Catholic or Protestant

[mlbrokish]

In regards to Catholic or Protestant beliefs --

I quote the following from   differencebetween.net :

"The central focus of the Baptist Church is salvation through faith in God alone, whereas the Catholics believe in the same plus the belief in the Holy sacraments as the way to salvation."

If someone doesn't participate / complete the sacraments, are they not saved in the eyes of Catholic religion? 

[Sower]

14 minutes ago, mlbrokish said:

In regards to Catholic or Protestant beliefs --

I quote the following from   differencebetween.net :

"The central focus of the Baptist Church is salvation through faith in God alone, whereas the Catholics believe in the same plus the belief in the Holy sacraments as the way to salvation."

If someone doesn't participate / complete the sacraments, are they not saved in the eyes of Catholic religion? 

In the eyes of the RCC, you cannot presume you can be saved period. If you do,
that is the sin of presumption, and must be confessed to your priest.
 

[Debp]

16 minutes ago, mlbrokish said:

If someone doesn't participate / complete the sacraments, are they not saved in the eyes of Catholic religion? 

In the eyes of the Catholic Church, we wouldn't be saved.   However, I know a couple of Catholics here and they accept my mom and me as Christians.   One even asked me to pray for her and she is a Sister.   Catholics in other parts of the USA might be more ritualistic and therefore wouldn't agree with my two friends.

Here's a good explanation of other differences....

https://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

[Neighbor]

34 minutes ago, mlbrokish said:

In regards to Catholic or Protestant beliefs --

I quote the following from   differencebetween.net :

"The central focus of the Baptist Church is salvation through faith in God alone, whereas the Catholics believe in the same plus the belief in the Holy sacraments as the way to salvation."

If someone doesn't participate / complete the sacraments, are they not saved in the eyes of Catholic religion? 

i, Let me get out of my system  a giant Augh! There I feel better now. I am surprised at how often this kind of discussion goes from  Roman Catholic vs Protestant to Baptist vs Roman Catholic.

Seems much like the Jews think all non Jews are Gentiles, Roman Catholics think of  protestants as Baptists.

I suggest that clouds the thinking and causes a cross talk where neither party really hears the other in such a discussion. So let me state I am not Baptist. I do not think of myself as a protesting Roman Catholic, I am not protestant nor protesting anything at all.

It seems to me that the statement  believe in faith in God alone plus  whatever is then added including sacraments for salvation defeats the first part of the statement.

The differences between Roman Catholicism and Christianity is numerous, but boils down to the same error that hurts the body of Christ and ends up in endless debates on message boards and conferences over Calvin as well as once saved always saved.

To me it is a question of am I saved by any merit of my own or not?

Through Bible text reading and by prayer over the word of God and by experience I suggest that I have done absolutely nothing to merit salvation. Yet I am totally secure in Christ Jesus, my salvation, my eternal life forward is secure. It has been secured by Jesus alone, made known to me by the Holy Spirit alone, and will be honored by God the Father because of the willing sacrifice made by Jesus alone to cover the sin of those given to Him by His Father.

All the trappings of religious men,  though well meaning perhaps, cannot save me nor take my salvation away! 

So whether Roman, Catholic Eastern Orthodox, any of a number of mainline so called Protestant groups, or just a man  in the woods or jungle not knowing of any of these groups, it is always God alone that has foreknown, predestined, and has assured salvation  to each that are to be saved to eternal life with Him and saved from destruction by Him.

 It is God that is sovereign and not any body of rules makers for religion trying even their best to perform religiously to gain some special merit before God.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, mlbrokish said:

If someone doesn't participate / complete the sacraments, are they not saved in the eyes of Catholic religion? 

Hi again.

As an example of sacraments there are many involving the time of death of a Roman Catholic. There used to be more than there are now.

One duty of a Roman Catholic was to be buried in a Roman Catholic owned cemetery after all the rites ( last rites just before death itself).

As a funeral director and employee of a non sectarian cemetery we did battle with the Roman Catholic church all the time. RC families wanted to use our cemetery not the RCC one. So priests would come out in private after the public funeral of a Catholic and bless the site of burial or entombment at our cemetery.

One day I was driving a younger and friendly priest to our cemetery to bless a site privately for a family; and as we entered the cemetery he made a gesture, looked around  at the lawns and said to me, "Don do you realize the awesome power I have?" I looked and wondered oh oh where are we going with this? He laughed out loud and said to me with a sweeping motion of his hand "With one wave I could bless this whole cemetery." And the whole system of Roman Catholic cemeteries would collapse."

And you know what they did collapse, when one of our sales people figured a way to get  the community interested in  moving  their already dead and buried to our cemetery from the RCC owned one. We were also stunned as we found families coming into our office to move over 210 remains to our cemetery over a two year period of time. It was nothing we really wanted to be doing! Oh my, what  a task an unpleasant one at best, brutal at worst! 

But the disinterments were made and the burials or entombments  at our cemetery was done; and the Catholic cemetery district also lived up to their promise to their families to buy back any property not used, since they do not allow non Catholics to be buried in their cemeteries. The cost to them was rather substantial, and the entire concept of blessing only the burial sites at Catholic owned cemeteries ended abruptly! Priests including the local monsignor  came out publicly for burials and gave the rites of the church from then on.

The rites of the church were tied to the idea of  both privilege and duty of the church member in order to gain the saving blessing of the church leadership. But when it got right down to it, the financial cost to the church caused a change in the instructions for rites to be earned.

The whole idea of rosary  before burial has changed too. Rites are temporal at best. While God's gift of salvation  by the sacrifice made by Jesus does not change not a wit, no matter what church body or church led system is in play by any group.

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Can I just for clarification on this, as i am under the impression that any non Jew is a Gentile. Is there any other type of non-Jew?

You are Israeli or not. You can become Israeli by jumping thru their hoops, so that confounds the issue.

However, from God's stated view, thru the cross, all the saved are circumcision-neutral, so it doesn't matter anymore.

The apostle calls us all Israel - the saved. He says we are ALL the seed of Abraham.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Justin Adams

[Neighbor]

21 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Can I just for clarification on this, as i am under the impression that any non Jew is a Gentile. Is there any other type of non-Jew?

Not to a Jew. Not that I know of anyway. I worked with two congregations, one reformed one orthodox to start a Jewish cemetery as each congregation is required to do. They considered me gentile and insisted that all us gentiles take training in their needs for burial ceremony purposes.

This atheist gentile had one heck of a time convincing my Roman Catholic boss/owners  to part with land to create a Jewish cemetery within our own cemetery. At the end of two years of negotiations a contract was signed and  cemetery created.

One of the largest hurdles was negotiating with the grounds crews to get them to agree to work on Sundays for Sunday burials, something we had never done before. Had to settle for triple overtime wages being paid to them.

Over one year into the negotiation the orthodox congregation heard about it and wanted in, but had their own demands different from the reformed group.  

We had conversations about separation from the gentiles - did they need  a wall of a certain height, or was a road, or sidewalk of sufficient width  good enough? Who was going to pay for the land used to make the separation? Stuff like that  was  my life for two years, all the while working with our staff of funeral directors and sales people on Jewish customs and needs.

Again an example of people worrying about their own rites and obedience and worthiness.

None of which saves anyone at all.

Of course by God's doing alone I am not Roman Catholic, Jewish, Protestant,  nor Gentile. I am born again into the body  of Christ Jesus by God alone, a Christian yes, but a sinner saved by grace from God solely.

[Justin Adams]

Just now, maryjayne said:

by Israeli, do you mean Jew?

and I am asking a specific factual question from a post @Neighbor made. Not discussing the saved.

OK. Judah and Benjamin currently mostly inhabit Israel - the country. These are the two nations the Persians carried away and then allowed to return. So Judah is referred to as 'Jews' (of Judah).

The other Ten tribes of Israel remain largely scattered. Jews PLUS the ten = Israel.

However, when the nation was re-established in 1948, they decided to call it Israel in anticipation of the regathering of all tribes.

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, mlbrokish said:

If someone doesn't participate / complete the sacraments, are they not saved in the eyes of Catholic religion? 

This varies somewhat depending on the individual. All have their personal opinion, and some are more staunch about it than others. Most I've known personally seem to be more accepting to those outside their faith. Still the majority to feel an obligation to follow in the footsteps of how they've been raised.

This would include the aspect of indoctrination, confirmation, confession and of course, partaking holy communion. It's essential to them. I'm sure praying the rosary, supplication to the saints, especially Mary, who they deem remained a virgin is included in their beliefs. It's all the basics of the Catholic faith. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by BeauJangles

[Neighbor]

29 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Is there any other type of non-Jew?

Hi, to clarify yes! From my own perspective there is.  There is Christian where there is neither Jew nor Gentile according to my understanding of what has been shared within the Bible  and recorded as being stated by Paul. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."