Will God give seven days warning before the Rapture as He warned Noah ?

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

So you do not believe in OSAS?

I find some truth in the idea. 

I also see determinism in the doctrine.

If we make a choice for Jesus, we confess He is the Lord and we believe God raised Him from the dead, then it seems to me we can also make a choice to turn away if we like. Not that we would. The option must be there if the choice for the Lord is free will action. 

Adam and Eve saw the Lord everyday. They made a choice to turn away and were punished for it, we all are.

If remain trusting the Lord in love and truth there is no outside influence that can remove us from His house, His care, and or His protection. Only a personal decision on the individuals part can do that.

So I guess the answer is yes. And no.

[Justin Adams]

8 hours ago, wingnut- said:

According to Jesus, they are taken to where the vultures are gathered.  A bit difficult to explain that from a pre-trib position, which is probably why this passage is not often brought up.

Good thinking. Turns a lot of man-ology right on its head. We just are not sure about this and so many of our end times scenarios are flawed.

Suffice to say we are saved, and don't preach to unknowing believers a false ending... 

[Justin Adams]

8 hours ago, The Light said:

There is plenty of proof that the early Church believed in a pre trib rapture,

By 'early church' are you quoting Augustine, church fathers, apostles or what.

It is not a 'for certain' thing, so to preach it is is going to muddy the waters for many believers.

Do you have a dyspeptic view of other's ideas, or are you just a pedant?

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Do you have a dyspeptic view of other's ideas, or are you just a pedant?

Neither. Mostly Floydian.

I see that you take a peptic regurgitory view of others ideas without regard to verisimilitude.

[Justin Adams]

31 minutes ago, The Light said:

Neither. Mostly Floydian.

I see that you take a peptic regurgitory view of others ideas without regard to verisimilitude.

So you and Augustine would get along well...

[Billiards Ball]

12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The sentence stated that the prewrath rapture would include.....No, the rapture is an event that stands alone. It does not "include" anything but the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the catching up of those alive in Christ.

There are signs that accompany the Rapture. It is not a standalone event. For example, Paul says the Return and OUR GATHERING TO HIM will NOT occur before the antichrist sits in the Third Temple, declaring he is God, scattering the Jewish people (then making war against Jews and Christians, beheading them, the fifth seal of Revelation).

[Billiards Ball]

12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The classical prewrath theory insists that the days of GT will take place during the seals - before the Day of the Lord starting at the 6th seal. Why? Because that is the start of God's wrath.

On the other side of this coin, so to speak, John does not start the days of GT until late in chapter 14 or the start of chapter 15.

Perhaps you are not well verses in prewrath theory. The truth is, the rapture will be both prewrath AND pretrib.

I'm well versed in it and the editor of this book: https://redemption-press.com/shop/the-last-days-calendar/

I'm not seeing what you're seeing in John 14/15, where does it use the term "starting the days of the Great Tribulation" in those passages?

[iamlamad]

12 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

I'm well versed in it and the editor of this book: https://redemption-press.com/shop/the-last-days-calendar/

I'm not seeing what you're seeing in John 14/15, where does it use the term "starting the days of the Great Tribulation" in those passages?

Perhaps you don't know, or maybe you do: Van Kampan called Rosenthal and said, "I've found it!" He mistakenly thought he had found the "secret" to understanding the end times. He read in Matthew 24 and that the signs in the sun and moon would come AFTER the days of Great tribulation, but he also read in Joel 2 that the signs in the sun and moon would come Before the Day of the Lord.  This then, in his mind (Van Kampan) set up a time line that is now the timeline of all "Prewrathers."

The problem with this? It is fake, false, and not the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit. The truth is, these are TWO DIFFERENT signs: one comes as the sign of the Day of the Lord, as seen in Joel 2 and at the 6th seal, but the other comes 7 plus years later after the days of GT are over. This is seen in Matthew 24 and in Joel 3. They are different signs. The sign for the Day of the Lord has a blood red moon, which we see at eclipses - and the sun black as sackcloth (very black material) again speaking of how the sun appears during a total eclipse.  Note carefully this is a SEEN moon and SEEN sun. How would one know the moon was red unless they SAW it? 

On the other hand, after the days of GT,  It is speaking of total darkness. Neither the sun or moon can be seen. Thesee are two different signs at two different times for two different purposes.

By the way, congratulations on writing a book. I also have written one and an working on another.

I wrote: " John does not start the days of GT until late in chapter 14 or the start of chapter 15. "  I was referring to John in Revelation. Notice that the beheaded don't start showing up in Revelation until chapter 15. Note also the warning not to take the mark is in chapter 14 - showing us that the mark and image is not yet ready to be enforced at that time. God would not give the warning after the fact.

Prewrathers have two choices: change their belief system or rearrange Revelation to fit. We don't have that kind of authority! God wrote Revelation HIS WAY and it is right as written: John's chronology cannot be improved.

[iamlamad]

31 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

There are signs that accompany the Rapture. It is not a standalone event. For example, Paul says the Return and OUR GATHERING TO HIM will NOT occur before the antichrist sits in the Third Temple, declaring he is God, scattering the Jewish people (then making war against Jews and Christians, beheading them, the fifth seal of Revelation).

Many people THINK that is what Paul's meaning was and is, but I disagree. KJV did a very poor job of translating there. Did you notice that in verse 3b in Paul's argument, the man of sin IS (as in was) revealed? But in verses 6-8 we know he cannot be revealed until the One restraining is "taken out of the way." Therefore, logic forces us to realize, somewhere in verse 3a the restraining forces is (right then) taken out of the way.  The only possibility is in Paul's use of the word Apostasia. Somewhere hidden in the meaning of that word is the restraining force removed and taken out of the way, so the man of sin can be revealed.

Did you know that the first several translations into English used the word "departing?" "that day:" that is the day of the Lord, cannot come until something happens first: the departing. Since the theme of the passage is about the gathering (or departing of the church from earth) That is a very good translation. Paul's meaning then is clear: When someone sees the man of sin enter the temple and declare he is God, then they will KNOW that "the Day" has started and they are now IN IT.  But the man of sin cannot do that until something happens first: of course, the departing of the church. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit working through the church. But at the rapture, all the people the Holy Spirit can work through will be GONE: taken out of the way.  There will then be no one at that moment on the earth through whom the Holy Spirit can work. The restraining force then is "taken out of the way."

 

Sorry, but you are miles off (actually centuries off) in Revelation. You missed the intent of the Author in chapter's 4 & 5.  God showed John a throne room with Jesus ABSENT: not seen at the right hand of the Father. Then God showed Him the Holy Spirit there in the throne room, when we would have expected Him to be sent down. Then God showed John a search for one worthy to take the book - but that search ended in failure - showing us that at that moment in time, Jesus was still on earth and had not yet risen from the dead. Next, Jesus WAS found worthy - showing us that He had just risen from the dead. Then John saw Jesus suddenly appear in the throne room and send the Holy Spirit down: all this pointing to TIMING: WHEN did Jesus get the book into His hands? Of course as soon as He ascended: 32 AD. All this is the CONTEXT of the first seal, showing us that this seal is the CHURCH, sent out with the GOSPEL.

Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the gospel: he would be allowed to start wars, famines, use pestilences, and wild animals. John shows us that these three, the Red Horse and rider, the Black Horse and rider, and the Pale Horse and rider right together, leaving the White horse out of their mix.

Finally, seal five is for the CHURCH AGE. Any martyr of the 70th week would know they have only to wait out the rest of the 7 years. But take STephen for example: he would have had NO IDEA how long it would be until God would begin judgment. In fact, He would have to wait out the entire church age!  God knows the total number of church age martyrs - people put to death as they were - and when that number is finished, the church age ends.  But it is going to be the pretrib rapture that ends the church age. Paul is clear, the rapture will trigger the Day of the Lord. They are back to back events that cannot be separated. It will be rapture / wrath. WE get "salvation" as in being raptured, but THEY get sudden destruction - at the same moment of time.

When God raises the dead, that resurrection will cause a worldwide earthquake (see Matthew 27: "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened") which earthquake will be Paul's sudden destruction. There is only ONE possible place for Paul's rapture in Revelation, and that is just a moment before the 6th seal. It was no mistake then that John got to see the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter - as the great crowd, too large to number.

What most Prewrathers miss: the 70th week or "the trib'" does not start until the 30 minutes of silence at the 7th seal.  (The 70th week is marked by the 7's.)  They also miss the fact that the first seals are NOT IN the 70th week.

You will find, some day, that Revelation is in perfect Chronological order, outside of parentheses. However, that being said, from chapter 12 to chapter 16, there will be 5 parallel paths which are countdowns to the end of the week. It would be impossible to write of 5 parallel paths in any kind of Chronology. God however can do the impossible: He staggered the starts of these 5 countdowns to the end: they all don't start at the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint: the 42 months of trampling will begin perhaps days before the midpoint (7th trumpet) and the 1260 days of testifying will begin just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint. The 1260 days of fleeing will begin seconds after the midpoint, and the 42 months of authority will begin last. Each of these will be a countdown to the end of the week.

Sorry, but Paul tells us the rapture will come SUDDENLY, when people are thinking "peace and safety." there is going to be NO WARNING.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Neither. Mostly Floydian.

I see that you take a peptic regurgitory view of others ideas without regard to verisimilitude.

This is hillarious! Thanks for a good laugh! Stand by while I consult my dictionary!

Edited September 24, 2019 by iamlamad