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C. S. Lewis, a writer of pagan myths, magic and witchcraft?

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2 hours ago, nobleseed said:

most sorcery is a trick or the power of demons.

Sorry for going off-topic, but since it took a turn here for the record, all sorcery is from the power of demons. 

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8 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I bet it’s been 30 years since I purchased and read that book, but I never throw away books and so it has to be around here somewhere.......I can remember reading it as if it were yesterday.....Lewis opined about many different aspects of Christianity in this book......the book was separated by subject. He would have a chapter about “Pride” for instance,and then the next chapter could be titled “ Faith”... The man  was thoughtful , insightful, inspiring and for the longest time I considered him to be “ inspired”.As time has passed , I still respect much of his writings— “The Screwtape Letters” were the Work Of an extremely gifted writer.

Having said all of that,I will maintain until the day that I die that the very idea of Purgatory is to spit on the Blood of our Savior.....to even “ think” that we have to piously “ dust ourselves off” because the Blood  just couldn’t get the job done makes me livid.....I bet God hates it more than even I do.Diminishing what His Son accomplished at the Cross is something He is going to take VERY seriously .Am I the only one out here that sees the utter Blasphemy of the thinking behind the belief in this damnable Doctrine?

Having gotten that off my chest, I think I will go up to the attic and see if I can find “ Mere Christianity”..... perhaps tear out the page on Purgatory and put it where it belongs — at the bottom of the bird cage! Lol....

 

 

I found it!    Haha .....did not even take 5 minutes.....The problem stems from the sad fact that “ yours truly” is half-senile.....The book is NOT “ Mere Christianity”—- The proper book to read would be “Mere Christianity”. ( pagec222) The excerpt a few posts back has it all.....it was just three paragraphs long.Thats plenty enough words to reveal that your understanding of true  Christianity is so deeply flawed, that it is non-existent.The Blood Of Jesus was a “ one time sacrifice” that paid for every sin that was ever committed or will be committed.If ALL of a persons sins are not covered,you are not going to stand beforeGod making requests to be “ purified”.Your tiniest of sins is what is going to separate you from God, and if you think you have to add to to the Blood to remove the stains of Sin, because Jesus failed to complete the Task His Father gave , and God lied  when He said He would “ save to the uttermost”, you are going to have a very bad day.If you do not stand before a Holy God as being totally Righteous and Perfect because of your Faith in“ Nothing But The Blood”—— you ain’t gonna be there “ making deals” to get the job done . When Jesus said “ It is Finished”, He meant it.A belief in purgatory makes Jesus a liar.You adherents , and all of those that think it is an easily excusable little bump , just a little error on the part of somebody that really “meant well” and was showing how “ humble” he was by his willingness to be punished for sins that the Blood “ forgot”. “ Error” is one thing, but Blasphemy against the Shed Blood Of our Savior is another . I firmly believe that the whole concept of purgatory is blasphemy , and I believe it is sending souls to Hell.Am I the only one here that sees the seriousness of this Satanic Fairy Tale?

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I probably should not respond to this because I am in a deep low.  If you choose to read this, keep it in the right context, a person that is pressed far beyond what he can endure.  Probably just the ravings of a madman.

If I were to base my belief on my experience, I believe in purgatory because I am in it now.

If any of these people attacking a man that cannot defend himself (Lewis) would bother to try to understand what he wrote it might help.

As with any topic that the human mind cares to ponder, there are endless possibilities of ways to understand things.  Which are true?  That is the wrestling match, no, that is the blood bath of human interaction.

Without jumping out to research all the notions of purgatory I will go from my memory, so I am sure that I am missing things.  But it is enough for me to support my opinion so that is enough - for me.

Purgatory is not mentioned in scripture, as are many other things that people hold as vitally important doctrines.  It may be implied in some places, if you want to read things with a mindset looking for it. As someone else noted, the Lazarus story has some strange statements about the after-life that don't fit with standard evangelical teachings.  Also Paul uses the custom of praying for the dead to make a point.  Again, evangelicals have to handle that by saying it is like the Mars Hill thing, he is just using a faulty belief to make a point. 

Do those references force a belief in purgatory - no.  But they do leave the door open for some other concepts.  I only say this to try to bring understanding to how those who believe in purgatory may think.

More signficant is the reason for purgatory.  Again, just based on my memory, the views are widely varied, ranging from a place where a person goes to finish paying for sins to a place where the effects of sin are scrubbed off.

To a person who truly believes in the death of Jesus, once for all, paying for sins, neither idea appears appropriate at all. Although the first is much more difficult. Hence @Blood Bought 1953 categorical classification of C.S. Lewis as a non-christian.

Lewis actually held to the second idea, which he carefully explained in Letters to Malcolm, as I have been shown by researching it.  So he was not saying he was saved by purgatory, he was saying that he felt guilty about his life and wanted to be pure when coming into God's presence (my summary not his words).  Remember when Isaiah came into the presence of God?

Allow me to be so bold as to bring other evangelical beliefs into the picture:

In the scriptures we have Jesus death paying for sins.  We also have the various statements of damnation for lists of sinners  in the letters of Paul, Peter, John, etc.  There are two Primary ways of dealing with this difficult issue (Calvin vs Arminius for protestants, OSAS vs not -for all christians).  It seems to me that they only differ on a count of sin.  The OSNAS group says every sin un-saves you and requires saying sorry to correct.  The OSAS group says to say sorry after sin, but you get a certain, unknown number of sins before you are declared to have never been saved to start with (habitual sin).  And most groups extrapolate significantly on the formula for being saved, giving room to state that one missed on the first attempt at being saved.

I don't bring this up to start a debate (please start a thread to do that if you feel the need).  I bring it up to emphasize that throughout most of christianity there is a dominant theme of perception of guilt for sin.  As there should be, God said the wages of sin is death.  The theme, in practice, overshadows all other themes.

Allow me to point out that the long term branches of christianity, like Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, have been fighting over these issues from the 1st century on.  The Protestants started their fights (including killing) on these issues immediately on forming 500 years ago.

So we have this core belief that it is possible to NOT BE SAVED in most of Christianity.  Even Blood Bought, a staunch supporter of OSAS is saying that C.S. Lewis is going to hell (or went to hell). Lewis is a person who easily meets the simple definition of being saved.

With eternity at risk, what if your views about things are wrong?  What if as a OSAS person, your view about your deep true belief are not right?  What if you deep inside aren't quite sure all the time that Jesus paid for your sins?  Or occasionally you are not fully believing that he is God?  Or for OSAS or OSNAS, what if you don't have the list of sins right?  What if your pastor was wrong when he said you can ignore the law of moses?  What if when Paul said a woman is not allowed to speak in church and you allow it, you have sinned by breaking one of the "new laws"?  

If your belief system has a fault, you could be going to hell. 

Being a thinking man (clearly), Lewis would have pondered these things.  As have many people through the ages.  In one way of viewing it, the Catholics have been mostly OSNAS for a long time.  They realized what I just said about "What if" would naturally occur to a thinking man.  When you face the uncertainty that you have confessed every sin, you realize, eventually, that it is impossible.  Actually you become certain that you will die with unconfessed sin.  Which immediately leads to giving up as you cannot avoid going to hell.  And it is impossible to reconcile with the mercy that Jesus claims to bring.  This is true for the OSAS as well with the habitual sin issue when you realize that the definition of what is sin can make everyone guilty of habitual sin.

So how can God bring his mercy to sinners when the probability of dying with unconfessed sin is very high?  Purgatory comes to the rescue.

I think it is clearly inferrable that Lewis felt guilt for his sin.  He welcomed the thought of having God clean the effects of sin off of him.  He very clearly believed that Jesus paid for the sins, so that he did not have to go to hell, But he also felt that he could not possibly be in God's presence with the lingering effects of sin.  Sounds like guilt to me.

So I don't find anything to condemn Lewis to hell in his purgatory views.

I think there are other ways to look at these issues and reconcile the scriptures.  But that is a topic for another day, maybe.

I don't think purgatory is waiting.  For me it is here now, although it could get worse.  And if I need further refinement after death it is out of my hands.  Most things are beyond my ability to control.  All I can do is choose to trust.

God have mercy.

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3 hours ago, nobleseed said:

most sorcery is a trick or the power of demons.  do u really think a psychic knows anything about the future, or a witch can alter things by doing spells, but people think they can and that's where the danger comes in.  same as the magicians in Moses time, they were just tricksters and illusionists.  that  is what the context of them in the bible.  the fact they could not keep up with moses proves it.

all sorcery is the power of demons....     yes some pshchics are told by demons the likelihood of things that can happen for the demonic would has people looking and watching everything going on....     can they see the future like God.....   I won't say no for I'm not positive, but they know each of us and the people around us and the likelihood of how people react to things....   they know our secrets for they spy on us constantly.     They were not tricksters or illusionists or the Bible would tell us so....   and that is not the context of My Bible...

So I guess we really do read different.....    maybe I'm kind of biased for I walked with them for about ten years and know first hand what they can and can't do....

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, lftc said:

I probably should not respond to this because I am in a deep low.  If you choose to read this, keep it in the right context, a person that is pressed far beyond what he can endure.  Probably just the ravings of a madman.

Having read what you wrote I'm not under the impression that you're a madman. I don't think you're "incorrect," either. So much of that going around lately. 

2 hours ago, lftc said:

If I were to base my belief on my experience, I believe in purgatory because I am in it now.

Yes. I made my bed in hell for decades. When God saved my life --- he lifted me up out of hell --- I spent two years healing, resting, and living in purgatory. One by one, I recognized sins and cast them out. Of course, all this happened here on Earth...

2 hours ago, lftc said:

More signficant is the reason for purgatory.  Again, just based on my memory, the views are widely varied, ranging from a place where a person goes to finish paying for sins to a place where the effects of sin are scrubbed off.

As I wrote above, I spent two years living in purgatory --- an "in-between place" ---  but some may foster the mistaken belief that I rested, healed, and slept there in solitude. Not at all! I was blessed by the Lord.

God was there with me just as he was when I made my bed in hell. The scriptures support what I write here. :thumbsup:

2 hours ago, lftc said:

So I don't find anything to condemn Lewis to hell in his purgatory views.

Nor do I. We should be careful about how we measure our judgment because as Jesus Christ warned us, we'll be subject to the same measure. Of course this is supported by the scriptures. I honestly can't find one reason to condemn him. What did Lewis actually do wrong? Only the Lord knows.

Edited by DustyRoad
missing letters ... always something
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2 hours ago, lftc said:

I think there are other ways to look at these issues and reconcile the scriptures.

Well said and erudite. Sometimes, when we feel the worst, God can use us for His best. Good post!!

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Purgatory, if we wish to name such a place, is not a spiritual realm nor destination after death. Simply put, purgatory is a place in this life where God works intensely upon us: teaching us about sin by opening our eyes to it. I spent two years resting, healing, and being taught by God in what I've come to think of as purgatory. Yes, purgatory --- just like hell --- can exist right here on Earth. There's no need to wait for death in order to be tormented, yes? Many of us know the truth of that for ourselves. 

In any event, Narnia was a yarn (fiction) and C.S. Lewis was an author of books. I'm a writer myself and have spun more than one tale set in fantastic locales. The Lord has not condemned me for this, so why should I condemn C.S. Lewis for doing that? 

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38 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

Purgatory, if we wish to name such a place, is not a spiritual realm nor destination after death. Simply put, purgatory is a place in this life where God works intensely upon us: teaching us about sin by opening our eyes to it. I spent two years resting, healing, and being taught by God in what I've come to think of as purgatory. Yes, purgatory --- just like hell --- can exist right here on Earth. There's no need to wait for death in order to be tormented, yes? Many of us know the truth of that for ourselves. 

In any event, Narnia was a yarn (fiction) and C.S. Lewis was an author of books. I'm a writer myself and have spun more than one tale set in fantastic locales. The Lord has not condemned me for this, so why should I condemn C.S. Lewis for doing that? 

There is no such place as purgatory. The Bible tells us there is heaven for those who are believers and hell for those who are not believers. The Bible does not say there is any such place as purgatory. 

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Since it may appear that I defended C.S. Lewis at the expense of @Blood Bought 1953, let me express what I think of Blood Bought:  I see a man that was so aware of his need for a savior, that when he found Jesus, or Jesus found him, he rejoiced to see the Great Hope that Jesus brings:  salvation from sin.  Nothing needed but to accept the precious gift by believing.  This wonderful gift is so important that he will not stand the slightest hint that the Gift is incomplete.

I agree.

I am glad to be in the family with this fine man.  Even if he doesn't like C.S. Lewis. 

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I like Lewis's non fiction work, amazing stuff. But, I take issue with his fiction. And even then what I take issue with is what he labels them as.

The Chronicles of Narnia we're designed to be an allegory, but he did a horrible job of it! The characters don't match the biblical matchups at all. From an entertainment standpoint they are entertaining, but from an allegorical standpoint they're absolutely horrible.

Now for Tolkien...he never made the claim his novels were allegorical. In fact he went out of his way to state that his books were purely for entertainment...and they were in my opinion not only far better written, but contained far closer allegories, without even trying.

Fact is... both men we're solid Christian's from what I can gather...and also human which means that they aren't perfect. I enjoy their fiction, I'm an avid LOTR fan. If your not that's fine to.

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