Cain and Abel

[Guest]

I am reading Genesis. Chapter 4 verse verse 7. 

I just do not understand it. 

I feel God was unfair to Cain anyway. Please someone unpack this for me. Especially 'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who? 

As always i want the meaning and what lesson is it here for me and my attitude to God and to people?

I find the Old Testament hard. But i accept every word as truth and of great value. Always. 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Melinda12

[missmuffet]

Does this help?

Why did Cain kill Abel? It was premeditated murder, caused by anger, jealousy, and pride. John wrote, "Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous" (1 John 3:12). The evil in his heart was further revealed when the Lord asked Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?" "I don’t know," he replied. "Am I my brother’s keeper?" (Genesis 4:9). The Lord brought a curse on Cain, and he went out from His presence.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Cain-and-Abel.html

Edited September 24, 2019 by missmuffet

[Deborah_]

56 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

I am reading Genesis. Chapter 4 verse verse 7. 

I just do not understand it. 

I feel God was unfair to Cain anyway. Please someone unpack this for me. Especially 'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who? 

As always i want the meaning and what lesson is it here for me and my attitude to God and to people?

I find the Old Testament hard. But i accept every word as truth and of great value. Always. 

 

As already pointed out, I John 3:12 is very helpful inspired commentary.

Quote

'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who?

Try an alternative (slightly less literal) translation: "Sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it." (NIV)

Cain's anger will lead to murder, if not dealt with at this stage (Matthew 5:22). The path of sin leads inexorably downwards – unless we resist it (I Peter 2:11).

No matter how badly we feel we have been treated, no matter how much other people have provoked us (either in our imaginations or in fact), we always have a choice – to sin or not to sin. Our destiny is in our own hands: we can choose to yield, or to fight (Galatians 5:16). In order to break the power of sin, we must make a deliberate choice to submit to God (Romans 6:12-14).

The application is simple: "Do not be like Cain." (I John 3:12) 

[Who me]

4 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I feel God was unfair to Cain .

 

Why do you 'feel' God is being unfair?

The evidence is that Cain was unfair to God. Following Adams sin an animal was killed to provide a covering.

Animal sacrifice had been set up, yet Cain thought he could worship how he wanted.

 

Afterwards he deliberatly murdered his brother and then whined that his punishment was too great.

He wanted mercy, yet offered his brother none.

[Neighbor]

4 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I am reading Genesis. Chapter 4 verse verse 7. 

I just do not understand it. 

I feel God was unfair to Cain anyway. Please someone unpack this for me. Especially 'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who? 

As always i want the meaning and what lesson is it here for me and my attitude to God and to people?

I find the Old Testament hard. But i accept every word as truth and of great value. Always. 

 

Hi, Perhaps a sermon from Rev Charles Spurgeon might be an eye opener something to consider as  the text of Genesis is read.

The full sermon is at https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/the-blood-of-abel-and-the-blood-of-jesus#flipbook/

From that sermon comes this excerpt taken from within the middle of it:

..."Brethren, that was a more terrible experiment still which was tried at Calvary, when not the first man was slaughtered but the Son of God himself; he who was man but yet was more than man, God manifest in the flesh; it was a dread experiment when having dragged him before the judgment seat and falsely condemned him, having shouted, “ Away with him, away with him,” they actually dared to take the nails and fasten the Son of God to the accursed tree, to lift up his body between earth and heaven, and there to watch its griefs till they ended in his death, when they pierced his side, and forthwith flowed thereout blood and water. No doubt Pilate, who had washed his hands in water, thought that no mischief would come of it. The Scribes and Pharisees went their way, and said, “We have silenced the accusing voice. There will no more be heard in our streets the cry of him who said, ‘Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites.' We shall no longer be disturbed in our hypocrisy and formality by the presence of a pure and holy being, whose simple honesty shall be a stern rebuke to us. We have murdered him, we have put him to death without just reason, but there is an end of it. There will be no voice to that blood.” Little did they know that up to heaven the cry of Jerusalem had already gone, “His blood be on us, and on our children,” was registered in the tablets of justice, and ere long Jerusalem became the treasure house of woe and a den of misery, so that the like to her destruction hath not been, neither ever shall be, upon the face of the earth. Far more delightful is the fact that another and more melodious cry went up to heaven from the cross of Calvary. “Father, forgive them,” resounded from the wounds of Immanuel. The blood of Abel was not voiceless, and the blood of Jesus was not dumb; it cried so as to be heard amid the thrones of heaven, and blessed be God, it spake for us and not against us; it spake not worse things, as it might well have done, but better things than that of Abel. It did not demand fiercer vengeance than that which fell upon Cain, it did not ask that we might be driven vagabonds and fugitives upon the face of the earth, and to be at last banished from God into hell for ever, but it cried, “Father, forgive them,” and it prevailed, and the curse was taken away, and a blessing Came to the sons of men"....

[Neighbor]

A little more isolated from the fuller body  of the sermon text ..."

  I want you to stay a little over this thought to digest it. I wish I had the power to send it home; only the Holy Ghost, however, can do that. I want, however, just to dwell on it, that you may get into the soul of it. Observe that the blood of Abel spoke to God long before Cain spoke. Cain was deaf to the voice of his brother’s blood, but God heard it. Sinner, long before you hear the blood of Jesus, God hears it, and spares your guilty soul. Long before that blood comes into your soul to melt you to repentance, it pleads for you with God. It was not the voice of Cain that brought down vengeance, but the voice of Abel’s blood; and it is not the cry of the sinner seeking mercy that is the cause of mercy, it is the cry of that blood of Jesus. I know you will tell me you cannot pray; oh what a mercy it is that the blood can, and that when you cannot plead so as to prevail, the blood pleads. If you are to win mercy from God and get forgiveness, it will not be by the efficacy of your prayers and tears, but through the efficacy of that blood of God’s dear Son. Cain did not ask for vengeance, but it came unsought through the blood; and you, though you feel as if you hardly dare look for mercy, yet shall find it if you can trust the blood of Jesus which speaks for you. The blood does not need your voice to increase its power with God; he will hear your voice, but it is because he hears the blood of Jesus first of all. It is a mercy for us that the blood of Jesus Christ speaks for the guilty, even as the blood of Abel spoke against the guilty. Jesus’ blood pleads not for the innocent, if such there be, they need no plea from an atoning sacrifice. Jesus pleads for the rebellious that the Lord God may dwell among them; for you that have broken his laws, and despised his love, and fought against his power; the blood of Jesus pleads for such as you, for he came into the world to save sinners. “The Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”....

 

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I am reading Genesis. Chapter 4 verse verse 7. 

I just do not understand it. 

I feel God was unfair to Cain anyway. Please someone unpack this for me. Especially 'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who? 

As always i want the meaning and what lesson is it here for me and my attitude to God and to people?

I find the Old Testament hard. But i accept every word as truth and of great value. Always. 

 

Genesis 3:21 (KJV) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Hebrews 9:22 (KJV) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

In my opinion, the Lord provided the first sacrifice with the shedding of blood to make coats of skin for Adam & Eve. Adam, Eve, Able and Cain had to know full well what was acceptable to the Lord. Cain chose the work of his hands for a sin sacrifice. Without the shedding of blood there's no remissions of sin. It's a long read, but the following explains your questions pretty well if you're interested, this commentary is from ~ John Calvin

7. If thou does well . In these words God reproves Cain for having been unjustly angry, inasmuch as the blame of the whole evil lay with himself. For foolish indeed was his complaint and indignation at the rejection of sacrifices, the defects of which he had taken no care to amend. Thus all wicked men, after they have been long and vehemently enraged against God, are at length so convicted by the Divine judgment, that they vainly desire to transfer to others the cause of the evil. The Greek interpreters recede, in this place, far from the genuine meaning of Moses. Since, in that age, there were none of those marks or points which the Hebrews use instead of vowels, it was more easy, in consequence of the affinity of words to each other, to strike into an extraneous sense. I however, as any one, moderately versed in the Hebrew language, will easily judge of their error, I will not pause to refute it. 1 Yet even those who are skilled in the Hebrew tongue differ not a little among themselves, although only respecting a single word; for the Greeks change the whole sentence. Among those who agree concerning the context and the substance of the address, there is a difference respecting the word שאת(seait ,) which is truly in the imperative mood, but ought to be resolved into a noun substantive. Yet this is not the real difficulty; but, since the verb נשא (nasa , 2) signifies sometimes to exalt , sometimes to take away or remit, sometimes to offer , and sometimes to accept , interpreters very among themselves, as each adopts this or the other meaning. Some of the Hebrew Doctors refer it to the countenance of Cain, as if God promised that he would lift it up though now cast down with sorrow. Other of the Hebrews apply it to the remission of sins; as if it had been said, 'Do well, and thou shalt obtain pardon'. But because they imagine a satisfaction, which derogates from free pardon, they dissent widely from the meaning of Moses. A third exposition approaches more nearly to the truth, that exaltation is to be taken for honor, in this way, 'There is no need to envy thy brother's honor, because, if thou conductest thyself rightly, God will also raise thee to the same degree of honor; though he now, offended by thy sins, has condemned thee to ignominy.' But even this does not meet my approbation. Others refine more philosophically, and say, that Cain would find God propitious and would be assisted by his grace, if he should by faith bring purity of heart with his outward sacrifices. These I leave to enjoy their own opinion, but I fear they aim at what has little solidity. Jerome translates the word, 'Thou shalt receive;' understanding that God promises a reward to that pure and lawful worship which he requires. Having recited the opinions of others, let me now offer what appears to me more suitable. In the first place, the word שאת means the same thing as acceptance , and stands opposed to rejection . Secondly, since the discourse has respect to the matter in hand, 3 I explain the saying as referring to sacrifices, namely, that God will accept them when rightly offered. They who are skilled in the Hebrew language know that here is nothing forced, or remote from the genuine signification of the word. Now the very order of things leads us to the same point: namely, that God pronounces those sacrifices repudiated and rejected, as being of no value, which are offered improperly; but that the oblation will be accepted, as pleasant and of good odour, if it be pure and legitimate. We now perceive how unjustly Cain was angry that his sacrifices were not honored seeing that God was ready to receive them with outstretched hands, provided they ceased to be faulty. At the same time, however; what I before said must be recalled to memory, that the chief point of well-doing is, for pious persons, relying on Christ the Mediator, and on the gratuitous reconciliation procured by him, to endeavor to worship God sincerely and without dissimulation. Therefore, these two things are joined together by a mutual connection: that the faithful, as often as they enter into the presence of God, are commended by the grace of Christ alone, their sins being blotted out; and yet that they bring thither true purity of heart.

And if thou does not well . On the other hand, God pronounces a dreadful sentence against Cain, if he harden his mill in wickedness and indulge himself in his crime; for the address is very emphatical, because God not only repels his unjust complaint, but shows that Cain could have no greater adversary than that sin of his which he inwardly cherished. He so binds the impious man, by a few concise words, that he can find no refuge, as if he had said, 'Thy obstinacy shall not profit thee; for, though thou shouldst have nothing to do with me, thy sin shall give thee no rest, but shall drive thee on, pursue thee, and urge thee, and never suffer thee to escape.' Hence it follows, that he not only raged in vain and to no profit; but was held guilty by his own inward conviction, even though no one should accuse him; for the expression, 'Sin lieth at the door', relates to the interior judgement of the conscience, which presses upon the man convinced of his sin, and besieges him on every side. Although the impious may imagine that God slumbers in heaven, and may strive, as far as possible, to repel the fear of his judgment; yet sin will be perpetually drawing them back, though reluctant and fugitives, to that tribunal from which they endeavor to retire. The declarations even of heathens testify that they were not ignorant of this truth; for it is not to be doubted that, when they say, 'Conscience is like a thousand witnesses,' they compare it to a most cruel executioner. There is no torment more grievous or severe than that which is hence perceived; moreover, God himself extorts confessions of this kind. Juvenal says: —

"Heaven's high revenge on human crimes behold;
Though earthly verdicts may be bought and sold,
His judge the sinner in his bosom bears,
And conscience racks him with tormenting cares. 4

But the expression of Moses has peculiar energy. Sin is said to lie, but it is at the door; for the sinner is not immediately tormented with the fear of judgment; but, gathering around him whatever delights he is able, in order to deceive himself; he walks as in free space, and even revels as in pleasant meadows; when, however, he comes to the door, there he meets with sin, keeping constant guard; and then conscience, which before thought itself at liberty, is arrested, and receives, double punishment for the delay. 5

And unto thee shall be his desire . Nearly all commentators refer this to sin, and think that, by this admonition, those depraved hosts are restrained which solicit and impel the mind of man. Therefore, according to their view, the meaning will be of this kind, 'If sin rises against thee to subdue thee, why dost thou indulge it, and not rather labor to restrain and control it? For it is thy part to subdue and bring into obedience those affections in thy flesh which thou perceivest to be opposed to the will of God, and rebellious against him.' But I suppose that Moses means something entirely different. I omit to notice that to the Hebrew word for sin is affixed the mark of the feminine gender, but that here two masculine relative pronouns are used. Certainly Moses does not treat particularly of the sin itself which was committed, but of the guilt which is contracted from it, and of the consequent condemnation. How, then, do these words suit, 'Unto thee shall be his desire?' 6 There will, however be no need for long refutation when I shall produce the genuine meaning of the expression. It rather seems to be a reproof, by which God charges the impious man with ingratitude, because he held in contempt the honor of primogeniture. The greater are the divine benefits with which any one of us is adorned, the more does he betray his impiety unless he endeavors earnestly to serve the Author of grace to whom he is under obligation. When Abel was regarded as his brother's inferior, he was, nevertheless, a diligent worshipper of God. But the firstborn worshipped God negligently and perfunctorily, though he had, by the Divine kindness, arrived at so high a dignity; and, therefore, God enlarges upon his sin, because he had not at least imitated his brother, whom he ought to have surpassed as far in piety as he did in the degree of honor. Moreover, this form of speech is common among the Hebrews, that the desire of the inferior should be towards him to whose will he is subject; thus Moses speaks of the woman, (Ge 3:16,) that her desire should be to her husband. They, however, childishly trifle, who distort this passage to prove the freedom of the will; for if we grant that Cain was admonished of his duty in order that he might apply himself to the subjugation of sin, yet no inherent power of man is to be hence inferred; because it is certain that only by the grace of the Holy Spirit can the affections of the flesh be so mortified that they shall not prevail. Nor, truly, must we conclude, that as often as God commands anything we shall have strength to perform it, but rather we must hold fast the saying of Augustine, 'Give what thou commandest, and command what thou wilt.'

 

[Coliseum]

I think if you go back to these verses: Genesis 4:3-5 (NIV)

³  In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD.
⁴  But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
⁵  but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Notice that Cain only brought "some of the fruits of the soil," but Abel from some of the "firstborn of his flock." 

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews perhaps shares the difference between the offerings: "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain... God bearing witness in respect of his gifts" (Heb 11:4). By faith...Abel. Implied is that Cain did not offer his best; he gave out of his flesh.
 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Coliseum

[lovethelord]

10 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I am reading Genesis. Chapter 4 verse verse 7. 

I just do not understand it. 

I feel God was unfair to Cain anyway. Please someone unpack this for me. Especially 'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who? 

As always i want the meaning and what lesson is it here for me and my attitude to God and to people?

I find the Old Testament hard. But i accept every word as truth and of great value. Always. 

Hi Melinda12,

My explanation is short, but this is what I think.

In Genesis 4:7 - God was graciously and gently confronting Cain while anger was still simmering in his heart, and exhorted him to master it, to bring it completely under his control. The lesson is that Cain didn't listen to God and let evil take over and he murdered his brother.  I believe that this is an great example of unmanaged anger and how destructive it turned out to be.

[johnthebaptist]

11 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I am reading Genesis. Chapter 4 verse verse 7. 

I just do not understand it. 

I feel God was unfair to Cain anyway. Please someone unpack this for me. Especially 'and unto thee shall be his desire and thou shall rule over him'. Who? 

As always i want the meaning and what lesson is it here for me and my attitude to God and to people?

I find the Old Testament hard. But i accept every word as truth and of great value. Always. 

 

God is just saying that when we refrain from committing sin, life goes well. Therefore, we must learn to withstand the temptation to sin.