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25 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

My greatest issue with anyone on YouTube or TV that calls themselves men of God and only whets your appetite to sell a book or a DVD for "more exciting" information. Thurman doesn't do that.

   I asked because you probably know there are many phony healers. I met one online several yrs ago who I asked to pray for me. His answer was curious. He said he'd have to speak to me on the phone which I did. When he called, I kinda dominated the conversation and I later realized he didn't like that. He was even disappointed that I knew a little about faith healing. Well, nothing happened and I concluded this. This young man really thought he had the healing gift, he meant well. But he was looking for glory since he insisted we spoke. He wanted me to look up to him as a great man but I didn't.

  The other reason I asked was because sometimes (often in my life) God has used health issues to get me where He wants me. Although I believe we should always ask for healing. I hope Trace watches enough of his videos until he either feels excited that Thurman might be able to heal him, or he gets the opposite feeling.

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@TraceMalin,

I did not see this thread until today.  Makes me feel foolish for wishing you well when you posted a good-bye post, as I said things that would be nice for someone moving off to a new earthly adventure, but not for someone vacillating between suffering and suicide.

I see you were online yesterday, so I hope that you read this, for whatever it is worth.

Reading your story of your suffering brought a flood of tears to me.  I so wish I could make the suffering stop.  And I relate to the ever present thought of why go on when the future has guaranteed unending pain.  At least "guaranteed" as far as we can determine with human thinking.

You asked a serious, very serious, question.  You asked if suicide is a sin.  I read the article you linked and appreciated that the author covered many of the important related passages directly relating to suicide. 

As you probably know, many modern doctrinal positions are that it is a sin, and they arrive at it by extrapolation.  Simply: Murder is a sin, Murder is killing someone without assignment of guilt by a governing body, suicide is killing someone without assignment of guilt by a governing body, therefore suicide is muder, therefore suicide is sin.  There are exegetical problems with this (such as the governing body etc).

I personally suspect that it is probably a sin in many situations, but based on the New Covenant principle that whatever is not of Faith is sin.  (Faith is defined pretty well in the New Covenant).

However, the overriding principle of the New Covenant is that all sin was paid for at the Cross of the Christ. When one finally decides to quit arguing about sin and define it, it becomes abundantly clear that it is impossible to live life without sin.  People who say it is possible use isogetical tricks to refine the list of sins down to a select few - a hazardous game indeed if salvation depends on the correct answer.  Like your post about observing theological principles from diving lore, not defining sin perfectly is like cave diving without a guide line.  You are going to die. But only if the your sins are not forgiven.  But Jesus paid for all sins for all men (not my words - Paul).

Which means that we probably all die with sin for which we have not repented.   We are saved through faith that Jesus is Supreme in Authority (greek word often translated Lord).  (Allow me interject that I am not aligned with any particular system of theology - that whole debate is meaningless from my perspective)

The discussion of suicide is scary to write to a person daily agonizing in his internal search for a reason to endure more agony.  Except that I live there too.  The Apostle Paul was there too at least for some length of time. 2 Cor 1:8 We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself.

The Gospel is about the removal of sin through the Cross of the Christ so that we can know God.  Really know him, not just know about him.   And so that he can Know us.  "But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3But whoever loves God is known by God. a"

Throughout the scriptures there are stories of suffering.  The faith chapter itself has many, but, like you, I feel some of those would be a easy trade.

But I want to know God.  I want to love God.  I do love God, not with the giddy infatuation love of romance stories, but with something closer to the goal, 1 Cor 13 Love.  The love of the God to lay down his life so that he could know us.  Each day I struggle against despair and most days choose to decide that I will patiently endure, waiting for Jesus.

I find encouagement reading of people oppressed through the ages, reading of the amazing endurance.  When they were able to communicate their stories (remember the physical victor writes history), there can be found stories of experiencing God in exceedingly deep ways, but at such great cost.

My personal opinion is this may be what happened with Paul: great suffering (reading his list of sufferings is amazing), despairing of life, finding the deeper meaning in knowing God and then being able to say "for me to live is Christ, to die is gain".  He then went on to choose to go back to Jerusalem to try one more time to convince them to know God, even though God sent a prophet to tell him not to go.  And then lived 2 more years in horrible Roman prison until his beheading. 

I hesitate to be overly familiar with you, Trace.  But one thing I see is that you may be expereincing tremendous grief at the loss of all your astonishing physical prowess.  It is a tremendous loss and such a loss on top of the extreme unending physical suffering is an overwhelming avalanche of misery.

My hope is that my battle for faith in Jesus while suffering will lead one day to a true deep intimate relationship with God.  I get glimpses of it, but not the fullness.  I cannot say to you to just do what I do.  I am not the one across the finish line saying "Follow me", I am another like you, fighting on in swirling dark chaos of pain and difficulty, crying out "I see light over there".  Jesus.

That is the battle.

I have seen God heal people.  I pray this minute that God sends healing to you.  And your sister.

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On 10/21/2019 at 9:00 PM, Abdicate said:

Give him a call and see what he says. I'll tell you what he'll ask: are you Christian, do you go to church, and do you tithe at that church. If you say yes, then he'll start with sins in your life and he'll spend hours with you until your faith is built up to a point you can believe its possible. I know this because it's what he says he does time and time again. Watch some of his sermons and see for yourself. I don't agree with everything he says, but he does preach the plain word.

If the guy preaches “ tithing” in the current Age Of Grace, He is ignorant of God’s Word. He’s possibly ignorant of a lot more.....why single out tithing? Why not ask something vital like “ What do you think about Paul’s Gospel?”

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On 10/19/2019 at 9:09 PM, TraceMalin said:

This professor explains my view on hastening death. https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/people/related-articles/suicide-in-the-bible

My family praying for you Trace during this most difficult time in your life.
I read the article, did not think much of his ideas. I would think with his mindset, he would not likely have much problem crossing over towards the idea of "euthanasia" either, which in God's eyes, is cold blooded murder.
A portion from the article:

"Although the commandment against killing (Exod 20:13) is commonly believed to include killing oneself..."

I've seen and heard all sides of the suicide issue, the above is what I believe. Honestly, repent of these thoughts, their not of God and please consider some of the good advice offered by others.

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On 10/20/2019 at 5:22 AM, JTC said:

...I didn't want to accept that I'll most likely never own a car again. Oh man, as far as I was concerned I would have rather died. Big deal right, but I can't walk without the walker neither. I even asked my doc for the drugs they give terminally ill patients so I could end me. And I was serious. My doc wouldn't do it. Well, a few more years went by and I accepted no car, not being able to walk normal; all I have left is the Internet and my life online. I guess this is life, unless all of you are bots. LOL It has taken 7 yrs but I no longer will kill myself. I'll wait for God to call me, my life belongs to Him anyway. It always did.

Thank God for that Doctor!
And praise God you no longer wish to kill yourself, and are waiting on God in His time to call you home!
Yes, absolutely, our lives in Christ belong to Him.

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Life is a gift from God, and God’s Law given to the Israelites imposed serious penalties if a life was taken accidentally. (Exodus 21:29; Numbers 35:22-25) God’s people were thereby encouraged to be safety conscious. (Deuteronomy 22:8) Christians today likewise have an obligation to show respect for life.  Engaging in sports that involve high levels of risk, even if one takes the many precautions involved with best practices, can "put God to the test," which is not where a Christian wants to be (Matthew 4:5-7).  This is a cautionary tale for all.  

Best wishes Trace as you work your way through these challenges of life.
 

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