What to make of "the rest of the Beasts" and "a season and a time."

[luigi]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

Again, Your missing the point, the seals are "hereafter", but the vision begins in the past. Let's say I was going to show you what is going to happen to president Trump in the future, I begin by telling you some details from the past, such as his rise to power, his family etc. Rev. 4/5 is background information on the seals and what the Book was that was sealed, the deed to the earth, and how Christ was deemed worthy to open the seals by his sacrifice on the cross, as the sinless lamb of God. What you say is partly why I disagree with Iamlamad as to the first seal being the Gospel going out to the nations, Because I see the seals as how we through the blood of that Lamb and the word of our testimony overcome Satan which results in his loss of the claim over the earth which he holds. 

At least you agree that the events under the seals are in the hereafter, even though I recognize the events under the seven seals to represent end time events well after the first century AD. Iamlamad, on the other hand has been proposing some of the events under the seven seals having occurred significantly prior to 95 AD. He has also proposed that the travailing woman in Revelation 12 represents Mary, which would make it being a hereafter invalid. If you want to see what has been discussed over the last two days on this topic between iamlamad and myself, I suggest you start around page 7 or 8 on this thread. If you do, you will see I back up my perspectives with numerous scriptures, while iamlamad for the most part offers unsubstantiated conjecture.

[luigi]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

As I have said OVER AND OVER, God DID show John things that came hereafter. God did just exactly what He said He was going to do. So what if God left out that He would begin the vision in John's past? MOST of what John saw is still future to us!

But I have said many times here, I see all the events shown John in chapters 4 through 22 as hereafter events. I do not see any of these events circa 27 AD as you have previously stated, nor do I recognize the travailing woman in chapter 12 as Mary which would represent a historical account and not a prophesy event. I will, however, agree that mention of the Lords qualification for opening of the seven seals does represent a recounting of the event qualifying His worthiness in opening the seven seals. 

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Marilyn, where in the world have you been? Is this time for that proverbial turnip truck?

 

This is just rude, and should not be in our discussion.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

In other words, Jesus FINALLY was qualified to take the book and open the seals AFTER He rose from the dead.

BTW The Lord was and is in the GODHEAD, that is why no man was found in the big search  And the GODHEAD is BEYOND all created realms. No, you are miles from the truth. You amaze me! GOD took on human flesh - and became a man. People could TOUCH Him! (Imagine touching God!) "no man was found" simply because of TIME: Jesus had NOT YET risen from the dead. But after that first search John watched ending in failure, the angels started another search, and over that time, Jesus rose from the dead - so THEN was found worthy.

 

`And I looked and behold, in the MIDST OF THE THRONE.......a Lamb as though it had been slain...` (Rev. 5: 6)

Jesus in the Godhead, (although obviously a pictorial representation).

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

One thing we can determine without any doubt at all: although some of Great Britain was a part of the Roman Empire, North and South America NEVER WAS.  Therefore we can dismiss any part of the Americas in the end time bible scenario.

Now a question: WHY did God cause the Beasts of Daniel 7 to so closely resemble the nations or empires or kings from the image of Daniel 2?

So the greatest power on the earth at this time (America) will not be in God`s word. Nonsense. And whose army is going to take it out? America has more military power than all the others together.

The beastly powers of Dan. 7 DO NOT resemble the empires of the past. That is just conjecture.

Now you say that the 4th beast is like the legs, when actually it is the 10 toe kingdom.

Then you include Iran in your grouping of Islam, when in fact Iran gets wiped out on the mountains of Israel. (Ez. 38: 5)

You have Islam right but you have not accounted for the rest of the world in the final Gentile World Government.

 

BTW I have written a blog a couple of years ago on `The Rise of Islam,` and I was taught this over 50 years ago before people of the RRE started to revise their theory. So I do know the history of the Middle East. I think you assume people are ignorant and that only you know the truth!

[wingnut-]

8 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

`And I looked and behold, in the MIDST OF THE THRONE.......a Lamb as though it had been slain...` (Rev. 5: 6)

Jesus in the Godhead, (although obviously a pictorial representation).

 

Marilyn, you may want to ask a certain individual how one of the 24 elders are there to speak if this takes place before Christ has risen.

 

Revelation 5: 5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

So the greatest power on the earth at this time (America) will not be in God`s word. Nonsense. And whose army is going to take it out? America has more military power than all the others together.

The beastly powers of Dan. 7 DO NOT resemble the empires of the past. That is just conjecture.

Now you say that the 4th beast is like the legs, when actually it is the 10 toe kingdom.

Then you include Iran in your grouping of Islam, when in fact Iran gets wiped out on the mountains of Israel. (Ez. 38: 5)

You have Islam right but you have not accounted for the rest of the world in the final Gentile World Government.

 

BTW I have written a blog a couple of years ago on `The Rise of Islam,` and I was taught this over 50 years ago before people of the RRE started to revise their theory. So I do know the history of the Middle East. I think you assume people are ignorant and that only you know the truth!

Where is China in Bible Prophecy?

The beastly powers of Dan. 7 DO NOT resemble the empires of the past  You are disagreeing with MOST of the bible commentators. You are also disagreeing with one of the greatest resourses ever on earth: GOOGLE:

" The Lion of Babylon is an ancient Babylonian symbol. The Lion of Babylon symbolically represented the King of Babylon "

" The Lion of Babylon is an ancient Babylonian symbol. "   Wikipedia

In other words, you are vastly outnumbered in your theory. In this case I will go with the commentators.  You can be wrong if you choose to be. 

Now you say that the 4th beast is like the legs  The 4th Beast had IRON teeth: I am convinced God included iron here to resemble the iron legs of the image.  Every beast in chapter 7 has something that resembles a part of the image. You can deny it all you want. You are greatly outnumbered here.  Here is what I wrote:  " the 4th beast that was made to resemble the iron legs of Rome."  As you know, both chapters include the word IRON. Only the 4th beast had TEETH of iron.

Look, you can imagine the 4th beast is Great Britain and the US, and you can be raptured with that belief - but you will not hold it for long once you are in heaven.

I semi-agree with you: Iran is certainly a part of the Eze. 38 Army, because she is part of the Beast's kingdom. This great hord will descend on Israel AT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.  Your verse then proves nothing. Armageddon ENDS man's fight with God: God wins. I am saying that Iran will be a part of the Beast's 7 nations. (Remember, there were ten and he will take out three?)

You have Islam right but you have not accounted for the rest of the world  Prophecy in general is not concerned with "the rest of the world." Often the rest of the world is included in the one word, "islands."  (Isa. 11:11) In other words, prophecy is mostly about ISRAEL.

I really don't assume people are ignorant. I assume they can learn.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, wingnut- said:

Marilyn, you may want to ask a certain individual how one of the 24 elders are there to speak if this takes place before Christ has risen.

Revelation 5: 5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

Hi Wingnut! You propose a very interesting problem. I can only guess at an answer, for John gives us no clues: these all may be Old Testament saints still in their spirit form. Or, perhaps God raised them sometime and did not tell us. I am convinced they are of the Adamic race, but that is about all we can know about them. Do you have an answer that fits the scriptures?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

`And I looked and behold, in the MIDST OF THE THRONE.......a Lamb as though it had been slain...` (Rev. 5: 6)

Jesus in the Godhead, (although obviously a pictorial representation).

Yes, after being gone from the throne room for around 32 years, He finally resumed His place in the throne room.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

This is just rude, and should not be in our discussion.

This expression is about someone from a farm, so far back in the hills they know nothing of city life. But as the truck carrying farm produce enters the city, a rider falls off. He is pretty much lost.

I had written:  "When you finally figure out WHY Jesus was not qualified or found worthy to take the book, then perhaps you will understand the TIME when He was not found worthy. "

Your answer was:  "Jesus has been and will always be WORTHY, WORTHY, WORTHY." 

Yes, OF COURSE Jesus is "worthy" but that was not our discussion. We were discussing worthy to take the book and open the seals.

Now I have a question for you: if "no man was found worthy "in heaven," "on earth" and "under the earth," but as you said "Jesus is worthy worthy worthy," then WHERE WAS JESUS at the time of this search?