Will God give seven days warning before the Rapture as He warned Noah ?

[iamlamad]

11 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

Pre-wrath agrees, the Spirit will restrain until the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is a blessed day for us, a fearful day for unbelievers, since the sun turns dark, the moon turns red and the bowls are poured out after the rapture. I also agree the rapture is just before/is the sixth seal. We are disagreeing as to when the sixth seal is.

I also agree that Paul tells us the rapture will come suddenly while unbelievers are thinking peace and safety, and Jesus tells us while when we are in prison, lifting up our heads for our redemption draws near.

I agree that Revelation is a "two telling" like Genesis in perfect chronological order. I already said all eschatons are in perfect chronological order.

Did you know Daniel's "1335th day" is Channukah, when the Temple gets cleansed?

I disagree: the spirit will restrain until the rapture takes the church out. We are only talking seconds here, but it is the rapture that takes the restrainer "out of the way."

The Day of the Lord is a blessed day for us, a fearful day for unbelievers  Again I disagree. The Day of the Lord is a DARK day where God will systematically destroy the earth and the sinners in the earth The DAY is for sinners, not saints. I think you are mixing up the rapture with the DAY. The rapture comes BEFORE the day as the trigger to start the Day. Always remember, WE get "salvation" as in being raptured, but THEY get "sudden destruction." The rapture comes one moment before the destruction. Those alive an in Christ may feel the ground begin to move just as they are caught up.

the sun turns dark, the moon turns red and the bowls are poured out after the rapture.  Sorry, but this is error gone to seed. It is NOTHING like what is written.

Yes, at the 6th seal the sun will turn dark: "black as sackcloth" as the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord. But you missed it: the rapture comes BEFORE the Day. WE (those in christ) get caught up, and THEN the Day begins with destruction; which will come suddenly."

Let's go over the rapture sequence as per Paul in 1 Thes. 4 & 5:

1. A SUDDENLY is coming: suddenly the dead in Christ will fly up out of their graves - NO WARNING. People will be thinking "peace and safety." When God pulls together the particles of those dead bodies, it is going to cause a great earthquake, just as seen in Matthew 27 when Jesus raised the elders of the Old Testament.

2. A moment after the dead in Christ fly up out of their graves, those alive and in Christ will be caught up and changed. But at the same moment, the ground will begin to shake with Paul's "sudden destruction." Paul tells us that this sudden destruction will be the start of His wrath: He makes no appointments with US, but does set appointments for all those left behind. Paul hints strongly that this start of God's wrath is the start of the Day of the Lord.

There is only ONE PLACE in Revelation where Paul's rapture will fit: that must be just before the start of the DAY and the start of His wrath - and that is a moment before the 6th seal events.  The rapture will take place, a world wide earthquake will hit, the sun will then turn dark, and the moon will appear blood red, and all will KNOW it is the start of the Day of the Lord.  This is seal 6 written in Rev. chapter 6.

Now, in comparison, where Jesus John write the bowls? What has to happen before the bowls are poured out?

1. The 7th seal must be opened so that the BOOK can be opened so that the trumpet judgments can begin. NO trumpet is going to sound before all 7 seals are opened.

2. The first 6 trumpet judgments hit: taking up the first half of the 70th week.

3. The 7th trumpet sounds the moment the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God: the abomination.

4. Those in Judea begin to flee  (12:6)

5. Michael goes after Satan and the wicked spirits in high places and casts them down; Satan included.

6. John sees the Beast rise up: the man of sin has turned Beast  - probably because he is possessed by Satan.  he goes after those from Judea that fled, but seeing they are protected by God, turns on the remains of the church: those that love Jesus.

7. The False Prophet shows up in Jerusalem. He caused an image to be built and a mark to be created. God sends a warning. (Rev. 14)

8. the beheaded begin to show up in heaven (Rev. 15). The days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of have begun.

9. God waits for some UNKNOWN amount of time while saints are being overcome and beheaded

10. God then pours out the first 6 vials of His wrath to SHORTEN those days of GT.

11. Some UNKNOWN time later, the 7th vial is poured out and the 70th week of Daniel ENDS.

Your theory then, is FAR from what John wrote.

We are disagreeing as to when the sixth seal is.  I leave it right where John put it: Just before the book with seven seals can be opened.  I wonder where you put it?

I agree that Revelation is a "two telling" like Genesis   Sorry, I could not disagree more: it is a ONE telling: straight through in Chronological order the events that are soon to come.  I think you have misplaced the BOOK with seven seals! This book is a MAJOR part of Revelation.  it is no wonder we disagree! It seems then that you DO rearrange.

I have not been convinced of what will happen in the 1335th day. It certainly could be that: but what scripture?

[iamlamad]

3 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

Actually, we completely agree again, but place the timing of the seals and bowls differently. I'm glad you aren't amillennial or etc. as well. Thank you.

I leave the seals and bowls exactly where John put them. You must rearrange them as I said at the beginning.

[iamlamad]

19 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

My point is that if you are still questioning eternal security, you are a babe in Christ. Assurance Is something we come to KNOW Intrinsically because of our relationship with him. Because we have learned HE is Faithful. When We learn he is Faithful, we learn to trust completely in His Word. His Word says...Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Cor. 5:17)

Question for you, Do you think when we receive Christ Jesus we immediately recognize our sonship in Christ Jesus, or is there some time involved in coming to that understanding? A serious question for you.

My point is that if you are still questioning eternal security, you are a babe in Christ.  My point is, this theory of yours is in error! I don't "question" OSAS: I know it is a lie from hell. You don't know this yet, but you will. Always remember, Heb. 6 is very much a part of His word. We get IN by an act of our will. We think, say, and act as if "I will" become a Christian! If we follow the line to maturity in Christ as shown in Heb. 6, any believer could (it is possible) say "I WON'T" and turn away from God. God is telling us here that IT IS POSSIBLE. Since Heb. 6 is truth, then OSAS is a lie. Don't get me wrong; it is VERY DIFFICULT to leave Christ, but it is possible. 

Some people get born again knowing NOTHING of the scriptures except what they learned to get born again. They probably don't even think of themselves as "sons," at the time of their conversion.

Where you miss it: you are convinced OSAS is truth, so everything you say comes from that perspective.  The truth is, there are people in hell right now that were once born again people.

[Billiards Ball]

4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I disagree: the spirit will restrain until the rapture takes the church out. We are only talking seconds here, but it is the rapture that takes the restrainer "out of the way."

The Day of the Lord is a blessed day for us, a fearful day for unbelievers  Again I disagree. The Day of the Lord is a DARK day where God will systematically destroy the earth and the sinners in the earth The DAY is for sinners, not saints. I think you are mixing up the rapture with the DAY. The rapture comes BEFORE the day as the trigger to start the Day. Always remember, WE get "salvation" as in being raptured, but THEY get "sudden destruction." The rapture comes one moment before the destruction. Those alive an in Christ may feel the ground begin to move just as they are caught up.

the sun turns dark, the moon turns red and the bowls are poured out after the rapture.  Sorry, but this is error gone to seed. It is NOTHING like what is written.

Yes, at the 6th seal the sun will turn dark: "black as sackcloth" as the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord. But you missed it: the rapture comes BEFORE the Day. WE (those in christ) get caught up, and THEN the Day begins with destruction; which will come suddenly."

Let's go over the rapture sequence as per Paul in 1 Thes. 4 & 5:

1. A SUDDENLY is coming: suddenly the dead in Christ will fly up out of their graves - NO WARNING. People will be thinking "peace and safety." When God pulls together the particles of those dead bodies, it is going to cause a great earthquake, just as seen in Matthew 27 when Jesus raised the elders of the Old Testament.

2. A moment after the dead in Christ fly up out of their graves, those alive and in Christ will be caught up and changed. But at the same moment, the ground will begin to shake with Paul's "sudden destruction." Paul tells us that this sudden destruction will be the start of His wrath: He makes no appointments with US, but does set appointments for all those left behind. Paul hints strongly that this start of God's wrath is the start of the Day of the Lord.

There is only ONE PLACE in Revelation where Paul's rapture will fit: that must be just before the start of the DAY and the start of His wrath - and that is a moment before the 6th seal events.  The rapture will take place, a world wide earthquake will hit, the sun will then turn dark, and the moon will appear blood red, and all will KNOW it is the start of the Day of the Lord.  This is seal 6 written in Rev. chapter 6.

Now, in comparison, where Jesus John write the bowls? What has to happen before the bowls are poured out?

1. The 7th seal must be opened so that the BOOK can be opened so that the trumpet judgments can begin. NO trumpet is going to sound before all 7 seals are opened.

2. The first 6 trumpet judgments hit: taking up the first half of the 70th week.

3. The 7th trumpet sounds the moment the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God: the abomination.

4. Those in Judea begin to flee  (12:6)

5. Michael goes after Satan and the wicked spirits in high places and casts them down; Satan included.

6. John sees the Beast rise up: the man of sin has turned Beast  - probably because he is possessed by Satan.  he goes after those from Judea that fled, but seeing they are protected by God, turns on the remains of the church: those that love Jesus.

7. The False Prophet shows up in Jerusalem. He caused an image to be built and a mark to be created. God sends a warning. (Rev. 14)

8. the beheaded begin to show up in heaven (Rev. 15). The days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of have begun.

9. God waits for some UNKNOWN amount of time while saints are being overcome and beheaded

10. God then pours out the first 6 vials of His wrath to SHORTEN those days of GT.

11. Some UNKNOWN time later, the 7th vial is poured out and the 70th week of Daniel ENDS.

Your theory then, is FAR from what John wrote.

We are disagreeing as to when the sixth seal is.  I leave it right where John put it: Just before the book with seven seals can be opened.  I wonder where you put it?

I agree that Revelation is a "two telling" like Genesis   Sorry, I could not disagree more: it is a ONE telling: straight through in Chronological order the events that are soon to come.  I think you have misplaced the BOOK with seven seals! This book is a MAJOR part of Revelation.  it is no wonder we disagree! It seems then that you DO rearrange.

I have not been convinced of what will happen in the 1335th day. It certainly could be that: but what scripture?

I still agree with you. The Rapture is a great day for us, a bad day for others, a "great and terrible day". The sun turns dark, the moon turns red, there is no silent invisible rapture, but trumpets sounded, a processional of the Lord, shouts calling us up... 

The signs of the sixth seal (moon and sun and earthquake) open the Rapture timing, then it's immediately a very bad day for those remaining. The Rapture first, then the Day.

The pre-wrath rapture allows for all including 1 Thessalonians to be utterly chronological. You allowed for five parentheticals in Revelation then tell me it's a one-telling, but disallow a prewrath parenthesis in Revelation? Hmmm....

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

 

Current prewrath thought and theories have the church going through the "trib" but not through God's wrath. That is silly because the bible shows us God's wrath begins at the opening salvo of "the trib" or the 70th week and continues on through the entire week.  Paul is clear, God will not make any appointments with His wrath for US, those in Christ. Meaning? we are out of here before His wrath. John is very clear that the day of wrath will begin at the 6th seal. Therefore the rapture MUST come before the 6th seal.

Current prewrath theory has the "trib" or the 70th week starting at the first seal. This is error. The real 70th week will begin at the 7th seal.  This truth determines whether the rapture will be pretrib or not. Since John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN before the 70th week begins, the truth is the rapture will be pretrib AND prewrath.

We will probably disagree.

"Current prewrath thought and theories have the church going through the "trib" but not through God's wrath. That is silly because the bible shows us God's wrath begins at the opening salvo of "the trib" or the 70th week and continues on through the entire week. "

The Bible shows no such thing. Nothing in the Bible says that the 70th week of Daniel 9 is End Times. All of Daniel's prophecies are to Israel; the Church was never revealed or mentioned to any OT prophet.

 

"Paul is clear, God will not make any appointments with His wrath for US, those in Christ. Meaning? we are out of here before His wrath. John is very clear that the day of wrath will begin at the 6th seal. Therefore the rapture MUST come before the 6th seal."

Not at all. The Wrath begins after the 6th Seal is opened, after the heavenly and earthly signs and cataclysms have come to pass, just as Jesus foretold in Matthew n243:29-31.

 

"Current prewrath theory has the "trib" or the 70th week starting at the first seal. This is error. The real 70th week will begin at the 7th seal.  This truth determines whether the rapture will be pretrib or not. Since John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN before the 70th week begins, the truth is the rapture will be pretrib AND prewrath."

All nonsense. "Current pre-wrath theory" is not singular, there are MANY different variations. Nothing of what John saw refers at all to the 70th week. This is pure unsubstantiated speculation on the part of pre-tribbers.

The truth is the rapture will be post-trib and pre-wrath. The wrath begins after the ascent of the Church

Edited September 24, 2019 by WilliamL

[iamlamad]

17 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

I still agree with you. The Rapture is a great day for us, a bad day for others, a "great and terrible day". The sun turns dark, the moon turns red, there is no silent invisible rapture, but trumpets sounded, a processional of the Lord, shouts calling us up... 

The signs of the sixth seal (moon and sun and earthquake) open the Rapture timing, then it's immediately a very bad day for those remaining. The Rapture first, then the Day.

The pre-wrath rapture allows for all including 1 Thessalonians to be utterly chronological. You allowed for five parentheticals in Revelation then tell me it's a one-telling, but disallow a prewrath parenthesis in Revelation? Hmmm....

Of course the rapture event will not be "silent!" The trumpet blast may be very loud indeed - but sinners might think it is thunder. It may well be invisible: a live and in-flesh person will suddenly turn into a spirit being (our resurrection body) and all someone may see is a sudden disappearance.  Being caught up again may be invisible. We have no scripture one way or the other. God may allow some to see it: for example, 144,000 Hebrews!

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What is the first thing John wrote? The 6th seal being opened and then an earthquake. I personally believe this earthquake to be Paul's sudden destruction. It cannot be proven with scripture. I think the rapture comes FIRST. Then the earthquake. According to Isaiah 2, the earthquake is also a sign of the Day of the Lord.  However:

Isaiah 13:9 

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

It would seem more in line with scripture that the rapture comes first, THEN the day of the Lord: as in the rapture being the trigger for the start of the DAY.  I cannot see the rapture as being IN this day of destruction. I think it must come first. Notice "the sun BECAME black....this is written as if the sun turning black will come AFTER the earthquake.

The signs of the sixth seal (moon and sun and earthquake) open the Rapture timing,  I must disagree.  the dead in Christ rising will CAUSE the earthquake. Paul does not tell us to look for an earthquake and then know the rapture will instantly follow. No, Paul tells us he SUDDEN event that comes first, with no warning, will be the dead in Christ rising.

I would like to see you outline the main events in REvelation in the order you think they will happen.

[iamlamad]

6 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

"Current prewrath thought and theories have the church going through the "trib" but not through God's wrath. That is silly because the bible shows us God's wrath begins at the opening salvo of "the trib" or the 70th week and continues on through the entire week. "

The Bible shows no such thing. Nothing in the Bible says that the 70th week of Daniel 9 is End Times. All of Daniel's prophecies are to Israel; the Church was never revealed or mentioned to any OT prophet.

 

"Paul is clear, God will not make any appointments with His wrath for US, those in Christ. Meaning? we are out of here before His wrath. John is very clear that the day of wrath will begin at the 6th seal. Therefore the rapture MUST come before the 6th seal."

Not at all. The Wrath begins after the 6th Seal is opened, after the heavenly and earthly signs and cataclysms have come to pass, just as Jesus foretold in Matthew n243:29-31.

 

"Current prewrath theory has the "trib" or the 70th week starting at the first seal. This is error. The real 70th week will begin at the 7th seal.  This truth determines whether the rapture will be pretrib or not. Since John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN before the 70th week begins, the truth is the rapture will be pretrib AND prewrath."

All nonsense. "Current pre-wrath theory" is not singular, there are MANY different variations. Nothing of what John saw refers at all to the 70th week. This is pure unsubstantiated speculation on the part of pre-tribbers.

The truth is the rapture will be post-trib and pre-wrath. The wrath begins after the ascent of the Church

Of course the bible shows this - but you just don't know it yet. Agreed: the church and Israel are two different entities: God will rapture the church and THEN turn His attention to Israel as in the 70th week. It is not for the church. It is for Daniel's people.

Not at all. The Wrath begins after the 6th Seal is opened, after the heavenly and earthly signs and cataclysms have come to pass, just as Jesus foretold in Matthew n243:29-31.  Sorry, you are mixing apples and oranges!  That is a no no is bible exegesis. The 6th seal events are in chapter 6. The days AFTER the days of GT will not come until chapter 15! Notice carefully all the events of chapters 8 through 15 will come BETWEEN the 6th seal and the time the days of GT have ended. You are forced to rearrange Revelation to fit your theory. May I suggest you throw that theory out and build one without any rearranging?

All nonsense.  No, all truth, but is not recognizes as truth because of your preconceptions. It is TRUTH: the first seal is the church with the gospel, not the Antichrist. That theory is 2000 years off.

Agreed: there are many prewrath theories. I go by the original, from Rosenthal and Van Kampan. Perhaps there are new theories because people discovered the original would not work?

Nothing of what John saw refers at all to the 70th week. This is pure unsubstantiated speculation on the part of pre-tribbers.  You can think that if you want, but you will be in error. OF COURSE Revelation is about the 70th week. John gave us the last half of the week in days, months and years, as proof. Just so you know, in Revelation the 70th week is marked by 7's: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th vial ends the week, and the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.

Posttrib? Sorry, error gone to seed. You will miss the marriage and supper that will be held IN HEAVEN before Jesus descends. Or do you rearrange that part of Revelation too? Did you really study Paul? He is the one man that received revealed knowledge of the rapture. If you study Paul, you will find HIS gathering will come just before wrath, and in Revelation, that would be just before the 7th seal - and if you knew, that will be just before the WEEK starts at the 7th seal.

The wrath begins after the ascent of the Church  His wrath as in the DAY of His wrath, begins before the week starts: so the entire week of 7 trumpets and 7 vials are all with His wrath. Doctrine MUST come from what is written, correctly understood. You are forced to move the 6th seal to the end. Sorry, but that won't work.

You and I will disagree on almost everything.

[WilliamL]

So much claimed knowledge, backed by not a single Scirpture.

I have backed what I say using boatloads of Scripture and history. Read it in my blog; especially the seven part series of articles on Daniel 9. The 70th week of Daniel has nothing to do with the End Times; it has to do with the now long-fulfilled end of the Jewish Age.

The series start here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

and concludes here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

 

[dhchristian]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

My point is that if you are still questioning eternal security, you are a babe in Christ.  My point is, this theory of yours is in error! I don't "question" OSAS: I know it is a lie from hell. You don't know this yet, but you will. Always remember, Heb. 6 is very much a part of His word. We get IN by an act of our will. We think, say, and act as if "I will" become a Christian! If we follow the line to maturity in Christ as shown in Heb. 6, any believer could (it is possible) say "I WON'T" and turn away from God. God is telling us here that IT IS POSSIBLE. Since Heb. 6 is truth, then OSAS is a lie. Don't get me wrong; it is VERY DIFFICULT to leave Christ, but it is possible. 

Some people get born again knowing NOTHING of the scriptures except what they learned to get born again. They probably don't even think of themselves as "sons," at the time of their conversion.

Where you miss it: you are convinced OSAS is truth, so everything you say comes from that perspective.  The truth is, there are people in hell right now that were once born again people.

Looks like I hit a nerve?

You are making a grave error equating OSAS and Eternal security and assurance. Eternal Security is a doctrine of the church. It is NOT a license to sin. 

People who think security is conditional are merely living in Doubt and partial unbelief. You Know my views on this, as this partial unbelief is the very heart of the Lukewarmness of the Laodicean church age. Doubt is good and healthy in our life until it overcomes and paralyzes our faith. Do You understand how this is the case? Doubt is our rational mind trying to rationalize the supernatural, You as a Pentecostal should understand this to its fullest. Faith is an irrational thing, a belief in the supernatural Hope of salvation that comes from Believing In Jesus and his finished work on the cross.

That being said, the passage you and most "conditional security" advocates use from Hebrews is ripped Way out of the context of the Epistle. The Passage opens "it is Imposssible",Not "it is possible".... Then Verse six adds the Conjunction "IF"  meaning the verses are a hypothetical in the bigger context of Hebrews, which deals with entering God's resting place, By Faith. Let me give you an example to simplify this. Here are the verses in Question. Notice they all form one sentence... 

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.  

Here is another sentence using this impossible/if structure.

It is impossible for a dog to meow as a cat, If it could meow, it could sneak up on cats and easier.

Do You see How you are reading this passage wrong grammatically now, at least?

Now Take the time to read verse 1-3 of Hebrews six.... what is the context of these verses? It is about Maturity in Christ Jesus. These verses, thus are proving not conditional security but Eternal security... For it is impossible for person that has the HOLY GHOST to fall away. In Fact, the Whole theme of Hebrews is about unbelief, and how we need to mature as believers into total faith in the promises of God and the finished Work of Christ on the cross. We must avoid being like Israel, who because of partial unbelief in the providence of God was forced to wander in the Wilderness for 40 years... They were still the people of God, and God still provided for them, but they failed to enter His Promises because of the lack of faith.

I Encourage you to read Hebrews this way, as this is the theme of the Epistle. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12;2)  

[iamlamad]

Just now, dhchristian said:

Looks like I hit a nerve?

You are making a grave error equating OSAS and Eternal security and assurance. Eternal Security is a doctrine of the church. It is NOT a license to sin. 

People who think security is conditional are merely living in Doubt and partial unbelief. You Know my views on this, as this partial unbelief is the very heart of the Lukewarmness of the Laodicean church age. Doubt is good and healthy in our life until it overcomes and paralyzes our faith. Do You understand how this is the case? Doubt is our rational mind trying to rationalize the supernatural, You as a Pentecostal should understand this to its fullest. Faith is an irrational thing, a belief in the supernatural Hope of salvation that comes from Believing In Jesus and his finished work on the cross.

That being said, the passage you and most "conditional security" advocates use from Hebrews is ripped Way out of the context of the Epistle. The Passage opens "it is Imposssible",Not "it is possible".... Then Verse six adds the Conjunction "IF"  meaning the verses are a hypothetical in the bigger context of Hebrews, which deals with entering God's resting place, By Faith. Let me give you an example to simplify this. Here are the verses in Question. Notice they all form one sentence... 

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.  

Here is another sentence using this impossible/if structure.

It is impossible for a dog to meow as a cat, If it could meow, it could sneak up on cats and easier.

Do You see How you are reading this passage wrong grammatically now, at least?

Now Take the time to read verse 1-3 of Hebrews six.... what is the context of these verses? It is about Maturity in Christ Jesus. These verses, thus are proving not conditional security but Eternal security... For it is impossible for person that has the HOLY GHOST to fall away. In Fact, the Whole theme of Hebrews is about unbelief, and how we need to mature as believers into total faith in the promises of God and the finished Work of Christ on the cross. We must avoid being like Israel, who because of partial unbelief in the providence of God was forced to wander in the Wilderness for 40 years... They were still the people of God, and God still provided for them, but they failed to enter His Promises because of the lack of faith.

I Encourage you to read Hebrews this way, as this is the theme of the Epistle. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12;2)  

Not at all, no nerve.

You are making a grave error equating OSAS and Eternal security and assurance.  I guess you are right, but just take your two words, "eternal security." Do you mean by those two words that once someone is saved, they can then never be lost?

It is impossible for a dog to meow as a cat, If it could meow, it could sneak up on cats and easier. Sorry, but you have missed the IF.

The if is not IF someone can fall away, the IF is, IF they fall away (they can if they choose to), they can never return to where they were. They are LOST.  Their end is to be burned.

For it is impossible for person that has the HOLY GHOST to fall away.   Sorry, that is reading through preconceived glasses.

In other words, if the Holy Spirit ever leaves a human being after they are born again, He is NOT coming back again.

You and I disagree again, as usual. We read scriptures differently.