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calledoutones

apostasia

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I have always believed in a pre-trib rapture. I think that Jesus spoke of it in mathew 25:10. Jesus said also to pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things coming on this world and to stand before the Son of man. Also it clearly says in mathew 24 that two will be in the field, one taken and the other left, two will be grinding at the mill and one taken and the other left. My question is this, are they grinding in complete darkness? Are two working in the field without the mark of the beast? If there is no rapture before the tribulation, and we know that after the tribulation the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light, the stars of heaven will be falling, but wait these two are grinding at the mill in complete darkness. weird! and two are in the field obviously working it, and one is taken! weird! Does he have the mark? because no one can buy or sell except he has the mark, I doubt if any at that time will be able to own land or work without it. Plus How is our Lord coming as a thief at the end of the tribulation? It says the will hide themselves in the rocks and say fall on us, hide us from the face of Him who sits upon the throne! my point it that they will be expecting Him. Now about the word APOSTASIA in 2 thessalonians verse 3, The first 7 english translations rendered the word DEPARTURE! It is my contention that satan himself doesnt want believers to know that the bride can be called home at any moment. Satan doesnt want you to be ready when the Father tells the Son to go get your bride, In rev 12 verse 4, it says the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. I have wondered much about this verse. I have asked myself why the dragon would stand before the woman and even think for a moment that he could devour her child as soon as it was born. Well I dont know for sure but when the harpazo takes place there will be those who are ready and those who are not. The ones who are ready will be taken, it is mt thought that who satan is waiting for are those who didnt make the rapture. A separation will be made, and those professing christians who didnt really know the Lord will be thrown into great tribulation. I have much much more to say on this subject. please comment, and may the Lord prepare us all to meet Him in the clouds! Shalom!

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Shalom calledoutones,

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Hi, Welcome to Worthy!

You will find that most of us here (including me) believe in the pre-trib rapture.    I never thought that if there was not a pre-trib rapture that they would be working in the field in darkness.   

 

I also cannot wait for the day that the Lord calls us home.  

 

God Bless!!!

 

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5 hours ago, calledoutones said:

I have always believed in a pre-trib rapture. I think that Jesus spoke of it in mathew 25:10. Jesus said also to pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things coming on this world and to stand before the Son of man. Also it clearly says in mathew 24 that two will be in the field, one taken and the other left, two will be grinding at the mill and one taken and the other left. My question is this, are they grinding in complete darkness? Are two working in the field without the mark of the beast? If there is no rapture before the tribulation, and we know that after the tribulation the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light, the stars of heaven will be falling, but wait these two are grinding at the mill in complete darkness. weird! and two are in the field obviously working it, and one is taken! weird! Does he have the mark? because no one can buy or sell except he has the mark, I doubt if any at that time will be able to own land or work without it. Plus How is our Lord coming as a thief at the end of the tribulation? It says the will hide themselves in the rocks and say fall on us, hide us from the face of Him who sits upon the throne! my point it that they will be expecting Him. Now about the word APOSTASIA in 2 thessalonians verse 3, The first 7 english translations rendered the word DEPARTURE! It is my contention that satan himself doesnt want believers to know that the bride can be called home at any moment. Satan doesnt want you to be ready when the Father tells the Son to go get your bride, In rev 12 verse 4, it says the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. I have wondered much about this verse. I have asked myself why the dragon would stand before the woman and even think for a moment that he could devour her child as soon as it was born. Well I dont know for sure but when the harpazo takes place there will be those who are ready and those who are not. The ones who are ready will be taken, it is mt thought that who satan is waiting for are those who didnt make the rapture. A separation will be made, and those professing christians who didnt really know the Lord will be thrown into great tribulation. I have much much more to say on this subject. please comment, and may the Lord prepare us all to meet Him in the clouds! Shalom!

Hi calledoutones

I used to believe in the pre trib rapture. I'd be glad to discuss the things you wrote. Everyone I have seen bringing up the word "apostasia" repeats the same "first English translation(s) said departure..." It is not a departure of a rapture. There is only one other place in scripture that uses "apostasia" -"forsake". It is better co compare the scriptures with scriptures.

Counted worthy to escape..what? Something you aren't in! No, you must be IN it to escape it. You are substituting a different meaning of the word -avoid instead of escape.

Matt.25:10 isn't a rapture subject. It is a story (parable) that teaches the need for being wise and being able to last in the long run and not running out of what it takes. The groom comes later than the group thinks- at the darkest time. After He comes, its too late. And He states that NOBODY knows the day and hour!

These in the field,or grinding or in bed are things that tell us of the times of day. An O.T. prophet wrote that it will be ONE DAY so these are activities that would be simultaneous happening around the world in differing time zones.

The complete darkness won't happen until near the very END. By then the power grid failure described in Revelation will make it so that even those with the mark won't be buying and selling either.

Jesus tells us in Rev. 16-on the brink of Armageddon that He is coming as a thief. This will be with shock and surprise, like there would be if you were asleep and someone was kicking the door in. See Rev. 6 where the sky is ripped away and they see Him and are terrified!

 

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Posted (edited)

Here is something to think about, the word apostasia is a noun, and as I mentioned before it was translated as "departure" in the first 7 english translations. The verb for the word "apostasia" is strongs number g868 "aphistemi", aphistemi is used in acts 12 verse 10, and the Angel "departed" from him. my point is this that strongs defines aphistemi to remove, or actively instigate to revolt, to desist or desert, draw or fall away, the angel "departed" from him, he didnt instigate a revolt or fall away! departed is a verb in the english language, and departure is a noun in the english language, and if you look at the context and literary structure of of 2 thessalonians chapter 2 you find that paul in 2:6-8 repeats the same two events mentioned in 2:3, quoting thomas ice in his study of "The rapture in 2 thessalonians 2:3, He says; Both events are stated twice in the passage: first, "the departure" (rapture) and "the revelation of the man of sin" (verse 3), and second, the restrainer (holy spirit) "is taken out of the way" (rapture) and "the lawless one will  be revealed" (verses 7-8). If "the departure" is some form of revolt (my word) then the parallelism is broken. Also I want to point out that if we read 2 thess 2 in context we find that the thessalonians were going through tribulations as mentioned in 2 thess 1:4, so paul writes to the not to be soon shaken in mind, or troubled in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us that the day of christ had come! 2 thess 2:2, they thought that they had missed the rapture because of tribulation, and paul comforts them by telling them not to worry about it because the departure will come "first". makes perfect sense to me. comment please! shalom

Edited by calledoutones
mispelled a word

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It is just apostasy.

(1) a falling away from key and true doctrines of the Bible into heretical teachings that claim to be “the real” Christian doctrine.

(2) a complete renunciation of the Christian faith, which results in a full abandonment of Christ.

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It really doesn't make a bit of sense, when you lay it out in a complete thought.  Start by the context Paul lays out.

 

II Thessalonians 2  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

Now paraphrase it in modern English with your rendering of the verse.

 

Now brothers, concerning the coming of Jesus and our being gathered to Him.  Don't be shaken or disturbed that the day of the Lord has already come.  That day will not come, unless the gathering comes first and the A/C is revealed.

 

See the problem?  The gathering will happen before the gathering?  

The other nonsensical part of this is the attempt to change what apostasia means.  If someone speaks of apostasy, or say an apostate church, do you distort the meaning to believe that this apostate church has been raptured?

Paul connects the rapture to His coming in the first verse, it is the same thing Jesus told us Himself.

God bless

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STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία

ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας,  (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

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