Jesus "the Magician"

[Coliseum]

@missmuffet and @BeauJangles and others who have misinterpreted the title.

This is one of the reasons why we place words in quotation marks. 

When quotation marks are put around a word in this way, they are called scare quotes, and often implies that the author doesn’t agree with the use of the term. Thank you @lftc.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Coliseum

[Coliseum]

Removed it, accidentally used twice.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Coliseum

[lftc]

13 hours ago, Deadworm said:

Ah, but a well respected Columbia University professor, Morten Smith, wrote a well -respected book entitled "Jesus the  Magician," in which he demonstrates how Jesus and Paul used techniques borrowed from contemporary Greco-Roman magic. Have you read his evidence or are you content with the disingenuous evangelical ploy of creating a weak straw man to avoid the hard work or honest and open inquiry?

[Don't worry  I ask this question not as a debunker, but as a devout evangelical who deplores the typical evangelical unwillingness to consider the evidence marshalled from intellectuals against the Christian faith.]

Hi Deadworm, (unusual screen name by the way, I suspect there is a story there).

The use of the straw man fallacy cuts a wide swath.  In one way of looking at it, your question above could be considered to be related to straw man:  You ask a question as if it is an either/or response.  Your question implies that the question by @Coliseum is somehow related to the work from the author you mention.  You even go so far as to refer to it as deceptive, using a word that many readers will not understand which is somewhat disingenuous of itself.

I do not say these things to say that your overall point may be invalid.  In fact, I also believe that people should be willing to address signficant issues that are pertinent to their belief systems.  All people.  But, alas, we lack the time and frankly the motivation to dicuss the endless string of criticisms.

Again, I am not assuming that you set out to attack.  But as you mentioned in your second post that the larger audience was of great importance, and I agree, it seems prudent to me to assert that you missed the point of the story in the original post.

My take on the original post is that the story illustrates that a person can stand up to a professor and point out the weakness of an argument, even when facing torture and punishment for the actions.  This story is entirely focused on events 80 years ago in eastern europe.

As I see it, the only application relevant to your issue with the "well respected Columbia University professor, Morten Smith" who "wrote a well -respected book entitled "Jesus the  Magician"" is that there is a similar title.  In your appeal to authority, you propose that Coliseum is using the story from Wurmbrand to refute the book by the "well respected Columbia" prof.  Unless the Columbia prof is using the same chemical reaction to prove his point, there is no connection.  At this point, only you would know that, as I have not read (and will not read) his book.   I will not read the book as I have no concern about what arguments are raised for or against Jesus in the hundreds of thousands of books that address the subject.  Just as the authors of those books have no concern about my perspective.

I fully respect your obvious intellect.  But I thought I should address the assumptions made in the post.  If you, personally, have concerns from having read his book and wish to discuss those, you should start a topic to discuss those. There may be others that may be interested.   But otherwise, the original post in this topic has nothing to do with the other book.

I hope this post is taken in the intended tone: no disrespect.  

[BeauJangles]

17 hours ago, Coliseum said:

Wurmbrand, Richard. Tortured for Christ

Now that you've mentioned this, I do recall reading his book in highschool. I was a new convert then, and taking in all that was available to me through some of the teachers who were well aware of my faith in Christ. Sorry to have misjudged the focus on the topic at hand. Some days/nights I come on here and am extremely sleep deprived among a myriad of other personal struggles that must be dealt with on a daily basis. It's a long story, so we'll skip the specifics. 

[Coliseum]

2 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Now that you've mentioned this, I do recall reading his book in highschool. I was a new convert then, and taking in all that was available to me through some of the teachers who were well aware of my faith in Christ. Sorry to have misjudged the focus on the topic at hand. Some days/nights I come on here and am extremely sleep deprived among a myriad of other personal struggles that must be dealt with on a daily basis. It's a long story, so we'll skip the specifics. 

Thank you. I too struggle with sleep deprivation. I know what it is like to achieve a remarkable hour of sleep at a time, if I am lucky. 

With regard to R. Wurmbrand, he is my hero of the faith. I have read eight of his books, mostly written from memory. I have communicated with his son, Michael, who was left on the streets as a boy, alone, while both his parents stood for Christ in prison. Sabina, his wife, was literally tossed into the freezing Danube River and reeled in by her torturers for sport. But when she returned, her smile still had the face of Jesus written all over it. Richard underwent far more extreme tortures, and was thrown into Room #4, used for those dying. He had TB, yet God preserved him without any medicine; he gave it to one more needy---who eventually succumbed. Of his 14 years in prison, four of those years were spent on the edge of death.

We do not know these things. My heart breaks as I pray for those imprisoned for their faith.

[lftc]

Just now, BeauJangles said:

Now that you've mentioned this, I do recall reading his book in highschool. I was a new convert then, and taking in all that was available to me through some of the teachers who were well aware of my faith in Christ. Sorry to have misjudged the focus on the topic at hand. Some days/nights I come on here and am extremely sleep deprived among a myriad of other personal struggles that must be dealt with on a daily basis. It's a long story, so we'll skip the specifics. 

Knowing what I do of your situation, I think about you regularly.  When I did not see posts from you for several days, I checked your account to see if you were just posting in other areas that I don't frequent.  You were, so I was relieved.

 I Hope and pray that Jesus makes his presence tangible in your life.

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Coliseum said:

@missmuffet and @BeauJangles and others who have misinterpreted the title.

This is one of the reasons why we place words in quotation marks. 

When quotation marks are put around a word in this way, they are called scare quotes, and often implies that the author doesn’t agree with the use of the term. Thank you @lftc.

 

I don't care how it was worded I will not embrace this post. We can not compromise our faith in God. 

[Coliseum]

42 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I don't care how it was worded I will not embrace this post. We can not compromise our faith in God. 

@missmuffet,

May the Lord richly bless you today.

[Alexalex]

4 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

I suffer this along with you, brother. 

Have you tried melatonin, worked great for me. I have found exercise to be the best thing for sleep though. Even just a bit of walking. Good luck!

[createdequal]

23 hours ago, Coliseum said:

Throughout Scripture we see men try to imitate Christ with magic, sorcery, black arts...but His children are all-too aware of the wiles of the Devil:

"A professor of communism demonstrated at a meeting that Jesus was nothing but a magician. The professor had before him a pitcher of water. He put a powder in it and it became red. “This is the whole miracle,” he explained. “Jesus had hidden in his sleeves a powder like this, and then pretended to have changed water into wine in a wonderful manner. But I can do even better than Jesus; I can change the wine into water again.” And he put another powder in the liquid. It became clear. Then another powder and it was red again. A Christian stood up and said, “You have amazed us, comrade professor, by what you are able to do. We would ask only one thing more of you—drink a bottle of your wine!” The professor said, “This I cannot do. The powder was a poison.” The Christian replied, “This is the whole difference between you and Jesus. He, with His wine, has given us joy for two thousand years, whereas you poison us with your wine.” The Christian went to prison. But news of the incident spread very far and strengthened many of the faith."

Wurmbrand, Richard. Tortured for Christ

If we only knew of the many who are gladly in prison---sometimes tortured for their faith. How beautiful are these saints.

wow, this is amazing bc at first I thought this was just a made-up story, until u said he went to prison.

I pray for people in other countries who are persecuted, probably need to do so every single day.