GRAFTED IN - Romans 11:17-18

[Neighbor]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Christ is the ONLY foundation who is Holy, who nourishes and who supports us all.

 

And my Lord Jesus the Christ, Messiah, studied, quoted, and practiced, that Bible which He read. He loved the feasts of Israel. When He spoke He taught only from The Bible now referenced as the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the very foundation of all that Jesus shared while manifested as man in order to die for us and rise again  to then ascend, providing victory over death for all those given Him by His Father. 

I do not build upon Christ. Jesus is not a foundation. He is the creator of all that is created. He is told of from the beginning of, plus throughout the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the necessary foundation for the New Testament, all of which is one Bible.

My creator is not simply an add on to my life.  He is my commander, I serve Him. I serve Him by God the Holy Spirit's command to do so.  My God is a mighty warrior. My creator loved the Bible that He read. It is all he spoke of  that is recorded in the New Testament.

 

[Neighbor]

Wow, so many differing views and declarations of what truth is. How very interesting.

[Justin Adams]

..and 'all scripture' does not refer to the canon because it was not formed then. It probably referred to the Tanakh and other writings notable in the Qumran collection. All kinds of texts that the early church threw away... Even the well respected Augustine has been found to be quite wrong on some theological basis.

Hmm. Time to think and study texts again and refer to peer review scholarship. Those are the ones that spend WEEKS trying to find what space a certain missing word would fit in and what context would be acceptable. These guys agonize over scriptures and ancient writings.. they spend their lives doing this for us.

Like 'armageddon' 'harmageddon', har means mountain, the m-g-d does not mean megiddo. So it is the mountain of the Lord, Jerusalem - the Edenic Throne. The mount of assembly. The cosmic mountain of God.  Language study is very involved. Said the Nacash; "I will ascend... to the mountain of God". Zion no less; gog and magog in Rev 20 brings this into focus. The end battle for the Throne of the Most High God!

Edited October 8, 2019 by Justin Adams

[douge]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 1:52 PM, Neighbor said:

          Grafted in. 

Menorah,  Magen David,  Yeshua  - Romans 11:17-18 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.

 

From the fuller context within Romans 11 ;

Gentiles Grafted In

 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.  Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry  in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.  For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,  do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.  Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”  That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.  Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.  And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.  For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

 

Romans 9, 10 and 11 is about Israel.

In Romans 9:24-27 Is speaking of the believing remnant of Israel comprised of Jew and Gentile not the church, the body of Christ.

Romans 11 is speaking of this remnant as the election of grace.

Romans 11:13 is speaking to those Gentiles, still present, who are part of the remnant of Israel. Paul is not speaking to Gentiles in the church the body of Christ. These Gentiles believed the gospel of the kingdom and will enter into the earthly kingdom along with believing Israel.

The Gentiles were not to be wise in their own conceits and ignorant that God will keep his covenant with Israel and so all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-32).

　

　

Edited October 8, 2019 by douge

[Mal'ak]

2 hours ago, Tampered With said:

1. The nation of Israel is still a flesh an blood people called back to their promised land by G_d. They have an everlasting Covenant with G_d according to Biblical Scripture. G_d does not change His mind as man does or we could not have faith in our salvation because what if He changed His mind and voided that?

 

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.

Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

 

Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

 

I never said God would change his mind and break the covenant, I said if we break it then we are not entitled to anything.  The problem is that you do not understand what a covenant is, for lots of people they read the Word of God and just do not break things down.  A Covenant is a legal contract between two parties, each party has set terms to fulfill unless one party fails to fulfill it and breaks the contract, if one party breaks the contract the other party is not required by law to fulfill their side of the contract.

 

As said in Exodus the contract between flesh Israel was made "if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people", Israel then replied "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do."  IF YE WILL OBEY is what God said, and yes God's convent is forever, he never broke it as he explains in Isaiah 50 "which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves ".  God said himself that he did not break the covenant with Israel, their sins broke the legal contract between them and they put themselves away out of God's grace.

 

[Neighbor]

9 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Wow, so many differing views and declarations of what truth is. How very interesting.

Yep.

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Neighbor said:

And my Lord Jesus the Christ, Messiah, studied, quoted, and practiced, that Bible which He read. He loved the feasts of Israel. When He spoke He taught only from The Bible now referenced as the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the very foundation of all that Jesus shared while manifested as man in order to die for us and rise again  to then ascend, providing victory over death for all those given Him by His Father. 

I do not build upon Christ. Jesus is not a foundation. He is the creator of all that is created. He is told of from the beginning of, plus throughout the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the necessary foundation for the New Testament, all of which is one Bible.

My creator is not simply an add on to my life.  He is my commander, I serve Him. I serve Him by God the Holy Spirit's command to do so.  My God is a mighty warrior. My creator loved the Bible that He read. It is all he spoke of  that is recorded in the New Testament.

 

Hi Neighbor,

You may want to rethink your statement above, I made in bold.

`For no other FOUNDATION can anyone lay then that which is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST.` (1 Cor. 3: 11)

Jesus said - `I, Jesus.....I am the ROOT and the offspring of David.` (Rev. 22: 16)

 

regards, Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

The representation of the wild olive tree and the domestic olive tree is very interesting, and why the Lord used the olive tree as a symbol. Both the wild and domestic olive tree have unique qualities and adaptations found in no other tree. 

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Neighbor,

You may want to rethink your statement above, I made in bold.

`For no other FOUNDATION can anyone lay then that which is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST.` (1 Cor. 3: 11)

Jesus said - `I, Jesus.....I am the ROOT and the offspring of David.` (Rev. 22: 16)

 

regards, Marilyn.

Thanks, very helpful correction to consider.

Also: The chief "corner stone", and the stone that the builders rejected along with the living corner stones also being built up, a spiritual house of or for a holy priesthood.

Forces me to rethink for sure. I have, I think, always looked at Jesus as the  architect, builder and the living cornerstone. That which sets or is the  the set placement of the foundation key stone. The first of many to come I suppose of those living stones.  Now I will have to  re-think. Which is fun stuff to do. Get out the old fashion post-its, read pray think and read again. All good stuff.

Perhaps the thinking is a parallel, or perhaps not. The OT  being the foundation without which the new cannot stand, but I did forget or totally missed the idea of the foundation/cornerstone not changing. ..."The root and the offspring of David"....  ..."Alpha and Omega"... architect builder and structure, ... Living cornerstone and/or capstone which locks in the entirety  of the house/structure (Spiritual house); or maybe better that that capstone which locks in the living spiritual house from the top.

Excerpt from a presentation at  http://www.jesuswalk.com/names-jesus/08_head.htm

..."He is 'the stone you builders rejected, 
which has become the capstone.'" (Acts 4:11)

Paul compares the Church to the construction of a holy temple,

"Built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, 
with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone." (Ephesians 2:20)

In another passage on building the church, Paul says,

"No one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 3:11)

Jesus the Living Stone is part of the foundation as well. He is the one who called the apostles, taught them, and commissioned them to pass on his message to us. He is also the Redeemer who brought us salvation. Here he is referred to as the "chief cornerstone" (akrogoniaios), which means "lying at the extreme corner.[131] It is used of Christ in our passage and also in 1 Peter 2:6, a reference to Isaiah 28:16.

Peter uses the imagery of Jesus the Stone and the temple to teach the unity of the church by interweaving three out of the four messianic prophecies we have identified.

"4 As you come to him, the living Stone -- rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him -- 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

  'See, I lay a stone in Zion,
  a chosen and precious cornerstone, 
  and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, 

  'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, 8 and, 

  'A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.'

They stumble because they disobey the message -- which is also what they were destined for." (1 Peter 2:4-8)

"Capstone" (NIV) is literally "head of the corner" (NRSV, KJV). Though the ESV and NASB translate it "cornerstone," probably in this instance it refers to a keystone that locks a building together from above. "A stone that causes men to stumble" (NIV, NRSV), is also translated "stone of stumbling" (ESV, KJV), and "stumbling stone" (NKJV). "Rock that makes them fall" (NIV, NRSV), can also be "rock of offense" (KJV, ESV).

Now we come to a passage where Paul uses a form of a rabbinical argument to affirm that the pre-existent Christ travelled with the Israelites to meet their needs.[132]

"... They drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:4)

As we reflect on the titles of Jesus as Spiritual Rock, Stumbling Stone, Crushing Stone, and Cornerstone, we see different aspects of Jesus' role. As our Spiritual Rock he is our strength, our might, our sustaining fortress in the midst of conflict. As Stumbling Stone Jesus' divinity and absolute authority highlight the reasons people avoid real discipleship; they are too enamored with their own will to surrender to his will. As Crushing Stone, Jesus is the one who will come as conquering King to usher in the Kingdom of God -- and to destroy with violence all the worldly competitors to his supremacy. As Foundation he is the only one on which we can build a life that will endure. As Cornerstone or Capstone, he is the one who holds our lives together and crowns them with glory." ....