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What to make of "the rest of the Beasts" and "a season and a time."


iamlamad

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Just now, Marilyn C said:

Heresy iamlamad

That is kind of weak! WHAT is heresy? Specify.

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26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

That is kind of weak! WHAT is heresy? Specify.

That was from my phone as I was resting. I was shocked to see you say -When you finally figure out WHY Jesus was not qualified or found worthy to take the book, then perhaps you will understand the TIME when He was not found worthy.

Jesus has been and will always be WORTHY, WORTHY, WORTHY.

BTW The Lord was and is in the GODHEAD, that is why no man was found in the big search. And the GODHEAD is BEYOND all created realms.

Marilyn.

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29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

1. ...and God`s kingdom rule comes on earth.  I don't think at this time that Jesus has officially started His millennial kingdom.  He has just returned to earth and to the Battle of Armageddon. He is "IN CHARGE," I am sure of that!

Would't "OVER" be a better word than "through?" "Through" has the connotation that Israel is HELPING Him rule.

can you please tell me which nations have ruled the world for the past decades and continue to do so?  Sorry, but who has "ruled the world" over the past years has very little to do with bible prophecy which is centered on Jerusalem and Israel. It does not matter who.

Yes when the Lord returns He sets up His rulership - King David as vice regent in Israel and priests.

Of course it is important to know who is ruling over the world now. God`s word tells us in Dan. 2 that there will be a final Gentile World Rulership that He will judge. Do you think it will just `pop` up one day?

I am about to post a blog on `The Final Stages of the Global Government.` Would be interested to hear your comments. probably next week as I have a few last corrections.

 

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10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Immediately I disagree with you: I and many many others see 11:35 as still talking about Antiochus Epiphanes. It is not until verse 36 that I think is taking about our future. Just because things were "sealed" in his time did not prevent him from doing what he did, and did not prevent Daniel writing about him.

Did Daniel seal his entire book? I don't know.

MANY people today recognize 11:21 through 35 as speaking of Antiochus. I agree with them. I think we are close enough to the end that people SHOULD understand Daniel. 

I am well aware that many people believe Daniel 11:35 to be talking about Antichus Epiphanes in the 2nd century BC, but as I have pointed out with scriptures, which you seem to reject, the Lord clearly informs Daniel that the events he was shown in chapters 11 and 12 pertain to the end times, and not a 2nd century BC event. These events coincide with the time, times, and half a time descriptions in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14, thereby further supporting their occurring during the end times.

I provided numerous scriptures supporting my perspective while you provide me dogma that denies the numerous scriptures.

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10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I wonder how long you are going to be stuck on this.

DID God show John "things which must be hereafter" from Daniel's perspective? The answer is a RESOUNDING YES!  Therefore I don't know why you are struggling so much because God chose to put SOME verses (in comparison a very small about) that was about events in John's past. Let it go! It is truth and you are trying to disprove truth. It cannot be done.

Case in point: there was a time when even Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, WAS NOT QUALIFIED or WORTHY to take the book and open the seals. That is why John wrote NO MAN was found.  When you finally figure out WHY Jesus was not qualified or found worthy to take the book, then perhaps you will understand the TIME when He was not found worthy.

Jesus is the Word, was always the Word, and was the Word before the world came into being. The Word Jesus was there at the onset of creation. The Son of God, Jesus, the Word, has always been worthy and capable of opening the seals.

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37 minutes ago, luigi said:
11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I wonder how long you are going to be stuck on this.

DID God show John "things which must be hereafter" from Daniel's perspective? The answer is a RESOUNDING YES!  Therefore I don't know why you are struggling so much because God chose to put SOME verses (in comparison a very small about) that was about events in John's past. Let it go! It is truth and you are trying to disprove truth. It cannot be done.

Case in point: there was a time when even Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, WAS NOT QUALIFIED or WORTHY to take the book and open the seals. That is why John wrote NO MAN was found.  When you finally figure out WHY Jesus was not qualified or found worthy to take the book, then perhaps you will understand the TIME when He was not found worthy.

Jesus is the Word, was always the Word, and was the Word before the world came into being. The Word Jesus was there at the onset of creation. The Son of God, Jesus, the Word, has always been worthy and capable of opening the seals.

Luigi,

I do not see this as questioning the deity of Jesus in the least, the key here is that "No Man" on heaven or Earth, points to the Jesus as the Son of man, thus pointing to his humanity, That until he suffered on the cross as the lamb, no man was able to open the seals. He is the first fruits of the resurrection in that respect of his humanity, as the God-Man, which forecasts our bodily resurrection in the future to heaven. What is being said here is not denying Jesus Deity as the eternal God, But is showing his progress from being a pre-incarnated Christ to being the Son of Man, to being the resurrected Son of man. In other words he was and is and is to come fully God, but He was not a man, became a man and is now glorified and resurrected Son of Man. The Point Iamlamad is making is about Jesus' humanity, not his deity. Iamlamad's point is very valid, and is backed up by the following verse from revelation. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; (rev. 1:19) meaning that the visions he will see are past present and future things thus the preview to the time of the seals is a vision of past heavenly events. 

In Fact, once we understand that this is discussing the humanity of Christ Jesus, then we see why this was so important, as John had to deal with Gnosticism in the early church which denied the Humanity of Christ Jesus (See 1 John 4:1-6), not his deity. Most modern cults deny his deity, But back then, and even now gnostics deny his humanity. Jesus was both fully God, and fully Man, God incarnate. He was not just a theophany (God appearing as a man) but a human born of the flesh via the virgin birth. 

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1 hour ago, luigi said:

Jesus is the Word, was always the Word, and was the Word before the world came into being. The Word Jesus was there at the onset of creation. The Son of God, Jesus, the Word, has always been worthy and capable of opening the seals.

You are both mistaken and denying John when He wrote "no man was found worthy..."  OF COURSE He was - is - and always will be GOD, as in the 2nd person of the Godhood.

What you are missing: we can deduce, from what is written, that on the outside of the book was instruction as to WHO would be worthy to take the book and open the seals:

1. It had to be a MAN: for John write, "no man was found." In other words, God HIMSELF was not qualified. I guess you could say, since this document was undoubtedly created or drawn up on the court of heaven - a legal document from heaven -  that God Himself wrote on the book: "I CANNOT OPEN THIS BOOK."  Only a man could be worthy, but it must be a man who can conquer death under His own power.  Perhaps it was also written that this man must escape out of hell under His own power.

In any case, Jesus prevailed over day by raising from the dead, being the ONLY MAN EVER to escape out of Hades under His own power, and rise back to the surface of the earth.

It was therefore AFTER Jesus rose from the dead that He BECAME worthy. Meaning, while He was still in Hades, He was NOT worthy - which is why in that first search John could write, "no man was found worthy..."  Let me say it this way: Jesus before incarnation could not possibly be worthy to open the seals, because at that point He was GOD ONLY. He had to become a MAN because only a MAN could be found worthy. Once He became a man, He could not then have been found worthy, for it must be a man who could conquer death - so we know He had to DIE first. But after death He was STILL not worthy; He had to prevail OVER death. Then, and only then, was He found worthy.

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2 hours ago, luigi said:

I am well aware that many people believe Daniel 11:35 to be talking about Antichus Epiphanes in the 2nd century BC, but as I have pointed out with scriptures, which you seem to reject, the Lord clearly informs Daniel that the events he was shown in chapters 11 and 12 pertain to the end times, and not a 2nd century BC event. These events coincide with the time, times, and half a time descriptions in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14, thereby further supporting their occurring during the end times.

I provided numerous scriptures supporting my perspective while you provide me dogma that denies the numerous scriptures.

the Lord clearly informs Daniel that the events he was shown in chapters 11 and 12 pertain to the end times  Please, show us this scripture that bible students have missed for hundreds of years.

These events coincide with the time, times, and half a time descriptions in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14  A point to notice: chapter 8 of Daniel was of course future to him, but is now history to us: about Greece (Alexander the Great) attacking Persia and then the empire being divided up into four, and then late in the history of ONE of the four - being about Antiochus.  Many people try to find end times future to us in chapter 8, but it is simply NOT THERE. The "end" written of there is the end of Antiochus' terrible activities against the Jews.  Of course, many are willing to pull verses out of their context in chapter 8 of Persia and Greece  to make the verses say what their theory requires.

Then when Daniel gets to chapter 11, he starts in his near future and takes the readers through time, from then through the centuries to Antiochus and then on into the Beast in our future.

Nothing I have written denies any scripture. However, it seems I deny your theory of scripture. But it is not just me, in this area I agree with many of the commentators. The "time, times, and half of time" is limited to starting in 12:1: the terrible time of trouble.  This agrees with Jesus saying that the days of great tribulation would start AFTER the abomination event that would divide the week. Revelation is certainly in agreement.

dogma that denies the numerous scriptures.: I will be expecting a quote from me, and the scriptures that my quote denies.

I will be expecting you to show us the scripture which backs up your theory of chapters 11 & 12 being end times.

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13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Yes when the Lord returns He sets up His rulership - King David as vice regent in Israel and priests.

Of course it is important to know who is ruling over the world now. God`s word tells us in Dan. 2 that there will be a final Gentile World Rulership that He will judge. Do you think it will just `pop` up one day?

I am about to post a blog on `The Final Stages of the Global Government.` Would be interested to hear your comments. probably next week as I have a few last corrections.

I am guessing you are talking about the feet and toes of the image in chapter 2.  Time passes as we move from the head of this image down. We are now at the feet and toes of this image: and the ROCK will strike the feet.

We probably both agree that the legs of Iron point to Ancient Rome. Over time Rome was divided into East and West - hence the two legs. But before that, after the four generals took over Alexander's conquered lands, it was not long before there are only two left: the Seleucus dynasty and the Ptolemaic dynasty - hence the two thighs of Greece - which over time turned into the two legs of Rome. After around 285 AD Rome was divided into East and West - so two legs.

If we look back, Babylon conquered Assyria, then Med0-Persia conquered Babylon. Then Greece conquered Persia, and finally, Rome conquered Greece. But WHO conquered Rome? It was just hundreds of small battles over time and Rome just sort of faded away. Western Rome in 476 AD. Eastern Rome fell in 1453 AD to the Ottomans. The Ottoman Empire was defeated in World War 1.

However,  geography does not change, and in general, people don't change: they just keep having kids and generation after generation comes and goes. One thing that changes this norm is migrations. Shortly after Muhammad's death, a religious migration started, QUICKLY moving West from Arabia around the Mediterranean Sea, up through Spain and France, and into the rest or Europe. Later, raiding parties from Turkey would head north into what is now Ukraine, and as far as into Russia, murdering the men, and carrying the young and the woman away as slaves. Some have estimated several million people from this area were carried away and sold as slaves to people in the Middle East.

More recently, wars have caused great migrations of people: Muslims into Christian nations.  One thing we know, just as clay will not mix with iron, Islam will not mix with Christianity or any other religion.

We are now in the time of the feet and toes of the image. WHERE are these two feet? One could make an educated guess that one foot would cover what used to be EAstern Rome, and the other in Western Rome. 

Eastern Rome today is mostly made up of Muslim nations and people. Turkey has not been a Muslim nation, but it seems they are moving quickly to become one.

Western Rome today has been changed rapidly with millions of Muslim migrants into most of the European nations. Again, they don't "mix:" rather, they demand CHANGE. 

One thing we can determine without any doubt at all: although some of Great Britain was a part of the Roman Empire, North and South America NEVER WAS.  Therefore we can dismiss any part of the Americas in the end time bible scenario.

Now a question: WHY did God cause the Beasts of Daniel 7 to so closely resemble the nations or empires or kings from the image of Daniel 2? Almost all of the commentators comment on this resemblance. I am certainly not alone in thinking that God PURPOSELY made the beasts of Daniel 7 resemble closely the empires of the Daniel 2 image. I can only come up with one answer: God did this ON PURPOSE, because the same Empires of the Dan. 2 image are involved in the end time scenario.  Just as an example: the Leopard Beast was make to look like Alexander the Great and the awesome speed with which he conquered, and with the four heads to remind us of the four divisions of the Grecian Empire.

Then the 4th beast that was made to resemble the iron legs of Rome.  Without any doubt then, the modern nations of Iraq, Iran, the several nations that make up the western foot of the image, and the several other nations that make up the Eastern foot of the image - ALL THESE will be in the end time Biblical scenario.  Some of them will be the ten "kings" from which three get taken out, as the Beast emerges - to end up with seven nations and the Beast as the 8th king. Some will no doubt be the ten Kings that throw in with the Beast in the final hour.

Sorry, but I cannot see the US in any of this. I even doubt that England will be a part of it.

Edited by iamlamad
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13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

That was from my phone as I was resting. I was shocked to see you say -When you finally figure out WHY Jesus was not qualified or found worthy to take the book, then perhaps you will understand the TIME when He was not found worthy.

Jesus has been and will always be WORTHY, WORTHY, WORTHY.

BTW The Lord was and is in the GODHEAD, that is why no man was found in the big search. And the GODHEAD is BEYOND all created realms.

Marilyn.

Marilyn, where in the world have you been? Is this time for that proverbial turnip truck?

Jesus came to earth to become MAN! (though He was still very much a part of the godhead.)

John tells us in a covert way that ONLY A MAN could be qualified to take the book and open the seals.

Can you see it now? For all of "time" up to 2 BC or so, God was NOT man. He BECAME man by being born of a virgin.

John further covertly tells us that only a man who can CONQUER DEATH (of His own power) could qualify to take the book and open the seals.

Can you see it now? Jesus was NOT qualified as a preincarnate God. He was NOT qualified as the SON of God walking the earth. He was still not qualified after He died for our sins. No, He had to "prevail" over death first before He was qualified.

In other words, Jesus FINALLY was qualified to take the book and open the seals AFTER He rose from the dead.

BTW The Lord was and is in the GODHEAD, that is why no man was found in the big search  And the GODHEAD is BEYOND all created realms. No, you are miles from the truth. You amaze me! GOD took on human flesh - and became a man. People could TOUCH Him! (Imagine touching God!) "no man was found" simply because of TIME: Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead. But after that first search John watched ending in failure, the angels started another search, and over that time, Jesus rose from the dead - so THEN was found worthy.

 

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