400 x 1,400 x 1,400 miles in diameter [depending who's measurement one uses]. The word "mansions" might be better translated as "rooms". I assume this means each Christian may have his / her own room? If so, what would you think we need a room for? 

Having our glorified bodies, will we need rest or sleep? I see no need for any sort of privacy. To get out of the weather, I would think not? To personally entertain & socialize, why in a personal room? To store our rewards or possessions maybe, I'd doubt that too? 

You ever thought about this and have any opinions??

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hey Marilyn C...

Got a question for you pertaining to the New Jerusalem, that no one has adequately given an explanation as to why? Probably one of those questions we'll have to just wait and see?

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  [emphasis added]

We know the New Jerusalem coming down to earth from heaven will be 1,400 x 1,400 x 1,400 miles in diameter [depending who's measurement one uses]. The word "mansions" might be better translated as "rooms". I assume this means each Christian may have his / her own room? If so, what would you think we need a room for? 

Having our glorified bodies, will we need rest or sleep? I see no need for any sort of privacy. To get out of the weather, I would think not? To personally entertain & socialize, why in a personal room? To store our rewards or possessions maybe, I'd doubt that too? 

You ever thought about this and have any opinions??

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for asking so nicely. Always so good to discuss with you bro.

So we first ask ourselves `Who is the Lord speaking to?` and `Is it a truth for us?`

 

The Lord is speaking to people in Israel. Israel was promised an earthly inheritance (to rule the nations) and Israel was also promised for those who had the faith to believe for more - a city, whose builder and Maker if God. (Heb. 11: 10)

`...for he (Abraham) waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker if God.` (Heb. 11: 10)

`But now, they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

Thus we see the city the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. God is the builder and maker of this city. As it is built in heaven of heavenly materials of which we do not know, God has given us symbols to guide our understanding.

For example - the `streets paved with gold.` (Rev. 21: 21) We know from God`s word that gold perishes, so it is not that. God`s word says `faith` is much more precious than gold. (1 Peter 1: 7) It is because these people believed, had faith in God for the promise of the city that they will inherit that.

`In My Father`s house are many mansions...` (John 14: 2)  This referring to a place for them in God`s great kingdom. `Mansions` Gk. word `mone` means a staying. These people have been promised a place in the heavenly universe realm, where they will be able to `stay, reside.` You are right Dennis that those in the city will not need all the things we have to have in our fleshly bodies.

 

So we now look at `Is it a truth for us?`

We, the Body of Christ have been promised by faith if we believe, to sit with the Lord on His throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His Throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus the question then is `Where is the Lord`s seat of power and authority?` We know from Ephesians that the Father `seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but in the one to come, and He put all things under His feet.` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

Thus the Lord Jesus` seat of power & authority is far above all. The Lord does NOT come down to a lower area. His authority is there in all realms and He obviously goes there, however His seat of power and authority is `far above all.` God the Father says, " I have set My King on Mount Zion." (Ps. 2: 6) And that is in the third heaven -

`You have come to Mount Zion.......` (Heb. 12: 22) Mount Zion is the ruling area, while the city comes down out of heaven from God.

Mount Zion for the Body of Christ in the third heaven.

The city for those who looked in faith for that city which comes down to the Universal area.

And for others on the new earth being ruled over by the nation of Israel.

Each realm has rulership under the Lord for He alone is worthy in character and with wisdom to rule righteously. He does not rule alone but will have those He has promised to rule with Him in each realm.

 

You may want to look at my recent blog series which deals with all this. `God`s Eternal Purposes.` Would value your input there, bro. Marilyn.

 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for asking so nicely. Always so good to discuss with you bro.

So we first ask ourselves `Who is the Lord speaking to?` and `Is it a truth for us?`

 

The Lord is speaking to people in Israel. Israel was promised an earthly inheritance (to rule the nations) and Israel was also promised for those who had the faith to believe for more - a city, whose builder and Maker if God. (Heb. 11: 10)

`...for he (Abraham) waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker if God.` (Heb. 11: 10)

`But now, they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

Thus we see the city the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. God is the builder and maker of this city. As it is built in heaven of heavenly materials of which we do not know, God has given us symbols to guide our understanding.

For example - the `streets paved with gold.` (Rev. 21: 21) We know from God`s word that gold perishes, so it is not that. God`s word says `faith` is much more precious than gold. (1 Peter 1: 7) It is because these people believed, had faith in God for the promise of the city that they will inherit that.

`In My Father`s house are many mansions...` (John 14: 2)  This referring to a place for them in God`s great kingdom. `Mansions` Gk. word `mone` means a staying. These people have been promised a place in the heavenly universe realm, where they will be able to `stay, reside.` You are right Dennis that those in the city will not need all the things we have to have in our fleshly bodies.

 

So we now look at `Is it a truth for us?`

We, the Body of Christ have been promised by faith if we believe, to sit with the Lord on His throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His Throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus the question then is `Where is the Lord`s seat of power and authority?` We know from Ephesians that the Father `seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but in the one to come, and He put all things under His feet.` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

Thus the Lord Jesus` seat of power & authority is far above all. The Lord does NOT come down to a lower area. His authority is there in all realms and He obviously goes there, however His seat of power and authority is `far above all.` God the Father says, " I have set My King on Mount Zion." (Ps. 2: 6) And that is in the third heaven -

`You have come to Mount Zion.......` (Heb. 12: 22) Mount Zion is the ruling area, while the city comes down out of heaven from God.

Mount Zion for the Body of Christ in the third heaven.

The city for those who looked in faith for that city which comes down to the Universal area.

And for others on the new earth being ruled over by the nation of Israel.

Each realm has rulership under the Lord for He alone is worthy in character and with wisdom to rule righteously. He does not rule alone but will have those He has promised to rule with Him in each realm.

 

You may want to look at my recent blog series which deals with all this. `God`s Eternal Purposes.` Would value your input there, bro. Marilyn.

 

 

 

Hi Marilyn,

Hum, I've never heard that explanation before? I'm going to have to read everything again with fresh eyes with your explanation in mind; it makes logical sense to me. 

My thoughts have been, the New Jerusalem is representative of both the Jew and Gentile; as their are twelve gates representing each of the twelve tribes, and twelve foundations representing the twelve Apostles [12 + 12 = 24]. It's my thoughts the 24 Elders represent the twelve tribes of Israel that were saved [Messianic Jew's], and the twelve apostles representing the saved during the age of Grace, all representing the rapture of the Church, as noted in the Book of Revelation. 

With the symbology of the New Jerusalem and the 24 Elders, I'm assuming they are associated. 

We will be ruling and reigning with Christ during the millennium. After the millennium when everything is burnt up, after the Great White Throne judgment and when the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven and the new creation. I see no indication mortal flesh and blood will be repopulating the earth again? Therefore; if that view is correct, everyone [both saved Jew and gentile] will have a glorified body. The Lord did promise the land to the Jew's forever, so forever means for all of eternity.

Many biblical scholars believe our eternal home will be the here on earth and the New Jerusalem. Your view is well worth studying and considering. Thank you!

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

" O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain ; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him : behold, His reward is with Him, and his work before Him.

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd :He shall gather the lambs with His arm , and carry them in his bosom , and shall gently lead those that are with young.                       ( Isaiah 40:9-11)

You can see this beautiful illustration of the Lord Jesus Christ coming and gathering together His people.  There is no difference between Zion and Jerusalem here. In fact in many places the Bible is worry this way this is known as a "reiteration." 

Christ, our "good shepherd" has  a flock, and this flock is not being distinguished in any way by one location or another one city or whatever- we're all one. Don't understand  searching for something that isn't there.

".....And I will make them one nation in the land.....and One King shall be King to them all.....so shall they be my people, and I will be their God........And David (a picture of Christ) my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd.... and my servant David shall be their prince forever..... and everlasting covenant with them.... and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for ever more..... I will be their God, and they shall be my people."                         ( Ezekiel 37:21-28)

Beautiful Old Testament language for the nature of Heaven, the kingdom of God.

 

 

Hi Walter,

You may not realise it but the revelation of the Body of Christ was not known in Old Testament times. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7) Thus what you are writing about in Isaiah and Ezekiel refers to Israel.

The Body of Christ has been promised another part of God`s great Kingdom.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Marilyn,

Hum, I've never heard that explanation before? I'm going to have to read everything again with fresh eyes with your explanation in mind; it makes logical sense to me. 

My thoughts have been, the New Jerusalem is representative of both the Jew and Gentile; as their are twelve gates representing each of the twelve tribes, and twelve foundations representing the twelve Apostles [12 + 12 = 24]. It's my thoughts the 24 Elders represent the twelve tribes of Israel that were saved [Messianic Jew's], and the twelve apostles representing the saved during the age of Grace, all representing the rapture of the Church, as noted in the Book of Revelation. 

With the symbology of the New Jerusalem and the 24 Elders, I'm assuming they are associated. 

We will be ruling and reigning with Christ during the millennium. After the millennium when everything is burnt up, after the Great White Throne judgment and when the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven and the new creation. I see no indication mortal flesh and blood will be repopulating the earth again? Therefore; if that view is correct, everyone [both saved Jew and gentile] will have a glorified body. The Lord did promise the land to the Jew's forever, so forever means for all of eternity.

Many biblical scholars believe our eternal home will be the here on earth and the New Jerusalem. Your view is well worth studying and considering. Thank you!

Hi Dennis,

That is very good of you to look into what I have been taught. Pray that the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to us all.

Now I also believe that the New Jerusalem is for OT Jews and some Gentiles, as Heb. 11 reveals. (Heb. 11: 31 - 35)

Then we read of the 12 tribes with their names on the `gates.` This symbolically represents `gates` of authority, and part of the rulership of that city. That would be the 144,000 priests of every tribe that we read about in Rev. 7: 1 - 8 & 14: 1 - 5).

The `walls` are 144 cubits. `Cubits`  meaning  `a bond.` 144,000 bonded priests of God. (Ex. 19: 6, a kingdom of priests.)

The names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb -delegated Kingship. (Matt. 19: 28)

Thus we read of the righteous rulership of this wonderful city is by the 12 apostles and the 1444,000 priests. All these under the Lordship of Christ.

 

As to the Body of Christ, yes I also agree that we will be ruling and reigning with Christ during the millennium in the third heaven, over all. We do not however go to a lower area and leave the upper one just to the angels. That would make the Lord`s seat of power and authority lower than the angels and lower even than where Lucifer held his rulership of kingpriest.

Then we read of the `nations of those who are saved,` ON the New Earth. (Rev. 21: 24) These are those who never heard of Jesus but lived a righteous life according to their conscience. They will be judged at the great white throne.

Also the great multitude from the great tribulation will also be on the new earth as they had `palm branches` in their hands. This indicates the `Tabernacle of God.` (Remember Israel used to make makeshift tabernacles in the wilderness before they had their temple.) And the word `Tabernacle` means dwelling, and that is what is happening when the New Jerusalem comes down near the earth, then it is that God will be dwelling (by His Spirit) with them and His Glory will be over the New earth.

Also people from the millennium who turned to God will be at the GWT and then go onto the New earth.

Now God never made an oops when He made the earth. That purpose will go on into eternity too. And the other realms will have righteous rulership from the third heaven, (angelic realm) through the Universal area, (New Jerusalem) and also on the New Earth. All under the Lord ship of Christ.

regards, Marilyn.