Blood Bought 1953 Posted October 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: That just shows your circle. What reformer or church founder taught OSAS? I can show you the ones that didn't believe in OSAS, but none that did. My Church Founder was Jesus Christ , the Originator and the Eternal Proponent For OSAS !! “ All Those That Believe In Me ALREADY HAS Eternal Life and will NEVER come under Condemnation” I thank my God that I don’t have to contort myself into a pretzel to get around “ that” one..... There is a whole bunch more.......I invite all to chew on that one for awhile......good luck! 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted October 11, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Firm Foundation said: We all believe we are standing against false doctrine. That is why as long as these threads remain, both sides will argue. I don't think it's pride on either side. But you are the one stating that it should discontinue. I know how to not involve myself in threads that I think are not beneficial. I think the debate on eternal security is essential because the pure Gospel is at stake. I am also a witness that one can change their mind on the subject as I did so it is well worth it. It seems that most on your side find it grievous or a hassle more so than us. Why is that? We are only promoting trusting in Christ to the uttermost. We believe in leading Holy lives just as you do, we just believe our Lord has guaranteed us eternal life, and he is going to deliver on his promise. 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 hours ago, WordSword said: I was going to send you Henry's commentary concerning the "irrevocable gifts of God" (Rom 11:29) but it is intimidatingly supportive of OSAS, so I chose not to send it, but verses 22-32 can be viewed here: https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mhn/romans-11.html He teaches that Hebrews 10 is speaking of reprobate Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 hours ago, WordSword said: I would need specific verses, so we can share our opinions with one another (only in love, as I'm sure you agree) and we don't need to pursue this in this way if you prefer. Thanks. Beginning at verse 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, saved34 said: But you are the one stating that it should discontinue. I know how to not involve myself in threads that I think are not beneficial. I think the debate on eternal security is essential because the pure Gospel is at stake. I am also a witness that one can change their mind on the subject as I did so it is well worth it. It seems that most on your side find it grievous or a hassle more so than us. Why is that? We are only promoting trusting in Christ to the uttermost. We believe in leading Holy lives just as you do, we just believe our Lord has guaranteed us eternal life, and he is going to deliver on his promise. We are secure in our disbelief in OSAS, and it is wearisome when we go somewhere and have to deal with a dozen or more threads on the same subject with silly arguments like they have 400 verses backing them up to our 200 with nothing to back that up, and claiming Jesus originated OSAS with nothing to back that up. Then we get called prideful and other absurd things while going around in circles with the same arguments repeated at museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 The next time you drive around your town, take notice of all the denominational churches: Methodist, Wesleyan, Church of God, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Holiness, Lutheran, United Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, and know they all reject OSAS. That is why I repeat that when you look at the church as a whole, it is divided over this issue, and I would suggest the majority reject OSAS. As far as Christian radio goes, if you listen to BBN or something like that, it is all OSAS all the time, but if you listen to a station that sells air time to any local preacher. It isn't like that. It is a mix. I would also ask again, of the reformers, who taught OSAS as is taught today? I challenge anyone to look into this. See for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cletus said: tell me, where-bouts is the guarantee found in this passage: Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. sounds like a deal breaker to me. unless of course you choose to believe God is in the habit of not doing what He says. Which would make Him a liar. So by promoting that thing about guarantees, arent you kinda sorta doing that? mmm. I guess God also lied when He said he would not acquit the wicked. Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. wow. sounds like obedience is more important than many jack legged preachers proclaim. food for thought. Amazing....It’s as if Paul never existed ...... “ Forgiving others as God HAS FORGIVEN you” When Paul spoke, consider it that Jesus Himself is doing the talking.....Jesus made both of the Statements regarding forgiveness — we must forgive others to be forgiven and later He said we have already been forgiven — Jesus obviously contradicted Himself , it would seem.Except He didn’t. Jesus earliest statement regarding forgiveness was based on the Law.The LAW He was under during His Earthly ministry and the Law he constantly preached.Then something happened that changed everything— The Cross.That put us in this Age Of Grace where Jesus used Paul to explain that we are no under Law,but we are under Grace—- ALL sins forgiven for simply believing the Gospel in 1Cor15:1-4.....Regardless of whether you forgive others or not. It’s another one of those Christian Paradox thingies.I don’t HAVE to forgive anyone.....I FIND myself forgiving others,because of the ridiculous forgiveness God extended to me.You have to live it to understand it, I suppose.Why aren’t some of you living it is what I fail to understand.Is that the price one pays for being an adherent to JUDA-Anity instead of CHRISTIANITY? Just a little musing on my part.... Edited October 12, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,158 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 643 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: Beginning at verse 26. Apostasy is descriptive of one who shows a false profession by discontinuing the profession and never returning again to it. The phrase "falling away" has been much misinterpreted. Many entertain the thought that it intends the meaning of falling from salvation, but verse 26 is not in reference to salvation itself but to the Gospel of salvation (knowledge of the truth), e.g. “received (learned, but not accepted) the knowledge of the truth.” Thus, if we continue to live after sin, even after having the knowledge of the truth, etc. Only the knowledge was received, but not the truth. I think Henry's comment here designs the same intention: "The exhortations against apostasy and to perseverance, are urged by many strong reasons. The sin here mentioned is a total and final falling away, when men, with a full and fixed will and resolution, despise and reject Christ, the only Savior; despise and resist the Spirit, the only Sanctifier; and despise and renounce the gospel, the only way of salvation, and the words of eternal life." (just my opinion - blessings!) 26-31: https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mhn/hebrews-10.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Amazing....It’s as if Paul never existed ...... “ Forgiving others as God HAS FORGIVEN you” When Paul spoke, consider it that Jesus Himself is doing the talking.....Jesus made both of the Statements regarding forgiveness — we must forgive others to be forgiven and later He said we have already been forgiven — Jesus obviously contradicted Himself , it would seem.Except He didn’t. Jesus earliest statement regarding forgiveness was based on the Law.The LAW He was under during His Earthly ministry and the Law he constantly preached.Then something happened that changed everything— The Cross.That put us in this Age Of Grace where Jesus used Paul to explain that we are no under Law,but we are under Grace—- ALL sins forgiven for simply believing the Gospel in 1Cor15:1-4..... Then how do you explain that 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 says sinful people shall not inherit the kingdom of God, and makes no exceptions? You have to twist verses like that in knots. 1 John 3 says people who continue in sin don't know God, yet you claim scoundrels that never repent can go to heaven because they believe in Jesus. We can support our position with scripture, but you deny the clear meaning, like Tozer perverted the plain meaning of Hebrews 10:26-32. That is why we continue to go in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, WordSword said: Apostasy is descriptive of one who shows a false profession by discontinuing the profession and never returning again to it. The phrase "falling away" has been much misinterpreted. Many entertain the thought that it intends the meaning of falling from salvation, but verse 26 is not in reference to salvation itself but to the Gospel of salvation (knowledge of the truth), e.g. “received (learned, but not accepted) the knowledge of the truth.” Thus, if we continue to live after sin, even after having the knowledge of the truth, etc. Only the knowledge was received, but not the truth. I think Henry's comment here designs the same intention: "The exhortations against apostasy and to perseverance, are urged by many strong reasons. The sin here mentioned is a total and final falling away, when men, with a full and fixed will and resolution, despise and reject Christ, the only Savior; despise and resist the Spirit, the only Sanctifier; and despise and renounce the gospel, the only way of salvation, and the words of eternal life." (just my opinion - blessings!) 26-31: https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mhn/hebrews-10.html He is clearly talking about Christians that fell away. Still, this is all opinion. My point is that the Christian church is divided over OSAS, and based on all the denominational churches that reject it, more likely than not, OSAS is the minority view. The idea that OSAS is universally accepted except for a small number of hold outs is false, neither is it a place of maturity. None of the reformers believed it as it is taught today. As such, no matter how much you argue for it, you can never prove it because it is one interpretation verses another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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