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The parable of the Tares


iamlamad

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Revelation 14 verse 1, The Wheat {144,000 on Mt Zion} = Israel who REMAIN on earth until the end with the Tares or those Jesus places in the Winepress in verses 18-20. 

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

Rev. 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God {Wicked Tares}.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

The Wheat {Israel} remains ON EARTH with the Wicked Tares until the very end. The Wicked are BOUND UP {into the grave} where they will remain for 1000 years until they are Judged {BURNED UP}. 

The Rapture happens in verse 14, this is the Harvest chapter. The bible is about Israel, we are shown the End Time Harvest of Israel whom Jesus returns to save from the Beast, then he defeats the Wicked at Armageddon. But in the middle of the chapter, in a sort of soliloquy, we see Jesus ON A CLOUD thrusting in the sickle to reap the Harvest of the Church/his Bride. 

Rev. 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

The Wheat and the Tares happens here, in Rev. ch. 14, after the Rapture of the Church. 

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1 minute ago, wingnut- said:

 

Yes, it is shown in Revelation.

 

Revelation 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.

 

God bless

WOW...I just posted my response and you posted almost verbatim. At least where its found. 

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35 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Yes, it is shown in Revelation.

 

Revelation 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.

God bless

Will God really use a sickle to harvest people?

Is this the "hour" that all this happens, right after the midpoint of the week? Or is the prophetic of events (like Armageddon) that will happen later?

Did you notice that here it seems the righteous (verse 14 and 15) are harvested first, but in the parable the tares are gathered first? Therefore I don't see this as the parable of the tares playing out.

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Will God really use a sickle to harvest people?

 

I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not?  My response to it would simply be, are people really wheat or weeds? 

 

33 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Is this the "hour" that all this happens, right after the midpoint of the week? Or is the prophetic of events (like Armageddon) that will happen later?

 

It's at the end, the last part is in relation to Armageddon.

 

34 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Did you notice that here it seems the righteous (verse 14 and 15) are harvested first, but in the parable the tares are gathered first?

 

While the parable places the weeds first, this scenario does not distinguish between wheat and tares, it simply refers to the harvest of the earth.  I don't see a contradiction there at all,  the final part is referring to grape clusters, this is different from the harvest of the earth and references those who are working with the beast and have gathered outside the city.

God bless

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Just now, wingnut- said:

 

I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not?  My response to it would simply be, are people really wheat or weeds? 

 

 

It's at the end, the last part is in relation to Armageddon.

 

 

While the parable places the weeds first, this scenario does not distinguish between wheat and tares, it simply refers to the harvest of the earth.  I don't see a contradiction there at all,  the final part is referring to grape clusters, this is different from the harvest of the earth and references those who are working with the beast and have gathered outside the city.

God bless

It was a serious question. My point is, this passage is HIGHLY symbolic. I also think it is prophetic - meaning, these events take place later in the week, not in chapter 14. I see chapter 14 as a midpoint chapter. Good point in tares being people and vice versa!

Since I see chapter 14 as part of the midpoint intermission, I therefore see this passage of the harvest as prophetic: for example, the harvest of the wicked may we be at the battle of Armageddon in chapter 19.

i think we disagree slightly here.

This harvest:

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Seems to be far different from the wine-press harvest that comes with His wrath.  I like your idea that this harvest is for those who choose to fight Him at Armageddon - rebellious against God to the death.

It is not so much a contradiction; it is just order.

"Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them..."

if this passage in 14 was indeed the parable of the tares playing out, I would expect the same order. "Order" seems to bug me when it is off.

I guess you have problems with the 6th seal and the 1/3rd being the parable of the tares. It comes first. Many are killed. But there is no mention of WHO is killed.

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8 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Same thing Roy, The gathering is the vindication of the Saints and the Judgment of the tares. The Wilderness is the time of separation. If you read Revelation 14, you will see the harvests there. This is also the last time the endurance of the Saints is mentioned. 

Vindicate me, O L ORD ,
for I have walked in my integrity,
and I have trusted in the L ORD without wavering. (Psalm 26:1, ESV)

Shalom, dhchristian.

Okay, let me try this question: WHEN do you see the 1,000 years taking place?

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1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, dhchristian.

Okay, let me try this question: WHEN do you see the 1,000 years taking place?

Without getting too detailed, After the Final week for Israel.

I personally see the church age running into the final week by 3.5 years Give or take. This is the Time of the Gentiles as well. Jesus comes in the clouds midway through the final week and redeems the faithful and saints of the church, the apostates become the part of the Whore of Babylon. Jesus returns with 10,000 of his saints as the rider on the White Horse at the end of the Final week, thus beginning the Millennial reign of Christ. Rev. 10, and the Little scroll is the pronouncement of the Judgment of the church, which is mid week give or take. Remember Israel is yet to be restored Spiritually but the saints of the church are removed. (This is the wheat and the Tares). I Am not good at explaining it, but it really is quite simple. Because when Jesus kills the Beast when he comes in the clouds...And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2. Thess. 2:8) 

The Whole second half of the week is judgments being carried out via Wrath, Which begins with the House of God (1 Peter 4:17), and then for those who are perishing. Israel will drink of this cup of God's Wrath but will be spared. (Isa 51:17ff)

 

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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It was a serious question. My point is, this passage is HIGHLY symbolic.

 

I agree, the entire book is highly symbolic.  This particular imagery is very much driven home to us in the four gospels.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I also think it is prophetic - meaning, these events take place later in the week, not in chapter 14.

 

I believe the word you are looking for is chronology or perhaps chronological, after all, revelation is prophetic.  You know where I stand on that already, it's ok you are not ready to actually type it yet, but glad to see you finally noticed.  :) 

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

for example, the harvest of the wicked may we be at the battle of Armageddon in chapter 19.

 

I agree with you, and I do believe that is what is being referenced in chapter 14:17-20.

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

i think we disagree slightly here.

This harvest:

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Seems to be far different from the wine-press harvest that comes with His wrath.  I like your idea that this harvest is for those who choose to fight Him at Armageddon - rebellious against God to the death.

 

Maybe the problem is what state we view the tares in at the point they are gathered?  In other words, do you believe they are alive or dead?  Keep in mind how this process works.  In the days a sickle was used, the sickle is swung over the field, and it is all chopped down.  Then someone comes along and gathers it up, it would be at this point that the weeds would be bundled together and the wheat would be bundled together.  I guess the point I was trying to make is, this passage does not address the issue or order in which they are gathered.  That is what I meant when I said it doesn't go against the parable stating the weeds or tares are gathered first.

 

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I guess you have problems with the 6th seal and the 1/3rd being the parable of the tares. It comes first. Many are killed. But there is no mention of WHO is killed.

 

I think it is a little early to be the harvest.  Jesus tells us specifically, the harvest is the end of the age.

 

Matthew 13:36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

Everything you see here is depicted in chapter 14:14-16 with the exception of them being gathered and thrown into the lake of fire.  I think that becomes clearer in the following verses.  We know, the anti christ and the false prophet are put into the lake of fire first based on chapter 19.  It says the weeds are gathered and burned at the end of the age, that occurs later, after all the dead are gathered.  The sea has to give up its dead, Hades has to give up its dead, etc.  There is a separation of time from the time they die to when the great white throne judgement takes place.

God bless

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2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Without getting too detailed, After the Final week for Israel.

I personally see the church age running into the final week by 3.5 years Give or take. This is the Time of the Gentiles as well. Jesus comes in the clouds midway through the final week and redeems the faithful and saints of the church, the apostates become the part of the Whore of Babylon. Jesus returns with 10,000 of his saints as the rider on the White Horse at the end of the Final week, thus beginning the Millennial reign of Christ. Rev. 10, and the Little scroll is the pronouncement of the Judgment of the church, which is mid week give or take. Remember Israel is yet to be restored Spiritually but the saints of the church are removed. (This is the wheat and the Tares). I Am not good at explaining it, but it really is quite simple. Because when Jesus kills the Beast when he comes in the clouds...And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2. Thess. 2:8) 

The Whole second half of the week is judgments being carried out via Wrath, Which begins with the House of God (1 Peter 4:17), and then for those who are perishing. Israel will drink of this cup of God's Wrath but will be spared. (Isa 51:17ff)

 

Shalom, dhchristian.

Thank you for your candor, but you've mistaken the 3.5 years as part of the Times of the Gentiles (Goyim). The first 3.5 years (the "ministry" of the Messiah during His First Advent) was an OFFER OF THE KINGDOM to Israel. The elders of the tribe of Yhudah ("Judah") rejected that offer, and the Messiah left them "desolate." The second half, following the 2,000-year Tribulation period, will also be an offer of the Kingdom to Israel, and this time, they shall accept that offer.

In the First Advent, Yeshua` came as haMashiyach ben Yosef (the Messiah son of Joseph), the Suffering and Dying Messiah (the Lamb of God). When He comes in the Second Advent, Yeshua` will come as haMashiyach ben Daviyd (the Messiah son of David), the Conquering and Reigning Messiah (the Lion of the tribe of Yhudah).

There's also a little thing called "heaven" that's a MISNOMER. The REAL word in the Greek, ouranos, refers to the "sky," the "atmosphere" of this planet! There is NO "rapture to heaven" because there is no "heaven!" We shall be raptured into the "heaven" - into the "sky" - to be transported to the Messiah who has gone on before us to begin the battle against the enemies of Israel!

Furthermore, there's no difference between the "church" and the house of Israel. Therefore, "the saints of the church" cannot be removed! Yeshua` just gets back to earth, and He LEAVES AGAIN?! No, that makes no sense! He's here to reign over the house of Israel!!! That's the purpose for which He's the "Messiah," the "Christ!" He is the ONE who is "Anointed" by God to be the King of Israel:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (Greek: Ieesous, the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew Yeeshuwa`) 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. ..."

And, that's the TRUE "gospel" that was proclaimed EARLY in the Lord's offer of the Kingdom:

Matthew 2:1-2 (KJV)

1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2 Saying,

"Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship (bend the knee to) him."

Matthew 4:23 (KJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching (heralding) the gospel (good news) of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

His ability to heal was God's validation of this message and endorsement for His Son.

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (heralding) the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within your grasp): repent ye, and believe the gospel."

The Jews already KNEW this "gospel," this "good news!" They read it at least once EVERY YEAR!

Isaiah 52:7 (KJV)

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings (gospel), that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings (gospel) of good, that publisheth salvation (rescue); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Also, remember what Yeshua` said about His Second Coming:

Luke 19:11-15ff (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,
'Occupy till I come.'

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,
'We will not have this man to reign over us!' 

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. ..."

So, His Kingdom doesn't begin until He returns! We also find ...

Matthew 25:31 (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

He is NOT currently reigning, not on earth (even in His churches) and certainly not in "heaven!"

Revelation 14 is NOT about "the Wheat and the Tares" parable. That is reserved for Yeshua`s description!

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7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

He is NOT currently reigning, not on earth (even in His churches) and certainly not in "heaven!"

Revelation 14 is NOT about "the Wheat and the Tares" parable. That is reserved for Yeshua`s description!

Please take no offense in this, But the Problem with your view is that complicates the simplicity of the Word of God. The Parable of the wheat and the tares is a simple agricultural analogy. The Apostles were not theologians they were fishermen, and tax collectors, and men who worked with their hands. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: (1 Cor. 1;26) The reason for this is plain in the verses that follow this That no flesh should glory in his presence. (1 cor 1:29)

 Jesus Clearly and simply explains the parable in verses 37-43 of Matthew 13.... He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

We who receive his Word are the seed, we are planted in this world. This analogy is elaborated on by the Apostle Paul. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grainBut God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. ( 1 Cor 15;35-38)

The Kernel of seed must die before it can produce life, If it does not die it just rots. The seed of the Wicked one is cast along with the good seed, and they grow up together in the field (the World), and lest they uproot the wheat they are allowed to remain together. The Key that ties this Parable of Jesus to Rev. 14 is who it is that does the harvesting. The Angels. "the reapers are the angels". For wheat to be harvested, it must first be cut, and then gathered. On the trail that I walk on there was a wheat field this summer, that was "white" and ripe. One day I walked there the wheat was cut and lying in the field, (air drying produces the best wheat) then 3 days later another tractor came and gathered the wheat. The harvest is always a two step process, of cutting and gathering. Rev. 14 is the cutting, the rapture is the Gathering, But the Tares amongst the wheat, the false converts are also in that field and must be burned.

Because the wheat grows taller than the tares that are around it, and only the fruit is at the top of the stalk once that field was cut, only the weeds remained in the field and the stubble of the wheat plants themselves. The farmer then killed the weeds with herbicides, and plowed the field. They used to use fire to burn the fields....  

The church age is not the tribulation, The church age is the time for the field to grow. I Have heard many say this of the church age and it is incorrect, according to this parable. The Tribulum is a tool used to separate the wheat from the chaff, by beating, this is a separate analogy at work here. This is why the church must enter the tribulation in my opinion, and is the purpose of the "wilderness of tribulation". Again, all of these are simple agricultural analogies used that the common person of the day could understand. In the analogy of wheat and chaff, chaff is like the sinful flesh that conceals the kernels of wheat in us, The tribulation separates us from that sinful flesh.

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, he is reigning in heaven sitting on his throne in heaven.... quite frankly I do not even recognize what you have written here as biblical. Stephen saw Jesus in heaven upon his throne. He is the King of kings and Lord of lords. Yes, Satan is the god of this world (2 cor. 4:4), But his power is limited by the omnipotence of almighty God. The Kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ at the end of the age, at the last trump. (Rev. 11:15)

There is a Spiritual Kingdom and an earthly Kingdom, the Spiritual is already won by Christ on the cross, and we become members of that Spiritual Kingdom, the earthly kingdom, on the other hand, is to come which is the millennial reign of Christ. "Thy kingdom come, they will be done On earth as it is in heaven" is what he taught us to pray. His Kingdom IS in heaven, His Kingdom is to come on earth. Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36) And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:29-30)     

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