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Will God give seven days warning before the Rapture as He warned Noah ?


R. Hartono

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1 hour ago, OldCoot said:

I think you are mistaken. those that are "taken" from the field in Matthew 24 are taken for destruction.  The passage before that sets up the concept of who is taken.  There is no support that the ones taken are the raptured believers.

Matthew 24:38-41 (NKJV) For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

It is not Believers that are taken, it is the condemned, just as it was in the days of Noah and the flood.  This lines up with the judgement of the nations as per Joel 3 and Matthew 25.

I don't believe you are correct. Those that are taken in Matt 24 are taken to the clouds. The ones that are left are cast into the wrath of God which is on the earth.

Matt 24

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Matt 24

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The Church will be gathered from heaven as they will be raptured before the tribulation. The 12 tribes go through the tribulation after fullness of the Gentiles comes in. They will be raptured from the earth prewrath. Jesus will be in the clouds and that is where the eagles will be.

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On 9/18/2019 at 12:50 AM, R. Hartono said:

Many people discuss this in Christian sites, that God might give 7 days warning before the rapture of the church as He did to Noah.

The rapture maniacs also give many warnings they claimed to be from God, with messages such as "Thus saith the Loooordd...." or "Behooold.....", showing their claimed signs, numerical calculations, omens, calendars, feasts, dreams, phi diagram, planetary positions, even mysterious knocking sound on the wall etc. etc. as the prophetic signs which only they know for sure.

While in reality, the Bible told us that christians are not even aware of that day they are taken as they will be busily working their daily job when the Rapture suddenly happens : (obviously they dont rcv a 7 days warning).

Matt 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The apostles asked Jesus when will He restore the kingdom of Israel :                            

Acts 1:7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
 

God did not give anyone 7 days warning at the time of the Flood.  He had Noah, family, and animals sealed inside the ark 7 days before the flood came.  The warning had been given for 120 year prior to that.  When the door to the ark was sealed, it was all over for anyone outside.   I am not convinced anyone could have gotten in nor could Noah get out. The door was sealed by Yahweh.

So I see no reason that there would be 7 days notice before the removal of the righteous.  I realize there is a 2 minute warning in football, but not so with the removal.   Everyone has gotten all the warning they are going to get for the last almost 2000 years.  

Edited by OldCoot
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On 12/5/2019 at 8:35 PM, OldCoot said:

God did not give anyone 7 days warning at the time of the Flood.  He had Noah, family, and animals sealed inside the ark 7 days before the flood came.  The warning had been given for 120 year prior to that.  When the door to the ark was sealed, it was all over for anyone outside.   I am not convinced anyone could have gotten in nor could Noah get out. The door was sealed by Yahweh.

So I see no reason that there would be 7 days notice before the removal of the righteous.  I realize there is a 2 minute warning in football, but not so with the removal.   Everyone has gotten all the warning they are going to get for the last almost 2000 years.  

Exactly. Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood with the ark doors closed. It is a picture of the Church being raptured before the 7oth week of Daniel and the coming wrath of God.

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And if one ties in some interesting things related to the "door" it gets even better.

Revelation 4:1 (NKJV) After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.

Isaiah 26:2 (NKJV) Open the gates,
That the righteous nation which keeps the truth may enter in.

Isaiah 26:19-21 (NKJV) Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;

The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

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One of my pet peeves is the claim that God will not give a warning before the rapture occurs.

It is true that a superficial reading of the Bible seems to imply that Jesus will return like a thief in the night without any warning and many people use this as an excuse to not prepare for His return.  Their reasoning is that since Jesus is coming as a thief and we cannot know when He will return, there is no way that we can prepare for it.

 

Let us take a closer look at the verses that claim Jesus is coming as a thief in the night.  Two of the verses in question are:

Therefore you too must always be ready, for the Son of Man will come when you are not expecting him. (Matthew 24:44)

 

You too, be ready! For the Son of Man will come when you are not expecting him. Luke 12:40

 

In these verses, Jesus is talking to the apostles and at that time what Jesus said was absolutely true.  When Jesus spoke these words, nobody knew the time Jesus would return.  But when we look at these verses in context, we see that Jesus is telling us that there would be signs at the end that would tell us when He was returning and told us to look for those signs.  Looking at the complete passage Matthew 24:15 says:

So when you see the abomination that causes devastation spoken about through the prophet Daniel standing in the Holy Place (let the reader understand the allusion)

 

In this passage, Jesus is talking to His disciples.  These are the people who would start the Church and there is no question that this passage was meant for the believers.  This means that in verse 15, Jesus is telling us that the Church will see the abomination that causes desolation.  The abomination is going to occur before the midpoint of the tribulation, so the Church will not only have 7 days of warning, we will have more than 42 months of warning.

Another passage that is used to that there will not be any advance warning of the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 5:1 – 2

1But you have no need to have anything written to you, brothers, about the times and dates when this will happen; 2because you yourselves well know that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

This is convincing until you read the next two verses:

3When people are saying, “Everything is so peaceful and secure,” then destruction will suddenly come upon them, the way labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there is no way they will escape.
4But you, brothers, are not in the dark, so that the Day should take you by surprise like a thief

 

Verse 4 specifically says that only the unbelievers will be surprised.  We, as believers versed in the Holy Scriptures, will not be surprised because we are searching the scriptures and interpreting what is happening in the world according to the light that the scriptures shine.

 

2 Peter 3:10 is another passage used to show the imminence of the rapture and that we will not know the time or day is.

10However, the Day of the Lord will come “like a thief.” On that Day the heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt and disintegrate, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up.

And again, when we look at the verses immediately after this one, we see:

11Since everything is going to be destroyed like this, what kind of people should you be? You should lead holy and godly lives, 12as you wait for the Day of God and work to hasten its coming. That Day will bring on the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt from the heat; 13but we, following along with his promise, wait for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness will be at home. 14Therefore, dear friends, as you look for these things, do everything you can to be found by him without spot or defect and at peace.

 

In verse 14, we are told to look for these things.  We are to look for these things because in the last days, we will be given signs that will tell us when Christ is returning so we will not be surprised.  If there were not any warning signs before the rapture, Peter would not have told us to look for signs.  Instead he would have told us to hold fast to our beliefs even when we do not see anything to indicate that Jesus is returning.

 

Another passage used is Revelation 3:3 where Jesus tells us He is coming as a thief

3So remember what you received and heard, and obey it, and turn from your sin! For if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief; and you don’t know at what moment I will come upon you.

 

But when we take a closer look, we see that Jesus is telling us that He is only coming like a thief to those who don’t wake up.  The obvious implication being that if we do wake up and search the scriptures, if we get to know who Jesus is and are saved, we will know when He is returning.


When put into context, every Bible verse that is used to claim that Jesus will return like a thief in the night and that we will never know when the rapture will occur is actually telling us that we are to look for signs and that at the proper time, we will be told when Jesus is returning and when the rapture will occur so that we will not be surprised when it happens.

Those Christians who recognize the abomination when they see it will have at least 42 months of warning.  I personally believe that we will recognize not just the abomination, but also the beginning of the Tribulation and will have close to seven years of warning as to when Jesus will be returning.

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On 9/20/2019 at 10:37 AM, Billiards Ball said:

The sun turns dark and the moon turns red at the rapture. After are the bowl judgments. This is clear as the sun and moon are part of the 6th Revelation seal and the bowls are part of the 7th. The pre-wrath rapture view allows for all eschatons, like Matthew 24, to be read chronologically, 1-then-2-then-3.

Thank you.

@Billiards Ball, Revelation 16:15 tells us that Jesus coming as a thief is still in the future.  This happens after the sixth bowl was poured out in Revelation 16:12.  Doesn't this mean that the rapture must happen after the sixth bowl rather than before the first bowl?

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44 minutes ago, John n Claudia said:

@Billiards Ball, Revelation 16:15 tells us that Jesus coming as a thief is still in the future.  This happens after the sixth bowl was poured out in Revelation 16:12.  Doesn't this mean that the rapture must happen after the sixth bowl rather than before the first bowl?

A good idea, but look at the verse. Believers have assurance and are raptured, once you see 16:15 is warning unbelievers of judgment (the verse is sandwiched between the bowls and Armageddon)...

Put further, biblically His coming is NOT like a thief to believers, only UNbelievers! We have the signs and know the approximate, not exact, time!!

Edited by Billiards Ball
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2 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

A good idea, but look at the verse. Believers have assurance and are raptured, once you see 16:15 is warning unbelievers of judgment (the verse is sandwiched between the bowls and Armageddon)...

Put further, biblically His coming is NOT like a thief to believers, only UNbelievers! We have the signs and know the approximate, not exact, time!!

Are you saying that the rapture occurs and we meet Jesus in the air at His second coming before the first bowl and then Jesus returns a third time like a thief to take care of the unbelievers?

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4 minutes ago, John n Claudia said:

Are you saying that the rapture occurs and we meet Jesus in the air at His second coming before the first bowl and then Jesus returns a third time like a thief to take care of the unbelievers?

No, I'm nowhere recorded as teaching third visits.

The Rapture is at the Days of Awe in the Jewish calendar, just before the bowls are poured out. Believers are judged than receive rewards and feast in Heaven, the Jewish people mourn for missing Messiah as the armies move on Jerusalem. The bowls strike for some days, Jesus returns to end Armageddon and usher in the Millennium.

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@Billiards Ball, So the church is raptured at the Days of Awe and we meet Jesus in the air as Paul says, but Jesus does not continue all the way down to the Earth, so this is not His Second coming.  Then a little later on, after the first six bowls are poured, Jesus does return all the way to the Earth, bringing us with Him to punish the Gentiles and usher in the Millennial Kingdom.

My understanding is that the armies are going to converge on Jerusalem around 30 days before the midpoint of the tribulation since that is when the antichrist declares himself to be God and the abomination of desolation occurs.  Does this mean that we should look for a mid-trib rapture?

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