The Seven Heads of Daniel 7 and Rev. 17

[iamlamad]

I have always been puzzled by the experts' theories of the 5 fallen heads as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. This does not seem to fit Daniel 2 or Daniel 7. I am just thinking out loud and looking for help.

In Daniel 7 the first beast was a Lion with one head: perhaps to represent Babylon then and the land area today.

The second beast was a bear with one head: perhaps to represent Medo-Persia then and the land area today.

The third beast was a leopard with four heads: perhaps to represent Alexander's four Generals: Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolomy, Seleucus

The fourth beast was a fearsome beast with one head: to represent Ancient Rome and then perhaps the Antichrist Beast of Revelation.

When I count up these heads, I get seven heads. 

Rev. 17:³ So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

It would seem that the 7 heads in Revelation should match the 7 heads of Daniel. Perhaps the "heads" here and "Kings" of verse 10 of whom 5 have fallen, represent more the empire rather than a specific king. "Fallen" then may be telling us that the empire was conquered. 

When we look at Daniel 2, the great image, it has Babylon, Medo-Persia (two arms and chest), belly of Brass for the Grecian empire, legs of iron to represent Rome. This really does not fit the heads of chapter 7. The belly would have to have four heads. However, this image is what gets destroyed in the end. I would seem Egypt and Assyria are on end time empires. 

Any thoughts? 

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

I have always been puzzled by the experts' theories of the 5 fallen heads as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. This does not seem to fit Daniel 2 or Daniel 7. I am just thinking out loud and looking for help.

In Daniel 7 the first beast was a Lion with one head: perhaps to represent Babylon then and the land area today.

The second beast was a bear with one head: perhaps to represent Medo-Persia then and the land area today.

The third beast was a leopard with four heads: perhaps to represent Alexander's four Generals: Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolomy, Seleucus

The fourth beast was a fearsome beast with one head: to represent Ancient Rome and then perhaps the Antichrist Beast of Revelation.

When I count up these heads, I get seven heads. 

Rev. 17:³ So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

It would seem that the 7 heads in Revelation should match the 7 heads of Daniel. Perhaps the "heads" here and "Kings" of verse 10 of whom 5 have fallen, represent more the empire rather than a specific king. "Fallen" then may be telling us that the empire was conquered. 

When we look at Daniel 2, the great image, it has Babylon, Medo-Persia (two arms and chest), belly of Brass for the Grecian empire, legs of iron to represent Rome. This really does not fit the heads of chapter 7. The belly would have to have four heads. However, this image is what gets destroyed in the end. I would seem Egypt and Assyria are on end time empires. 

Any thoughts? 

Iamlamad,

I think a lot of the confusion comes from trying to lump visions together like this. I Know for Rev. 17 I come up with Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, MedoPersia, Greece as the five past empires from John's perspective. Rome is when John received the vision, and is therefore the sixth. The seventh is future from John, and the Eighth is of the seven, and IS NOT NOW meaning Rome is excluded and so is the seventh. That is how I read the passage in Revelation. I Believe the seventh is the kingdom of the Antichrist, and the eighth is the revived Assyrian empire. 

Daniels Statue vision shows Babylon as the head of Gold, Medopersia as the chest and arms of Silver, Greece was belly and thighs of Brass, Rome was his legs of iron, and the feet of iron mixed with clay is  mystery. Iron is associated with Weaponry and military might, Clay is representative of People made of Clay. So this kingdom will be large, and this is the cause of its weakness. 

Daniel 7 on the other hand describes four beasts coming out of the sea. The first a lion with wings of an Eagle. The second a Bear, the third a leopard with four wings of a foul and the fourth beast with the little horn. In My Opinion this vision is describing the 20th century Kingdoms. England is the lion, and the eagle Wings are the U.S.A. (clipped in 1776) The wings being plucked and standing like a man refers to the transfer of Power from England to the U.S.A. during WW1. the bear is communist Russia. Which came into being in 1917 and took control of the Balkan nations, the three ribs. The Leopard is Nazi Germany which rose to power in 1933. the Fourth beast being the antichrist Kingdom. This Antichrist Kingdom is the seventh head in the rev. 17 vision, the eight being a revived Assyrian Kingdom. This is why I say the Antichrist Kingdom is diverse from the Beast that rises out of the pit.

that is my take anyway. The three visions do have some parallels and are yet distinct, and we must analyze them distinctly and then see where they join together.

Here is a link with the beasts of Daniel 7 described Like I do. http://christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-56.html

I Did not read the entire link just the part that sums the first three kingdoms.

  

 

 

[breathoflife]

Hi, I have a different understanding than most folks I have tried to draw it straight out of Scripture.

No mater what five kings these are the chances of them being Gentiles maybe slim to say the least. When Daniel was given the prophecy it was quite simple it concerned Daniels people and city of Jerusalem. Last time I checked they were not Daniel's people. From their history yes that would work but the kingdom that is coming will not be like any of the prior kingdoms. We then need to see how those kingdoms were related. The only way was by flesh which would seem to keep with Daniel's people if that coming kingdom is Jewish. Now what are the chances of that? Turns out pretty good. Just in time for all of this we are taken away to a place where two shepherds are busy getting things ready for the Last Days. A Good Shepherd and an evil shepherd. One Shepherd Christ and the other shepherd anti-Christ. We are given a look behind the curtain to the unseen and we are shown two shepherds staves. One staff is marked Favor and the other is marked Union. We are told that the staff of Favor was a covenant between the Gentile world and God that they would never completely destroy Israel. That has been being taken down for some time now replaced by the works of their hands a Wall. The second Staff Union or Unity is what has kept Israel one nation but this staff is also going to be broken and apostate Israel will once again be a Northern Kingdom called Israel and a southern kingdom called Judah. This may not seem important until we recall this. The northern kingdom has 10 tribes that make it up and the number ten and the north are important in the End Times when we see the Harlot riding on a scarlet beast and there are seven heads but ten crowns. What happened to the other three crown owners? In Zec 11 we are told how the Lord allowed three of the shepherds from the northern kingdom to be plucked up and that left three unfilled crowns and seven heads just as John saw in the vision. The coming Jewish kingdom the Harlot of spiritual Babylon, apostate Israel, will be different from every Gentile nation who preceded her.

 

 

 

I am sorry I have company just pull up. Please take this for a read and let me know if it is making sense and if you would like to discuss more. Thanks 

[iamlamad]

32 minutes ago, breathoflife said:

Hi, I have a different understanding than most folks I have tried to draw it straight out of Scripture.

No mater what five kings these are the chances of them being Gentiles maybe slim to say the least. When Daniel was given the prophecy it was quite simple it concerned Daniels people and city of Jerusalem. Last time I checked they were not Daniel's people. From their history yes that would work but the kingdom that is coming will not be like any of the prior kingdoms. We then need to see how those kingdoms were related. The only way was by flesh which would seem to keep with Daniel's people if that coming kingdom is Jewish. Now what are the chances of that? Turns out pretty good. Just in time for all of this we are taken away to a place where two shepherds are busy getting things ready for the Last Days. A Good Shepherd and an evil shepherd. One Shepherd Christ and the other shepherd anti-Christ. We are given a look behind the curtain to the unseen and we are shown two shepherds staves. One staff is marked Favor and the other is marked Union. We are told that the staff of Favor was a covenant between the Gentile world and God that they would never completely destroy Israel. That has been being taken down for some time now replaced by the works of their hands a Wall. The second Staff Union or Unity is what has kept Israel one nation but this staff is also going to be broken and apostate Israel will once again be a Northern Kingdom called Israel and a southern kingdom called Judah. This may not seem important until we recall this. The northern kingdom has 10 tribes that make it up and the number ten and the north are important in the End Times when we see the Harlot riding on a scarlet beast and there are seven heads but ten crowns. What happened to the other three crown owners? In Zec 11 we are told how the Lord allowed three of the shepherds from the northern kingdom to be plucked up and that left three unfilled crowns and seven heads just as John saw in the vision. The coming Jewish kingdom the Harlot of spiritual Babylon, apostate Israel, will be different from every Gentile nation who preceded her.

 

I am sorry I have company just pull up. Please take this for a read and let me know if it is making sense and if you would like to discuss more. Thanks 

I am of the opinion that the Head, Nebuchadnezzar, and on down the image were Gentile nations that exerted power over Israel.

[breathoflife]

29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

These nations could be Gentile hations from israel’s History not enough information to determine that for me. But we are given the key, one of many keys, to her identity. The nice clear picture of Zec 11 shows a bunch of important clues. We are looking for a scarlet beast who has a harlot riding on her with seven heads, leaders, and ten crowns. This of course tells us there were 3 more heads for the empty crowns. If we look at Zec. 11 we find ten crowns but only 7 heads. We are told three of these shepherds we are told were plucked up. The fact they are termed shepherds points to their being Jewish. Where did they come from? We are told of two amazing things taking place at this time. First there is a foolish shepherds stall called Favoor. It was a covenant the Lord entered into with the Gentile nations so they would never be destroyed. The second staff is one called union or unity. It has kept the two kingdoms one United Kingdom. Now that bond is broken and Israel will once more be a divided kingdom. The southern kingdom has two tribes and the northern kingdom has 10 tribes of which we are told three shepherds are plucked up leaving ten crowns and 7 heads. Just right for your spiritual harlot girlfriend and we are told they hated the harlot. I believe the north will move against the southern kingdom destroying her. Then anti-christ will turn his attention to the faithful remnant. Anti-Christ will have his satanic army, fallen angels held just for this time. After moving to destroy the Elect remnant the Lord comes against the remnant and in order to save them the ‘Lord returns tothe Mount of Olives causing a valley, similar to the Red Sea and that Mount will spilt in two opening a valley of escape  for the remnant. Then the Lord as the Shekinah Glory of God destroys anti- Christ , false prophet and their fallen angel army  defeated by the Splendor of His coming. Anti- Christ, false prophet and the fallen angels are thrown into LOF. Satan is now chained in heaven and brought down to the Bottomless Pit is and he is in-prisoned there for a thousand years. Now there is no influence on men and for a thousand years men sin. So much for claiming “Satan made me do it.” Men will learn sin is not just what we do it is what we are. Satan is released a 1,000 years later and he deceives the Gentile nations who he leads against the faithful remnant who be ame a Royal nation of priests, thr Lord defeats these folks tossing Sartan in the 

LOF where anti-Christ and the false prophets have been for a 1,000 years. The dead Gentiles are a feast for the birds of the air. The GWTJ IS SET IN PLACE THE DEAD NOT WRITTEN IN THE word of Life are the sheep who judged will also be thrown in the LOF. Then the hell is sealed. The new heaven and new earth come down the dead not written in the Book of Life are judged the redeemed have their works judge. The Bride has come down and the one feast not fulfilled will now be filled and then the Wedding Supper of the Lamb takes place.

 

 

 

GWTJ 

[breathoflife]

Hi, mountains and their kings are used interchangeably in Scripture. In my way of understanding kingdoms or kings still works.  Let me know if there is any more interest. If so I will do the false prophet preparing the was for King/ Messiah. Thanks

[breathoflife]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Iamlamad,

I think a lot of the confusion comes from trying to lump visions together like this. I Know for Rev. 17 I come up with Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, MedoPersia, Greece as the five past empires from John's perspective. Rome is when John received the vision, and is therefore the sixth. The seventh is future from John, and the Eighth is of the seven, and IS NOT NOW meaning Rome is excluded and so is the seventh. That is how I read the passage in Revelation. I Believe the seventh is the kingdom of the Antichrist, and the eighth is the revived Assyrian empire. 

Daniels Statue vision shows Babylon as the head of Gold, Medopersia as the chest and arms of Silver, Greece was belly and thighs of Brass, Rome was his legs of iron, and the feet of iron mixed with clay is  mystery. Iron is associated with Weaponry and military might, Clay is representative of People made of Clay. So this kingdom will be large, and this is the cause of its weakness. 

Daniel 7 on the other hand describes four beasts coming out of the sea. The first a lion with wings of an Eagle. The second a Bear, the third a leopard with four wings of a foul and the fourth beast with the little horn. In My Opinion this vision is describing the 20th century Kingdoms. England is the lion, and the eagle Wings are the U.S.A. (clipped in 1776) The wings being plucked and standing like a man refers to the transfer of Power from England to the U.S.A. during WW1. the bear is communist Russia. Which came into being in 1917 and took control of the Balkan nations, the three ribs. The Leopard is Nazi Germany which rose to power in 1933. the Fourth beast being the antichrist Kingdom. This Antichrist Kingdom is the seventh head in the rev. 17 vision, the eight being a revived Assyrian Kingdom. This is why I say the Antichrist Kingdom is diverse from the Beast that rises out of the pit.

that is my take anyway. The three visions do have some parallels and are yet distinct, and we must analyze them distinctly and then see where they join together.

Here is a link with the beasts of Daniel 7 described Like I do. http://christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-56.html

I Did not read the entire link just the part that sums the first three kingdoms.

good stuff to be sharpening for each other. Please let me know if you are interested in anything else or to discuss anything. Thanks

  

 

 

 

[breathoflife]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I am of the opinion that the Head, Nebuchadnezzar, and on down the image were Gentile nations that exerted power over Israel.

Nebby, was the head of gold. Each kingdom that rose after him was more and more base. Some believe it is the different stages of sin. 

‘Gold looks like sin is appealing 

silver the sin becomes baser as it takes over life

until you get to miry section at which point you are hardcote addicted.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I have always been puzzled by the experts' theories of the 5 fallen heads as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. This does not seem to fit Daniel 2 or Daniel 7. I am just thinking out loud and looking for help.

In Daniel 7 the first beast was a Lion with one head: perhaps to represent Babylon then and the land area today.

The second beast was a bear with one head: perhaps to represent Medo-Persia then and the land area today.

The third beast was a leopard with four heads: perhaps to represent Alexander's four Generals: Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolomy, Seleucus

The fourth beast was a fearsome beast with one head: to represent Ancient Rome and then perhaps the Antichrist Beast of Revelation.

When I count up these heads, I get seven heads. 

Rev. 17:³ So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

It would seem that the 7 heads in Revelation should match the 7 heads of Daniel. Perhaps the "heads" here and "Kings" of verse 10 of whom 5 have fallen, represent more the empire rather than a specific king. "Fallen" then may be telling us that the empire was conquered. 

When we look at Daniel 2, the great image, it has Babylon, Medo-Persia (two arms and chest), belly of Brass for the Grecian empire, legs of iron to represent Rome. This really does not fit the heads of chapter 7. The belly would have to have four heads. However, this image is what gets destroyed in the end. I would seem Egypt and Assyria are on end time empires. 

Any thoughts? 

Hi iamlamad,

Glad you opened up this topic. Now a `head` in scripture represents a `leader.` In Dan. 7 there is only one beastly power mentioned with `four heads. ` This denotes that that kingdom/Federation started with 4 leaders. Looking at those beastly powers we see that they have emerged in recent history.

1. Lion with eagle`s wings - UK & USA

2. Bear - Soviet Russia.

3. Leopard - EU. (It was formally established by the Treaty of Paris & signed by four authorities - France, West Germany, Italy & Benelux. (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg.)

The 7 heads/leaders mentioned in Rev. 17 also denotes leaders.

`They are seven kings/leaders. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. ` (Rev. 17: 10)

The context there is in the first part of the trib, and these seven leaders are progressive. I believe some have already come & gone as leaders of the Global Government, (G 20 etc) 

Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I have always been puzzled by the experts' theories of the 5 fallen heads as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. This does not seem to fit Daniel 2 or Daniel 7. I am just thinking out loud and looking for help.

In Daniel 7 the first beast was a Lion with one head: perhaps to represent Babylon then and the land area today.

The second beast was a bear with one head: perhaps to represent Medo-Persia then and the land area today.

The third beast was a leopard with four heads: perhaps to represent Alexander's four Generals: Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolomy, Seleucus

The fourth beast was a fearsome beast with one head: to represent Ancient Rome and then perhaps the Antichrist Beast of Revelation.

When I count up these heads, I get seven heads. 

Rev. 17:³ So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

It would seem that the 7 heads in Revelation should match the 7 heads of Daniel. Perhaps the "heads" here and "Kings" of verse 10 of whom 5 have fallen, represent more the empire rather than a specific king. "Fallen" then may be telling us that the empire was conquered. 

When we look at Daniel 2, the great image, it has Babylon, Medo-Persia (two arms and chest), belly of Brass for the Grecian empire, legs of iron to represent Rome. This really does not fit the heads of chapter 7. The belly would have to have four heads. However, this image is what gets destroyed in the end. I would seem Egypt and Assyria are on end time empires. 

Any thoughts? 

My interpretation of the heads in Daniel are the same as yours.

My thoughts on Revelation 17:3 are not conclusive and just an opinion and guess so far: 

The woman [the harlot] riding the beast is the religious system leader, a church-state system where the church leader is in charge of the Antichrist for awhile. I take the seven heads as a location, the city that sits on seven hills, Rome. Horns in the Bible usually represent 'power' or nations or countries. I personally suspect these ten horns represent a ten nation confederacy, or ten global economic trading zones like the United Nations has established. I believe the United Nations is playing a major end time role shaping up this one world global system; it's very apparent with their stated goals and "Agenda's" they have implemented. 

Taken in context, there's little doubt in my mind the "woman" and harlot is the so called 'one true church', Roman Catholicism, and it has a vicar of Christ, a holy father, full of abominations, etc. The seven heads I'll assume are the seven leaders (kings) of those ten nations or economic zones? Three of those ten will be taken out and destroyed by the Antichrist for rebelling I assume.

Anyway, there are so many opinions on the interpretations, it's hard to confirm whom is right. One thing is for sure, each day that passes, scripture seems to be popping to life in the news.