saved34 Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: Then how do you explain that 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 says sinful people shall not inherit the kingdom of God, and makes no exceptions? You have to twist verses like that in knots. 1 John 3 says people who continue in sin don't know God, yet you claim scoundrels that never repent can go to heaven because they believe in Jesus. We can support our position with scripture, but you deny the clear meaning, like Tozer perverted the plain meaning of Hebrews 10:26-32. That is why we continue to go in circles. 1Co 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I don’t see the confusion. You are still arguing from a straw man position because we do not support a life of sin. We are washed by the Lord Jesus Christ. That is what we were at one time. Why you insist on placing that on us is beyond me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: He is clearly talking about Christians that fell away. Still, this is all opinion. Heb 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. Heb 10:39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Things that accompany salvation. The other group did not have this.( We) do not belong to the group that Apostasizes. We who? The Holy Spirit is making clear distinctions here. Professors who draw back with whatever they had ( which were not evidences that accompany salvation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, saved34 said: 1Co 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I don’t see the confusion. You are still arguing from a straw man position because we do not support a life of sin. We are washed by the Lord Jesus Christ. That is what we were at one time. Why you insist on placing that on us is beyond me. If you are still doing it, it is present, not past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, saved34 said: Heb 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. Heb 10:39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Things that accompany salvation. The other group did not have this.( We) do not belong to the group that Apostasizes. We who? The Holy Spirit is making clear distinctions here. Professors who draw back with whatever they had ( which were not evidences that accompany salvation. He is encouraging them to continue. He made it clear that those who return to willful sins are not under the original blood covering. Herein is why this debate will never end. I can explain away all of your scriptures to promote OSAS and you can explain away all of my scriptures opposing OSAS. We will both reconcile them to our position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Firm Foundation said: He is encouraging them to continue. He made it clear that those who return to willful sins are not under the original blood covering. Herein is why this debate will never end. I can explain away all of your scriptures to promote OSAS and you can explain away all of my scriptures opposing OSAS. We will both reconcile them to our position. Explain this one away please.......God speaking ... “ I will SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST all that come to me by Jesus Christ”. As Ruckman said, your example was taken out of context,it doesn’t hold up when you include the verses in front of it and the verse behind it . All of your examples will have this flaw or the other one where the verse is not talking about The Body Of Christ.Where is the flaw in my verse of choice? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 167 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,160 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: None of the reformers believed it as it is taught today. As such, no matter how much you argue for it, you can never prove it because it is one interpretation verses another. True, it's always a matter of one's understanding and opinion, such as that I see the Reformation supporting the concept: https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/reformation-study-bible/Rom.11.29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Explain this one away please.......God speaking ... “ I will SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST all that come to me by Jesus Christ”. As Ruckman said, your example was taken out of context,it doesn’t hold up when you include the verses in front of it and the verse behind it . All of your examples will have this flaw or the other one where the verse is not talking about The Body Of Christ.Where is the flaw in my verse of choice? It is a lone verse that you failed to identify the location, and Ruckman doesn't know what he is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, WordSword said: True, it's always a matter of one's understanding and opinion, such as that I see the Reformation supporting the concept: https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/reformation-study-bible/Rom.11.29 That is speaking of ministry gifts. We know none of them held to unconditional security. You know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cletus said: tell me, where-bouts is the guarantee found in this passage: Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. sounds like a deal breaker to me. unless of course you choose to believe God is in the habit of not doing what He says. Which would make Him a liar. So by promoting that thing about guarantees, arent you kinda sorta doing that? mmm. I guess God also lied when He said he would not acquit the wicked. Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. wow. sounds like obedience is more important than many jack legged preachers proclaim. food for thought. When our Lord spoke of forgiveness in Matthews, had he gone to the cross? Were men still sacrificing the blood of animals? Brother your usage of that passage is not being handled right as you are a dispensation behind in your interpretation. Now that our Lord gave himself for us, forgiveness is based upon him forgiving us for Christ sake. We are already forgiven so we should forgive others as well. Col 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. Eph 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Context is always key. Let me also add when reading any Old Testament book it must be read in light of Jesus Christ and what he has done to give us the New Testament in his own blood. A better Covenant with better promises. If not you are going to try and enforce things unlawfully. When reading the Gospels (especially Matthews) remember they are transitoryand must ultimately interpreted in light of our Lord fulfilling his mission of giving himself for our sins. Heb 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 2Co 3:10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 2Co 3:11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 2Co 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 2Co 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2Co 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 2Co 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Edited October 12, 2019 by saved34 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted October 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: It is a lone verse that you failed to identify the location, and Ruckman doesn't know what he is talking about. I guess the writer of Hebrews ( the Holy Spirit) didn’t know what he was talking about either, seeing as to how it was a “ lone verse”. Heaven forbid! Here’s your location...Christianity 101 and you guys are always shocked that such basic verses even exist.....Hebrews 7:25 Ruckman had more Bible knowledge , and more important- Understanding, in His little finger than 99.9% of the population have in their whole bodies. Now that you know the precious location of the verse, try to come up with an explanation that isn’t so lame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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