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Climate Change and Conservatism

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1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

God says no one will  know when.   So someone else is giving you that story.

Do you read Biblical Prophecy, ...you do know God wrote the Bible and  1/3 of the Bible  is prophecy, ...I'm afraid you are the one that "someone" has given you the story that we are NOT at the end of the "Times of the Gentiles and the Dispensation of Grace," ...Jesus told us the generation that sees the fig tree bud is the generation that will see His return for His Church, ...the fig tree is the national symbol of Israel throughout the Bible, ...and we saw Israel declared by the UN and become a nation in one day, again, after their diaspora of 2,000 years, ...on May 14, 1948! 

Jesus said no one will know the day or the hour of the Rapture of His Church, ...but we will know the season:

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28

If you just watch the news of the widespread global occurrences of these "things," in the world today in extremely large numbers like never before in the history of the world, ... and then add to that the Prophecies of Isiah, 17, Ezekiel 38 and Zechariah 12, that are being fulfilled right before our very eyes,

...those that have listened to and studied what Jesus has told us know it's the end of this planet as we know it today.

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Ok so let's break down a few of the discussions currently being had regarding this subject. I have taken the liberty of breaking this down into a few major subgroups.

1) Personal experience vs. scientific studies 

Ok so this has come up a number of times throughout this discussion (notably by ARGOSSY, Just Passing Thru and Alive). As I (and others) have mentioned, personal experience is often ineffective as a tool by which to judge climate change. For example, I live in the northern US which is currently about to experience/has already experienced some of the earliest snows and drops in temperature on record. Now some people would argue that this negates the idea of global warming. However, such an argument would have two flaws. Firstly, weather is not equivalent to climate. Second, individual experience does not equate to studies completed over the whole Earth examining global trends. This is not to mention claims of human eyes being able to detect "not a millimeter" of sea level change. Humans brains have a tendency to accept things that conform to a worldview (also known as confirmation bias). This is why peer-review and a second set of eyes in addition to data are integral to climate research and is why scientific studies should be considered significantly more reliable and valid than first hand accounts.

2) We should wait ten years/it isn't that bad/global warming is good

I would frame all of these at mitigation arguments. Alive has probably been the one to talk most about this approach. The problem is that the science indicates that waiting 10 years is unacceptable if we wish to continue to live in a world that resembles our current one. It also happens to be an argument that was used ten years ago and just results in the can getting kicked further and further down the road. The next two arguments admit that climate change is happening but may say it is not that bad. Those who argue that it is not that bad have simply not read the science on this. Study after study indicates that this level of CO2 is prevalent in mass extinction events and that our planet is losing biodiversity due to climate change. Some on this thread have even mentioned the argument that there is global greening. I dealt with this a bit on page four of our discussion here but the problem is that this only considered CO2 in isolation. While CO2 is used by plants to produce oxygen considering only CO2 in isolation ignores diminishing returns and the fact that plants need other nutrients to survive and are negatively impacted by climate change as a result. For more on this see the Tahiti study from page four which found plant biodiversity went down as a result of climate change.    

3) A global conspiracy of scientists/governments 

This argument assumes a lot and has no basis in evidence. Are there international agreements regarding climate change? Of course. These are voluntary agreements. For example, the US entered the Paris Climate Accords under Obama and then withdrew under Trump. Some countries simply did not enter the accords (although notably this was because they thought the treaty did not do enough to combat climate change). However, international agreements made by voluntary member nations do not constitute some wild one world government conspiracy. Anyone claiming that scientists all over the world are somehow in collaboration to deceive the public would not to provide evidence and a rationale as to why that is the case. The burden of proof lies on the conspiracy to prove the conspiracy exists.

4) Theological Objections - God Sets the Limits

This is the first theological objection presented. The argument stems from the scriptural concept that God has set boundaries by which the physical world must abide. Of course, Christians agree with this. However, I would object to any hyper-literalism regarding some of the passages presented. For example, JustPassingThru has talked multiple times about passages from the Proverbs and Job. Notably, he mentions Proverbs 8:29 in which it states "when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command." Now, I addressed this line earlier but I will do so here again. This is in the broader context of the writer praising God's creative power and control over creation. However, hyper-literalism is not an effective way of understanding this passage. If we were hyper-literal about this passage as JustPassingThru is indicating we would deny the fact that seas dry up and that man has impacted nature by creating harbors, damns, seawalls, etc. That is not to mention natural events like sea surges. Even JustPassingThru seems to understand this and slightly backpedals when he says this in his discussion with thomas t: 

7 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Kinda overlooked when God "set the limit" didn't ya, ...how do you know that the present coastline of North Frisia, Germany today was not the limit He set in the beginning?

Now the problem with this line of reasoning is that you could continue it ad infinitum. For example, using such a hyper-literalistic interpretation one could also say that the limit could be just below the tip of Mt. Everest. This hyper-literalism simply fails to grasp the passage in context and is simply a poor hermeneutical and theological argument. 

5) Theological Objections - Christ is Coming/The World Doesn't Matter 

Several people have brought this up notably JustPassingThru, Alive and ARGOSY. While all Christians concur that Christ will indeed return again in glory, Christ reminds us that not the angels in heaven nor us here on Earth know the day or the hour of His return. In the meanwhile, Christ encouraged us to love and care for the least among us and to be good stewards. By ignoring the dangers climate change poses to our fellow man and to God's creative work we do neither of these things. Arguing that the physical world does not matter at all was the root of many of the heresies of the Early Church and was one of the major things the Church sought to address.  This theological "objection" is a poor excuse for not taking care of God's creation and our fellow man.   

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7 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Do you read Biblical Prophecy

This one:

Matthew 24:36 But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

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10 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

...I'm afraid you are the one that "someone" has given you the story that we are NOT at the end of the "Times of the Gentiles and the Dispensation of Grace,"

I'm in my 70s.    I've been hearing all my life that we're at the "end times", just a few years away.  Never happens.  Jesus was right; no one will know the time until it happens.

 

 

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14 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

all of this fuss and bother

[...]

so what is all this fuss about

[...]

it's the Holy Spirit inside of me is laughing:

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

 

Hi JPT,

I'm no heathen.

fuss and bother? A vain thing? The Marshall Islands for instance, also in the Pacific, are experiencing severe droughts and they have a problem with fresh water supply. Click here for source (UN). It says as climate changes, weather becomes more extreme. But these Islands are small and they don't have enough fresh water to compensate for all sorts of droughts.

14 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

evolution, [...], gender confusion, socialism and globalism, ...rampant on the earth today

as you've noticed, this thread is about climate change, so could you stay on topic, please?

 

14 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

they lie in wait to deceive; 

climate change is no lie. It's reality.

 

14 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

let God control the climate

lame excuse. Man has no mandate to destroy.

 

14 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

announce the Gospel

When non-believers see how badly nature is treated by Christians, it's questionable if they will listen to these Christians in the first place, I think.

 

Thomas

 

 

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Until the world becomes serious about countries such as China. Climate change is a sad joke.

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