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What to make of "the rest of the Beasts" and "a season and a time."


iamlamad

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11 hours ago, Sister said:

 

Hi iamlamad

Yes, this happens very late.  In Rev 17, they didn't have power yet.  It is just a vision showing the ones already mentioned in Rev 13, giving a bit more detail.  When they receive authority and power to rule "as kings" with the beast, the False Prophet/little horn/son of Perdition will show his face.  The 10 kings are there first, preparing the way, and they will continue to rule with the beast (with the fp/LH/SoP).  He has different names but he is the same one person, chosen for this job.

I see the 10 as ruling over the world, and not necessarily representing the nations of the world. They represent dominance, authority & blasphemy..(only those who know the truth will pick it).  I am not even sure we will know who they are exactly because they will stay in the shadows and control everything from behind the scenes.... giving out all the new laws for the fp/LH/Sop to enforce on the world.  The 10 kings are his man power.  They gain control of all the nations, and therefore control all the military to back up the laws.  Obey or else.  It will be one money system.  One law for all.  They also possess advance technologies that will will be used to pull off the great deception.  A lot of trickery. Expect a lot of laser light shows that will look real and believable.  Like fire coming from heaven.  War planes flying above, etc, and possibly his image sprayed in the skies.  His craft is technology.  So that man, is the other beast, an individual, and will be their spokesman, the great deceiver with all the solutions.   When all this happens, it kicks off the tribulation. Start counting then. Things will happen fast. It will start in Jerusalem when the kings of the north come to occupy.  Keep your eyes on Jerusalem.  It all starts there.  They will come from the North. I have been looking into this lately (from the scriptures) and it's possible they will be secretly stationed and come from the land of Hammath.  Riblah.  Directly north of Jerusalem.  The 10 kings are confederate with Syria.  They have wasted Syria, so they can move in and set up their headquarters there and plan their attack. Syria has allowed it because their leader is also serving the king of Babylon.   Everything is staged and carefully planned.  Everything is repeated.  Nothing new under the sun.

When all this happens, it kicks off the tribulation.   Again I must disagree: the "tribulation" is over or almost over when the spirits are sent out to call in the kings of the world: to send their armies to wipe Israel off the map. We see this happening at the 6th vial.  In other words, this is AFTER the 7 trumpets and AFTER the first 5 vials or bowls.

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52 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

When all this happens, it kicks off the tribulation.   Again I must disagree: the "tribulation" is over or almost over when the spirits are sent out to call in the kings of the world: to send their armies to wipe Israel off the map. We see this happening at the 6th vial.  In other words, this is AFTER the 7 trumpets and AFTER the first 5 vials or bowls.

iamlamad

The trumpets and the vials correlate.  There are only seven angels with the plagues, not 14.  The word of God can prove this;

 Revelation 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation Chapter 8 & 9 are revealing the angels with "the trumpets".  The 7th angel is not mentioned in chapter 9, but if you go to chapter 10, he's there.

It's finished!  That 7th angel with the trumpet is the last one. 

 

Now take a look at the 7th angel with the vial;

Revelation 16:17   And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

It's "finished" and "done" all at the same time.

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iamlamad

1 Corinthians 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There are 7 trumpets.  We didn't know that in 1 Corinthians, but we learned it in the book of Revelation (to reveal).  The last trump is the 7th.

 

The 7 golden vials contain odours which are prayers of the saints. 

Revelation 5:8   And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Their prayers are being collected - collected right up till the last saint that will be born.  The wrath of God is put in those vials and poured out on to the earth.  This is the vengeance of the Lord on their behalf and it starts with the first trump.  It finishes with the last trump which is the Coming, and the world is judged in one hour.  It will be swift.  The last plague is the worst and consists of an earthquake, hail stones weighing 40kg, fire and brimstone.  Instant death.

So the angel blows the trumpet, then pours out the vial.  The vials contain the 7 plagues and there are only 7 angels.

Edited by Sister
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3 hours ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

The trumpets and the vials correlate.  There are only seven angels with the plagues, not 14.  The word of God can prove this;

 Revelation 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation Chapter 8 & 9 are revealing the angels with "the trumpets".  The 7th angel is not mentioned in chapter 9, but if you go to chapter 10, he's there.

It's finished!  That 7th angel with the trumpet is the last one. 

 

Now take a look at the 7th angel with the vial;

Revelation 16:17   And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

It's "finished" and "done" all at the same time.

Let's see if I can made any sense out of what you have written. if we are reading a mystery novel, yes, the last page "correlates" with the previous pages, but the events on the last page come AFTER the events leading up to the end of the story. The book would read kind of silly if someone cut and pasted the last page into the middle of the book!

Do you not understand what the "mystery" is at the 7th trumpet that is finished?  Try this: go back and read from 11:14 on a few verses and SEE WHAT HAPPENS at that 7th trumpet. It has nothing to do with what happens at the 7th vial.

Sorry, but one third destruction does not "correlate" with complete destruction. Sister, the truth is, when the 7th and final seal is opened, then the BOOK is opened, and if someone were to read the first page of the open book, it would read just like John's chapter 8: the trumpet judgments are what is written first inside the book.

Then, AFTER the trumpet judgements, the vials are poured out - but they are done late in the week - late in the second half of the week. The trumpet judgments make up the first half of the week.

Right: a FORECAST of the 7th trumpet is in chapter 10, but the sounding of the 7th trumpet is in chapter 11. Just so you know, the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven marking the exactly moment the man of sin enters the temple on earth and declares he is God.

It's finished...  Yes, at the 7th trumpet the MYSTERY of God is finished, the mystery of Satan being the God of this world, or prince. THAT mystery is finished. And of course the trumpet judgments are finished.

But at the 7th vial, the 70th week is finished: two separate endings of two different things. Here the week is finished and the bowls are finished. The trumpet judgments and vial judgments  are separated by the midpoint of the week.  you must pay closer attention to John's chronology.

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3 hours ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

1 Corinthians 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There are 7 trumpets.  We didn't know that in 1 Corinthians, but we learned it in the book of Revelation (to reveal).  The last trump is the 7th.

 

The 7 golden vials contain odours which are prayers of the saints. 

Revelation 5:8   And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Their prayers are being collected - collected right up till the last saint that will be born.  The wrath of God is put in those vials and poured out on to the earth.  This is the vengeance of the Lord on their behalf and it starts with the first trump.  It finishes with the last trump which is the Coming, and the world is judged in one hour.  It will be swift.  The last plague is the worst and consists of an earthquake, hail stones weighing 40kg, fire and brimstone.  Instant death.

So the angel blows the trumpet, then pours out the vial.  The vials contain the 7 plagues and there are only 7 angels.

Sister, you are trying to compare apples to feathers: there is no comparison.  Paul's "last trump" is indeed the last trump, but last of WHAT? It will be the final - last - trumpet of the church age. It will very likely be the last long trumpet blast at the feast of trumpets in the year of the rapture.  On the other hand, the series of trumpets in Revelation is a DIFFERENT series for DIFFERENT purposes. The trumpets in Revelation are judgments. Paul's last trumpet is a SIGNAL. TWO series of trumpets for TWO different purposes.

("Last trump" does not mean the last trumpet ever to sound on earth or in heaven ever again: it is understood to be the last OF A SERIES. God is not going to send angels to steal every trumpet so no one can ever sound one again.)

Again you are trying to compare apples to feathers: read:

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

 

Do you see a "seven" here? No? Why? Because John did not write a seven here. Did you not notice WHO had the vials?

24 elders had harps and vials.

Perhaps even The 4 beasts had harps and vials

That would make at least 24 vials here. THEY ARE NOT THE VIALS OR BOWLS OF WRATH FOUND IN CHAPTER 16! In chapter 16 we see 7 DIFFERENT bowls.  And these bowls are wrath DO NOT start at the first trump. The 7th and final trumpet marks the midpoint of the week, with 3.5 years to go. Teh bowls are poured out LATE in the second half of the week.

So the angel blows the trumpet, then pours out the vial.  How could anyone get so far off?  I hope you have a watch and/or a clock. They tell TIME. You are totally IGNORING time in John's book. Let me assist:

The 7th seal starts the 70th week: a 7 year long time of judgment.  The 7th seal is in chapter 8.

The 7th trumpet marks the midpoint of the week: the exact point between 1260 days of the first half and 1260 days of the last half.  The 7th trumpet will sound in chapter 11.

the 7th vial ENDS the week. It is in chapter 16.

Therefore from chapter 8 to chapter 16 TIME passes: 7 long years of TIME.

How do you know that the angels with trumpets are not  7 DIFFERENT angels than the angels with the bowls? John CERTAINLY does not tell us they are the same seven angels.  I do hope you do some more studying.

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On 10/9/2019 at 7:35 PM, iamlamad said:

He appears to be Elijah but it is the beast known as the false prophet.    Sorry, but you need to follow the chronology of John, instead of making up your own. The Beast from the sea is the FIRST beast to emerge and be known. The False Prophet beast shows up second.

He is made manifest as the Beast when he as the man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is God. He will then be possessed by Satan and become the Beast. This is before the false prophet shows up.

the Return to the Land has begun   It began in 1947 or so.

The false prophet Elijah has challenged every religion to come and prove their God is the true God.   MYTH.

All the religions of the world have assembled on the mount  with dignitaries of their particular religion.   MYTH

Next time you post, please post scripture that backs up what you are saying.  Most of your post is your imagination that cannot be backed up by scripture.

Malachi 4:5 (KJV) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding a lot of this conversation? My interpretation of the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" is the seven year tribulation. If that stands correct, then in addition to the flying angel proclaiming the Gospel of Christ, the 144,000 virgins, and the two witnesses; the Lord is also going to send the prophet Elijah, which I believe might be one of the two witnesses. Are you implying that a false Elijah is going to appear and masquerade as him before the actual prophet of God comes? I'm getting confused with your theology as I'm not comprehending it? 

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On 10/7/2019 at 6:59 PM, breathoflife said:

Yes all the End Times entities are thrown alive into the Lake of Fire, Satan, anti- Christ and false prophet

Daniel's prophecy is about the Four Beasts or 5 counting the Little Horn. 

If we agree that Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome were all Beasts and the end time Anti-Christ/Little Horn is also a Beast {and it has to be a separate Beast} then and only then does Dan. 7:11 fit. It says his BODY will be DESTROYED and he will be cast into HELL FIRE. Nations/Kingdoms/Beasts aren't killed and cast into hell. 

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

It goes like this.....the Anti-Christ/Little Horn is Killed and thrown into Hell when Jesus returns...........AS FOR THE OTHER Beasts {Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.....and even Egypt and Assyria as per Revelation and as per reality, but Daniel was only given the Beasts going forward, so as concerning the rest of the Beasts indeed refer to Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome}. 

It says as concerning the REST of the Beasts they LOSE there Dominion {POWER/to Beast means to Dominate the Mediterranean Sea Region}. YET their lives as Nations/City States etc. etc. yet live on {Babylon was where Alexander the Great lived when he died, so it lived on for a time and a season until like is Prophesied, it became a nomads land where no one dwelt, Persia is modern day Iran, Greece is still a Nation as is Rome/Italy. So the rest of the Beasts yet lived on for a TIME & a SEASON.

BUT.....The Last Beast is not like the other Nation/City/State Beasts, he is a MAN, he is cast into Hellfire after being killed, but hes never allowed to go to the Grave, thus Rev. 19:20 says hes cast Alive into hell......which means hes never allowed to go to sleep in the grave. Both Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 are therefore correct. Hes killed, just as Dan. 7:11 says and hes cast alive into hell, not bundled into the grave like all others and judged in 1000 years. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 3:09 AM, iamlamad said:

Let's see if I can made any sense out of what you have written. if we are reading a mystery novel, yes, the last page "correlates" with the previous pages, but the events on the last page come AFTER the events leading up to the end of the story. The book would read kind of silly if someone cut and pasted the last page into the middle of the book!

Do you not understand what the "mystery" is at the 7th trumpet that is finished?  Try this: go back and read from 11:14 on a few verses and SEE WHAT HAPPENS at that 7th trumpet. It has nothing to do with what happens at the 7th vial.

The 7th trump is the Coming.  This is the third woe.  Christ destroys the wicked in one hour.  There is no time for another 7 vials.

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Prophecy is a progressive revelation and it is often not fulfilled until just before it will be fulfilled.This is the case with Daniel's 70 Weeks of Years. Daniel's prophecy is divided into three parts with distinct signs starting and ending. The first part began when Cyrus gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. That was to take a 7weeks of years or 49 Years ending with Jerusalem rebuilt. The next time began with Jerusalem rebuilt and then was going to end when Messiah came and was crucified. this section of the prophecy was to take 62 Weeks of years or 434 years. The 49 years it took to build the city was 49 years and the time from the city rebuilt and the 434 years until Messiah was cutoff totaling 483 years leaving one section of the prophecy unfulfilled totaling one Week of Years or 7 years. This section would be the last part of the 70 Weeks of Years an when anti-Christ and the false prophet come that starts the last week of years for 7 years and ends with the Return of the Lord and the defeat of anti-Christ and the false prophet.

Daniel makes it clear that the entire 70 Weeks of Years has as its focus Daniel's city and Daniel's people.  Apostate Israel is removed from the prophecy and they continue trying to fit or should I say force Gentile countries, leaders or the RCC to make it fit their understanding. The Revelation is set up exactly the way you would expect it to be set up if apostate Israel was the focus of the Seven Year last week of Daniel's apostate Israel is at the forefront. Then in the later portion of Revelation when apostate Israel has been destroyed and the faithful remnant saved on The Day of the Lord here is what happens apostate Israel is destroyed, the Lord return to the Mount of Olives opens a valley from the faithful remnant to flee through the split in two mount of Olives. anti-Christ and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of  Fire. Satan is brought down in chains and put into the Bottomless pit for a Thousand years, the Millennial Reign. For a thousand years the Gentile nations are command to come to the Millennial Temple especially on the Feast of Tabernacles. At the end of the thousand years Satan is released where he deceives the Gentile nations into coming against the millennial temple. Satan is defeated and thrown into the Lake of Fire where anti-Christ and the false prophet have been for the last thousand years where they are defeated. The Gentile armies are defeated and become the feast for the birds of the air. This time when Satan and the Gentile armies are defeated is what is known as the Great and Awful Day of the Lord and this happens just before the GWTJ is set up. 

Now to your question. The Jewish people who are waiting for the Messiah having rejected Christ still look for the coming of the Prophet Elijah. The spirit of Elijah came preparing the way of the Lord when it was spiritually fulfilled by John the Baptist. Apostate Israel rejects that is waiting for the prophet Elijah to come and prepare the way. This false prophet will do the preparation for the Messiah and the apostate portion of Israel will believe he is Elijah, It is not an accident that we are told that lying signs and wonders will be done by this false Elijah. But there is something we are told that should grab our attention one sign and wonder is identified. Doesn't that just cry out to be understood? it did to me and that opened the door to seeing the Revelation in this manner. The one lying sign is identified as causing fire to come down from heaven. This is the same thing we are told Elijah did and if this being singled out is not everything but a neon sign flashing here is the key there isn't anything that is the key. Common sense makes you ask why is he bringing fire down from heaven this is where it really gets interesting. We are told anti-Christ is coming as an angel of fire, lightening, which when it happens will cause to believe the false Elijah is the Prophet Elijah, the anti-Christ coming as the Shekinah Glory will prove to the apostate Jews that this is the Messiah. Here is something amazing when you begin to think it can't get anymore amazing with this move the false Elijah has brought fire from heaven and until that fire comes no temple worship or service can take place. With the fire from heaven anti-Christ will claim the Throne of David. 

 

If anything is not clear let me know and I will try and answer that. Thanks

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12 hours ago, Sister said:

The 7th trump is the Coming.  This is the third woe.  Christ destroys the wicked in one hour.  There is no time for another 7 vials.

OK, Sister, SHOW US "coming" anywhere written in chapter 11. Compare the events of the 7th trumpet with Rev. 19 about His coming. You will find there is NOTHING to compare. Why is this? Because THERE IS NO COMING at the 7th trumpet. That is error and imagination.

Correct, it IS the 3rd woe.

Christ destroys the wicked in chapter 19! You have your chapters mixed up.

OF COURSE there is time! The 7th trumpet is at the MIDPOINT of the week. There is another 1260 days for the vials. Sister, you cannot rearrange the book!

Edited by iamlamad
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