The parable of the Tares

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I would guess, since you don't believe in a place called heaven, where God lives, that He will not allow you to see it. After all, what we get from heaven comes through faith. If you wish to remain here on earth, I think God will grant what you are believing for.

Shabbat shalom, iamlamad.

Oho! No worries here. See, I DO believe in the New Jerusalem (also called or at least containing the Paradise [Park of Trees] in which is the Tree of Life) and the New Earth; I just don't believe in "heaven" that curiously is given the SAME DESCRIPTIONS as are written about the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21-22! It's the re-created NEW heaven - the NEW sky - the NEW atmosphere - that will exist around the re-created New Earth. I think you will be surprised when, in the Rapture, you take a "right turn, Clyde" and head for the Middle East for the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's reign, when He "cleans house" in the rest of the earth for His Father's Kingdom! We're not told to anticipate "going to heaven"; we're told to anticipate the RESURRECTION!

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What did Paul write?

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven ( ouranos ).

Then Paul continued:

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

In other words, your argument fails: "Ouranos" is used for the first heaven (where the birds fly), the second heaven (Space - above our atmosphere), and the third heaven (where God dwells).

Don't be silly. The word "up" only exists in certain English translations of 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. It's NOT in the original Greek language! Here's the Greek:

Pros Korinthious B 12:1-4 (BibleHub.com)

1 Kauchasthai dei; ou sumferon men. Eleusomai de eis optasias kai apokalupseis Kuriou.
2 oida anthroopon en Christoo, pro etoon dekatessaroon - eite en soomati, ouk oida, eite ektos tou soomatos, ouk oida, ho Theos oiden - harpagenta ton toiouton heoos tritou ouranou. 3 Kai oida ton toiouton anthroopon - eite en soomati eite chooris tou soomatos, ouk oida, ho Theos oiden - 4 hoti heerpagee eis ton Paradeison, kai eekousen arreeta hreemata, ha ouk exon anthroopoo laleesai.

See, the word formed harpagenta (alpha-[rough breathing]-rho-pi-alpha-gamma-epsilon-nu-tau-alpha) in verse 2 and heerpagee (eta-[rough breathing]-rho-pi-alpha-gamma-eta) in verse 4 stem from the word listed in Strong's as ...

726 harpazoo (har-pad-zo). From a derivative of haireomai; to seize (in various applications) -- catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

It doesn't contain the Greek word for "up" (ana) anywhere within the word, or within the whole 4 verses, for that matter! The word means to SEIZE, to TAKE BY FORCE! So, let's look at the word that way in the English, and while we're at it, substitute "sky" for "ouranos":

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 (KJV)

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one seized/taken-by-force to the third sky. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was seized/taken-by-force into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Read it through carefully in light of the following that Peter said:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Now, all I've done to the KJV is add the quotation marks in verse 4 and highlighted the locations where it talks about the three "heavens and earth." What do THESE verses suggest as far as "three heavens" are concerned? Don't they suggest that we are talking about "three heavens" SEQUENTIALLY? Thus, the new heavens and the new earth, "wherein dwelleth righteousness," is talking about a FUTURE "sky!"

Now, where is "Paradise?" We're told in a couple of verses in Revelation:

To the angel ("messenger") of the church at Ephesus, Yeshua` said,

Revelation 2:7 (KJV)

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Then, later we're told where the tree of life is:

Revelation 22:1-2 (KJV)

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it (the New Jerusalem), and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Therefore, the tree of life which is "in the middle of the Paradise of God" is also "in the middle of the street of the New Jerusalem on both sides of the river of water of life."

"Paradise" is a transliteration of the Greek word "paradeisos," which in turn is a transliteration of the Hebrew word "pardeec":

G3857 paradeisos (par-ad'-i-sos). Of Oriental origin (compare pardeec); a park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness, "paradise") -- paradise. 

H6508 pardeec (par-dace'). Of foreign origin; a park -- forest, orchard.

Who are given glimpses into the future? Aren't they the "PROPHETS of God?" What Paul is describing in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 is a PROPHETIC VISION! He was SNATCHED AWAY to the FUTURE, not "taken up to heaven!" And, that also explains why he "heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Some things are "sealed" by God's Law - by God's Command - to prevent people from taking unfair advantage of that knowledge or otherwise changing the course of events!

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Why don't you think Jesus reigns over his body on earth -  the spiritual kingdom of God?

Because His Kingdom is not here, yet! Look, we are indeed His "slaves," as Paul put it, and we owe our allegiance to Him, and we can consider ourselves subjects for His Kingdom to come, BUT IT'S NOT HERE, YET, because HE'S NOT HERE, YET!

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

there's no difference between the "church" and the house of Israel.  Your imagination is off here. When Paul wrote of "the church" he was speaking of born again humans, either Jew or Greek. They are MOST CERTAINLY separated from "the house of Israel:" which is made up of humans NOT born again, even though descendants of Jacob.

Think in terms of Venn diagrams: If in the rectangle U (the Universe, the red including the green and the yellow portions), there are two circles, one labeled "Believers" and another one labeled "National Israel"), the two circles are NOT independent of each other. (That is, it is NOT true that they sit as separate circles that do not intersect in some way.) To show them as equal sized circles that have a typical intersection "wedge" where they interlap in the middle suggests that there are SOME elements (people) who belong to the Believers who do not belong to National Israel (the yellow portion), i.e., the "Believing Gentiles".

In the "Remnant," there are some elements (people) who belong to both National Israel and the Believers (the green within the "wedge"). And, one sees some elements (people) outside of the "wedge" that belong to National Israel but do NOT belong to the Believers. But, ALL THREE sections are the "Kingdom of God!" And, during the Millennium, the Green/Yellow Kingdom will grow until ALL of the red "Universal set" is absorbed as well!

Question: Are the "Remnant" part of the entity called the "church" or not? Do they participate in the prophecies for Israel or do they participate in the prophecies for the church? See, there are problems with this view.

 

BUT, there's something wrong with this scenario anyway, according to Romans 11:

Romans 11:11-32 (KJV)

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Can you see it? We are NOT a separate set - a separate circle called the "church!" We are ABSORBED into the Olive Tree as PART of God's Kingdom which first only contained the children of Israel!

And, look at ...

Ephesians 2:11-19 (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ (separate from the Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (two) one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you (Gentiles) which were afar off, and to them (children of Israel) that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the holy ones), and of the household of God;

So, whatever prophecies were aimed at the "household of God," the "Kingdom of God," the "Commonwealth of Israel," are also given to us who are believers, although once "Gentiles in the flesh!"

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

"the saints of the church" cannot be removed! Yeshua` just gets back to earth, and He LEAVES AGAIN?  What are you talking about? I don't even know!  He comes next FOR His church, then comes 7 plus years later WITH His church, and then STAYS for 1000 years.  Why would anyone imagine He would leave again?

What I'm talking about is YOUR statement just now: "He comes next FOR His church, then comes 7 plus years later WITH His church ... ." He comes "all the way here" from ... "heaven," to pick up His church, and then LEAVES and goes "all the way back" with His church only to come "all the way back" again with His church seven plus years later? That's excessive.

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

that's the TRUE "gospel" that was proclaimed EARLY in the Lord's offer of the Kingdom:  True: that was the "gospel of the Kingdom." (speaking of the physical kingdom when it finally gets here.) Paul's Gospel is different: we are to be judged by Paul's gospel, not the gospel of the Kingdom. The gospel of the Kingdom is for the descendants of Jacob. Paul's gospel was and is for anyone who can believe that through the death and resurrection of our Lord they can be born again.  What was the basis for the gospel of the Kingdom? That Jesus was the long awaited Messiah, who is coming back to set up an earthly kingdom that will last forever.

But, Paul's Gospel IS the Messiah's Gospel! He's not changing things! 

I'm going to call it the "Complete Gospel" that is being missed. I'm not talking about the "Full Gospel" where people add onto the Gospel AFTERWARD by talking about "baptism of the Spirit, miracles, healing, and speaking in tongues" as though there was some "second blessing"; I'm talking about the REST of the Gospel presented BEFORE the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Yeshua` the Messiah! Paul's Gospel simply ADDS the "Death, Burial, and Resurrection" to Yeshua`s proclamation of the Gospel of the Kingdom!

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I guess you missed this:

John 18:36

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus certainly did have a kingdom "now" in his days: but it was a SPIRITUAL kingdom in the hearts of believers.

I disagree with much of what you wrote here.

No, I didn't "miss" it. John 18:36 is FREQUENTLY misread! The word "world" is from the Greek word "kosmos," not "gee!" Yeshua` is NOT saying that His Kingdom is not of this EARTH; He is saying that His Kingdom is not of this WORLD-SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT!

So, no, Yeshua` did NOT have a "kingdom 'now' in His days." For Yeshua` to say "now is my kingdom not from hence (here)," does NOT mean that His Kingdom is now and from somewhere else! Your logic is flawed! Consider this: 

I can say, "It is not raining now," but that does NOT mean that it is raining somewhere else now! It does allow that it may rain here in the future, but for now, it is not raining outside here! That's all!

Yeshua` was absolutely NOT saying that His Kingdom was currently (for them) somewhere else; He was saying that His Kingdom would not be OF THE SAME CALIBER as the rest of the kingdoms currently were run!

[dhchristian]

35 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

"Resurrection" is nothing spiritual, it is PHYSICAL.

Yeah, sorry, my wording is not right as well. I misused the word resurrection, and made it confusing for you. When we die we are immediately resurrected, (Soul and Spirit) when the Event Rapture resurrection occurs, we receive our new heavenly Bodies. 

I see this event as a one time "resurrection".

[iamlamad]

55 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, iamlamad.

Oho! No worries here. See, I DO believe in the New Jerusalem (also called or at least containing the Paradise [Park of Trees] in which is the Tree of Life) and the New Earth; I just don't believe in "heaven" that curiously is given the SAME DESCRIPTIONS as are written about the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21-22! It's the re-created NEW heaven - the NEW sky - the NEW atmosphere - that will exist around the re-created New Earth. I think you will be surprised when, in the Rapture, you take a "right turn, Clyde" and head for the Middle East for the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's reign, when He "cleans house" in the rest of the earth for His Father's Kingdom! We're not told to anticipate "going to heaven"; we're told to anticipate the RESURRECTION!

Don't be silly. The word "up" only exists in certain English translations of 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. It's NOT in the original Greek language! Here's the Greek:

Pros Korinthious B 12:1-4 (BibleHub.com)

1 Kauchasthai dei; ou sumferon men. Eleusomai de eis optasias kai apokalupseis Kuriou.
2 oida anthroopon en Christoo, pro etoon dekatessaroon - eite en soomati, ouk oida, eite ektos tou soomatos, ouk oida, ho Theos oiden - harpagenta ton toiouton heoos tritou ouranou. 3 Kai oida ton toiouton anthroopon - eite en soomati eite chooris tou soomatos, ouk oida, ho Theos oiden - 4 hoti heerpagee eis ton Paradeison, kai eekousen arreeta hreemata, ha ouk exon anthroopoo laleesai.

See, the word formed harpagenta (alpha-[rough breathing]-rho-pi-alpha-gamma-epsilon-nu-tau-alpha) in verse 2 and heerpagee (eta-[rough breathing]-rho-pi-alpha-gamma-eta) in verse 4 stem from the word listed in Strong's as ...

726 harpazoo (har-pad-zo). From a derivative of haireomai; to seize (in various applications) -- catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

It doesn't contain the Greek word for "up" (ana) anywhere within the word, or within the whole 4 verses, for that matter! The word means to SEIZE, to TAKE BY FORCE! So, let's look at the word that way in the English, and while we're at it, substitute "sky" for "ouranos":

Can we use just a little common sense? If we wish to join the birds flying in the air, we would have to go UP no matter where on earth one lived. Birds flying are UP unless someone is on top of a mountain looking down. Therefore when the dead in Christ come out of their graves, the graves are "down" but the bodies will fly UP.

If you wish to call God's home where His throne is as New Jerusalem, I will not argue. The vast majority of people call it heaven - and for good reason: authors in the bible called it heaven.

Matthew 5:16  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:34  But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Matthew 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:48  Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:1  Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:9  After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Matthew 7:11  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Mark 11:25  And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:30  The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

Luke 10:20  Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven

Luke 11:2  And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Acts 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

1 Corinthians 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Hebrews 9:24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

1 Peter 3:22  Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Revelation 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 11:19  And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

If "heaven" is good enough for all these verses describing where God dwells, I don't mind using "heaven" myself as where God dwells.  I think you missed it.

By the way, no "right turns." we will be escorted right to the homes prepared in heaven.

Edited October 12, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Yeah, sorry, my wording is not right as well. I misused the word resurrection, and made it confusing for you. When we die we are immediately resurrected, (Soul and Spirit) when the Event Rapture resurrection occurs, we receive our new heavenly Bodies. 

I see this event as a one time "resurrection".

No, when we die we are NOT "resurrected;" for that word is speaking of the physical: we are TAKEN or ESCORTED into heaven while our body lies dead. Perhaps you need to refer back to the dictionaries. Find another word for our spirits (with the souls) being taken to heaven.

[iamlamad]

57 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

...

See, the word formed harpagenta (alpha-[rough breathing]-rho-pi-alpha-gamma-epsilon-nu-tau-alpha) in verse 2 and heerpagee (eta-[rough breathing]-rho-pi-alpha-gamma-eta) in verse 4 stem from the word listed in Strong's as ...

726 harpazoo (har-pad-zo). From a derivative of haireomai; to seize (in various applications) -- catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

It doesn't contain the Greek word for "up" (ana) anywhere within the word, or within the whole 4 verses, for that matter! The word means to SEIZE, to TAKE BY FORCE! So, let's look at the word that way in the English, and while we're at it, substitute "sky" for "ouranos":

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

As one stands on the earth, graves are DOWN. Common sense then tells us, if someone comes OUT of a grave, they are going to move in an UPward direction.

Next, does one look DOWN to see clouds? No, one looks UP. Where is "air?" Is air in the ground? No, soil is in the ground. Air is UP.  

Therefore the word UP as KJV uses it makes good sense. The clouds are UP.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

No, when we die we are NOT "resurrected;" for that word is speaking of the physical: we are TAKEN or ESCORTED into heaven while our body lies dead. Perhaps you need to refer back to the dictionaries. Find another word for our spirits (with the souls) being taken to heaven.

You are correct, resurrected is not the right word for that. I Do not know what the right word would be... carried away? Departed?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

..

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 (KJV)

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one seized/taken-by-force to the third sky. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was seized/taken-by-force into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Read it through carefully in light of the following that Peter said:

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

...

So...was Paul caught UP or was he caught DOWN? I say UP UP UP into the 3rd heaven where God lives.

Do you not understand that the city of New Jerusalem in Revelation is now on planet heaven, but when the time comes will MOVE to planet earth - a NEW planet? It is the same city! Now it is on planet heaven where God lives. I say "planet" because many people who have seen it said it was a planet, and looked much like earth as they approached it from a great distance.

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

You are correct, resurrected is not the right word for that. I Do not know what the right word would be... carried away? Departed?

I like "escorted."

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

...

Because His Kingdom is not here, yet! Look, we are indeed His "slaves," as Paul put it, and we owe our allegiance to Him, and we can consider ourselves subjects for His Kingdom to come, BUT IT'S NOT HERE, YET, because HE'S NOT HERE, YET!

Sorry, but He IS here: he dwells in the hearts of every believer!  It is His spiritual kingdom on earth.

 

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

I like "escorted."

I Like departed, because there is a separation involved, and the "dearly departed" as associated with death physically. Escorted seems too "Physical" and has no separation to it.... "Our spirit and soul is escorted to heaven" Our Spirit and soul has departed for heaven"…? I think the Biblical concept for the dead is "Sleep". Daniel was told And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)  OR "REST" But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. (Daniel12;3)

At any rate you understand me now, I think I will use "sleep".