The parable of the Tares

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Think Jesus disagrees with you...

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14:3)

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Where is Jesus? 

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Acts 7:55-56)

So Jesus is in heaven at the right Hand of God, and he wants those who have believed in him to be where He is, which is Heaven, Where God Dwells. How is this possible? We will receive heavenly Bodies.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. (1 Cor. 15:42-49)

So, My Point being if you want to view our resurrection as merely going up into the clouds, go right ahead, there are many that will agree with you including the Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead to Heaven. But I Know we will go UP to be with Him where He is, which is in the heaven that is the Place where God Dwells. Yes we will have a Pitstop along the way to rule and reign with him a thousand years, as a royal priesthood, But heaven is our home in glory. 

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2 Cor. 5;1)

 

Good Post, DH!

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Sorry, didn't miss the verse at all, but I think YOU may have missed what was actually SAID in this verse:

"Them ... which sleep" are IN THE GROUND! God wakes them up, and THEN He brings them with Yeshua`.

You know as well as I that it is we who trust God for our justification.

No, actually He went ABOVE the sky to where the New Jerusalem is being built. The rest I can agree with you.

Well, I wouldn't call it "sky," but yes. He went to His Father's house - His Father's "Bedouin tent" - the New Jerusalem, Yerushalayim haChadashah.

Well, He IS accomplishing this. We don't know that He's finished, yet, because He hasn't returned, yet! And, don't we have believers coming to the Messiah yet today? Are you telling me that He has already finished their homes ahead of schedule? That's AMAZING!

I guess you believe in Predestination, then. Right?

Also, one had better believe in "Once Saved Always Saved," then, or the Messiah has wasted His time preparing a "mansion" for a person who can "lose his salvation." Right?

Well, if it's up to me, then I'll say no. I don't believe it. Many are trying to make a name for themselves, and get TV exposure, and get some monetary kick-backs, as well as maybe a book deal. Others have had a traumatic NDE and have hallucinated the whole encounter. Yeshua` didn't say that we should take the word of this sort of people. Instead, we read:

1 John 4:1-3 (KJV)

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

So, I'll take my chances with the Scriptures ONLY, thanks.

No disagreement with you on this point (although I suspect we don't agree on WHEN this coming will occur).

Poor English, but I'll answer the way it was asked: He "am" in Jerusalem, specifically in the "upper room."

Nope. You don't have the correct understanding of the 70th Seven. The first half of the 70th Seven was the 3.5 years that He offered the Kingdom to Israel when He came the first time. The second half of the 70th Seven will be the first 3.5 years after the Messiah returns - His SECOND Coming - when He shall again offer the Kingdom to Israel. He's in the New Jerusalem NOW, between these two halves, in the period often called the Time of Jacob's Trouble, the Tribulation - a 2,000-year period in which we currently live.

I'll agree with this line.

Nope. We'll be watching it descend, just as John did.

"Them ... which sleep" are IN THE GROUND! God wakes them up, and THEN He brings them with Yeshua`   NO, I did not miss it, YOU are missing it! Jesus is coming DOWN (the heavens are UP) from the city of New Jerusalem (for your benefit) or HEAVEN (for my benefit!) to earth. He is bringing with Him the SPIRITS and SOULS of those who have died in Christ. They are going to get their body back again, but it is going to be a resurrection body. The body will fly up out of the graves and the Spirit that used to be in that body  will join again with the body  - and they will be complete once again.  In other words, when a saint dies, their SPIRITs with their souls are escorted to heaven, where they remain until the time of the rapture; Jesus them brings them DOWN to meet again with their body and become whole. (I thought every believer knew this!)

You know as well as I that it is we who trust God for our justification.  Yes, OF COURSE the mansions are prepared ONLY for those who will one day live in them.

No, actually He went ABOVE the sky to where the New Jerusalem is being built.  He went to (insert the Greek word here translated in many places as "heaven.")

Matthew 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother...

There are at least a dozen verses that tell us Jesus went to be at the Father's right hand - so He too went to "heaven."  If you wish to believe the Father's throne (or the Holy City) is floating on a cloud, that is OK with me (but you will be wrong). The Father is on a throne, and the throne is inside a Palace (from many who have been there and returned to tell), the Palace is in the Holy City, and the Holy City in on a planet (from many who have seen it from a distance.)

Are you telling me that He has already finished their homes ahead of schedule? That's AMAZING!  I am saying that several Saints who have gone to heaven and returned have testified that Jesus TOLD them that all construction is now finished. Why Amazing? We are at the VERY END of this age. I certainly believe God KNOWS everyone who will be born again. He probably knew before earth was created.

Yeshua` didn't say that we should take the word of this sort of people.  WHAT "sort of people?" If they are believers we should listen to their testimonies and check it out with the Word of God. It is very simple: if they confess that Jesus came from heaven, took on flesh, died, was raised from the dead - WHY NOT hear their testimony? Paul testified again and again of His PERSONAL experiences. Did the Brethren "test the spirits" with Paul? I think not. Did they "test the Spirits" when Peter told of His experience on the roof? I think not.  When a brother or sister (believers that actually bear fruit) gives a testimony of a supernatural event, the others should test it BY THE WORD OF GOD. I know of a man (dead now) that went down to hell three times (the last time only half way down), then was taken to heaven several times. Every testimony he has ever given lines up with the Word of God.

He "am" in Jerusalem, specifically in the "upper room."   No, that is not the intent of the Author there:

John 7:34  Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

John 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 17:24  Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

In each of these verses, the "where I am" is to be considered with the TIMING He is speaking about, not the timing while He said it!

In verse 34, He was speaking of a future time after He would die on the cross.

In the verse in question, verse 3 above, He is speaking of the time right after we are caught up. IF it is pretrib, (I am sure it will be pretrib - you are yet to find that out) then the church must be taken SOMEWHERE for Rev. 19 shows His coming after the week has finished. WHERE IS HE during that week? I say He is in the same place He WENT to prepare our mansions.

The first half of the 70th Seven was the 3.5 years that He offered the Kingdom to Israel when He came the first time.  This is a theory, but over the years NO ONE HAS EVER proven this by scripture. God included the timing of the second half of the week 7 times in scripture, in days, in months and in times. One would think then, if your theory is true, there should be a scripture somewhere in the gospels that it was indeed 3.5 years. Sorry, no such scripture exists.  People can and have GUESSED that His ministry was 3.5 years, but there is no proof.

Anyway, your theory is IMPOSSIBLE! My example of eating a half apple proves this. Daniel tells us SOME EVENT that will stop the sacrifices (Antiochus gave us an example) will divide the week. If there is only a half week at that time, and that half week is divided, you end up with 630 days, NOT 1260 days. You end up with 21 months, not 42 months. In other words, you MUST have a whole apple at the time of division to end up with two halves.

in the period often called the Time of Jacob's Trouble, the Tribulation   This is SO FAR from the normal Christian belief, I am amazed. Surely you know how Jacob was tricked and given the WRONG WOMAN! How long then did He promise to work for the woman he loved? You know it was 7 years! Therefore the time of "Jacob's trouble" will be 7 years.

However, I must congratulate you on this: FEW people know that John said he, himself, was in "the tribulation." I don't know Greek, but I can see in every Interlinear text that "the" is there in the Greek, but no one had nerve enough to translate it into English. I am referring to Rev. 1:9.

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in [THE] tribulation

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

You ARE when you question the grace of Yeshua` to another person - a brother or a sister - as though they were an unbeliever! We should even assume unbelievers as POTENTIAL brothers and sisters!

"The ground of the SKY?!" Don't you hear how RIDICULOUS that sounds?! It's just like saying, "Our bodies go in the ground and our souls go to heaven." That means "Our bodies go in the ground and our air-breathing creatures go to the sky." ???? No, we go THROUGH the sky, THROUGH the clouds, on our way to the Middle East to begin helping the Messiah clear His land of the anti-Israeli forces surrounding it and invading it.

Then, when that's clear, He will reign over His Kingdom with a rod of iron - a scepter of iron - being a very strict King to those who oppose His reign. For a thousand years, He will judge the earth and subdue His enemies until He reigns over the whole earth. Then, He will hand the Empire over to His Father.

The final judgment will be that at the Great White Throne, after which the sentence will be the Lake of Fire and Sulfur (or the Lake of Burning Sulfur).

It won't be until after all this that the earth will be renovated and called the "New Earth." It's atmosphere will also be renovated and called the "New Heaven (Sky)." Then, the New Jerusalem will descend out of the sky, landing upon the New Earth. It won't be until THEN that we will receive our rooms (our "mansions") in the New Jerusalem.

Nope. Don't need to. Miracles of healing are TEMPORARY. They increase one's lifespan a little, but eventually, decay and death will catch up to a person and he or she will die ... UNTIL the Lord Yeshua` the Messiah of God returns and the First Resurrection occurs along with the Transformation. God will create us from His memory of us. We get our breaths (spirits) back and we become air-breathers (souls) again. We will be living bodies once again. 

THEN, in the Transformation, we are changed at the cellular level! No longer will we see death or experience pain, and we shall live forever in the presence of our God and His Son, Yeshua`.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 21:1-8 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

5 And he that sat upon the throne said,

"Behold, I make all things new."

And he said unto me,

"Write: for these words are true and faithful."

6 And he said unto me,

"It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

You ARE when you question the grace of Yeshua` to another person - a brother or a sister - as though they were an unbeliever!   And yet you say we should not be listening to "THOSE KIND" of people.  Do I detect a little hypocrisy here? Anyway, I have never questioned your walk with God. I only question your theories.

"Our bodies go in the ground and our souls go to heaven." That means "Our bodies go in the ground and our air-breathing creatures go to the sky."  I cannot help it if you don't understand "soul" as defined in the New Testament is speaking of the Intellect, will, emotions, and affections. Our soul is what makes each believer distinct. We are a THREE part being, created in God's image, meaning, GOD is a three part being. We ARE a spirit (GOD IS A SPIRIT), we possess a soul (God also has a soul: He has  WILL - He has an amazing intellect!) and we live for now in a flesh body. God also has a body - NOW a human body!

I hope you don't believe in soul sleep - that we we die we know NOTHING until resurrection day. That theory is MYTH.

we go THROUGH the sky, THROUGH the clouds, on our way to the Middle East  You can go to the Middle East if you choose, but the Bride of Christ will go to heaven, NOT SPACE, heaven where God dwells, to the Holy City - to wait out the time of wrath on earth. Since you don't believe in this, I suspect you will be left behind. I hope not, but are you expecting Jesus RIGHT NOW? Or are you expecting THINGS to happen first, before His coming? He is coming ONLY for those expecting Him. (See the last verse in Hebrew 9.)

renovated   I must again disagree. God NEVER used that word! He said "no place was found for them" referring to the Old heaven and earth. In other words, THEY JUST DISAPPEAR.

Nope. Don't need to. Miracles of healing are TEMPORARY. you previous wrote:

"So, why should God endorse the "Gospel" preached today by authenticating it with miracles?"

My point was, GOD DOES endorse today's "gospel" where and when the true gospel is preached.

God will create us from His memory of us. We get our breaths (spirits) back and we become air-breathers (souls) again. We will be living bodies once again.   Sorry, my friend, but this is nothing but myth! Do you just not believe Paul: that when we become absent from this body (in death) we become present with the Lord? Did you just forget the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? The moment a believer dies, their spirit (with their soul) is escorted into heaven. When Jesus comes FROM heaven to the clouds for the rapture, HE BRINGS ALL THOSE SAINTS WHO HAVE PASSED WITH HIM; but they are in spirit form - no body.

There have been SO MANY believers who have died, gone to heaven, but then got prayed back to their body....but since you don't listen to or read any testimonies from "those kind of people" you remain ignorant of the truth here. You amaze me.

Let me try again: the truth is, no one really "dies" as in disappearing, or as in ceasing to think and BE: what really happens at death is the real PERSON just changes addresses: if a believer, they move to heaven where God is; if a heathen, they move to hell. One thing is CERTAIN: they never cease THINKING and BEING.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Are you saying then that John did not see it so did not write of this event in Revelation?

Hi iamlamad,

Oh of course I didn`t connect that, sorry. I did infer though that when Jesus returns to judge the rebellious and deliver Israel then He will set up His kingdom rule through Israel over the nations. This I see takes place in Rev. 20: 4 - 6.

Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, dhchristian.

On 10/14/2019 at 12:27 AM, dhchristian said:

I Think Jesus disagrees with you...

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14:3)

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Deja vu! I think I just answered these points. However, I will gladly go over them again with you, my brother. (Oh, and thanks for qualifying your answer with "I think...." That's an honest statement.)

When Yeshua` ("Jesus") said, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also," He was not talking about taking us ANYWHERE. He was talking about TOGETHERNESS! The concern was not so much where He was going as it was that He was going away AT ALL! His comfort wasn't to say "I'll come back and take you to heaven"; His comfort was to say "I'll come back and we'll NEVER be separated again!" The reader has to SUPPLY the additional information (FICTIONAL, btw) that "He was talking about taking them to heaven."

"iamlamad" asked, "Where 'am' Jesus at this point in time?" I responded by saying "Poor English, but I'll answer the way it was asked: He 'am' in Jerusalem, specifically in the 'upper room.'"

You've added John 17:24; so, I'll add this: Same answer because His answer lasts for several chapters.

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Where is Jesus? 

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)

Living here in Florida (and I used to live in the Orlando area), I've seen several rockets and space shuttles go up. It doesn't take long before the rockets go silent and all you can see is the speck of the vehicle IF the sun is reflecting off of it. However, it quickly goes out of sight.

This is what this passage is about. They are gazing up into the SKY! The words in all cases of the translation "heaven" are the Greek words "eis ton ouranon," which means "into the sky." Read it in that light:

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly into the sky as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into the sky? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into the sky, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into the sky. (Acts 1:9-11)

These guys were watching Yeshua` go up, up, up, ... until He went through a cloud, and they couldn't see Him any longer. They were still searching the sky, until the two men dressed in white clothes brought them back to earth: "(Ahem.) You men from the Galiyl, why are you still staring into the sky? This same Yeshua` who is taken up from you into the sky, shall return in the same way that you've seen him go into the sky."

Would you really expect them to be able to see into some place called "Heaven?!"

Quote

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Acts 7:55-56)

Stephen ("Tsfanyahu") was given the same kind of prophetic Spirit as were John and Paul. He was seeing the Messiah Yeshua` as He was about to return. Consider this: NO ONE ELSE was able to see what Stephen could see. However, when they HEARD what he claimed to see, they became crazed and violent against him!

Now, I've heard sermons that said that Yeshua` was standing to "welcome Stephen home," but the text doesn't say that at all! That's imagination and fabrication.

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So Jesus is in heaven at the right Hand of God, and he wants those who have believed in him to be where He is, which is Heaven, Where God Dwells.

Speaking of imagination and fabrication, where do you get that "He wants those who have believed in Him to be where He is [in] Heaven, where God dwells"? (Book, chapter, and verse, please.)

Quote

How is this possible? We will receive heavenly Bodies.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. (1 Cor. 15:42-49)

So, My Point being if you want to view our resurrection as merely going up into the clouds, go right ahead, there are many that will agree with you including the Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead to Heaven. But I Know we will go UP to be with Him where He is, which is in the heaven that is the Place where God Dwells. Yes we will have a Pitstop along the way to rule and reign with him a thousand years, as a royal priesthood, But heaven is our home in glory. 

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2 Cor. 5;1)

Whoa! That's NOT what "resurrection" means! First of all, I DO NOT view our resurrection as "merely going up into the clouds." Nor, is the "resurrection of the dead TO HEAVEN" at all!

The Resurrection is bringing our BODIES (the REAL us) back to life. PERIOD! Anything else is added by the text of the Scriptures that speak on the Resurrection. And, I find it appalling to find you using the Resurrection Chapter (1 Corinthians 15) to try to support some mythical, ethereal body made for the mythical place called "Heaven!" That's NOT what "spiritual" means!

If you're going to quote from 1 Corithians 15, then I would recommend that you do an IN-DEPTH study of the chapter IN THE GREEK! The chapter is FULL of contrasts and comparisons! And, these contrasts and comparisons give the only TRUE sense of the composition of our new bodies! They will be equipped for EARTH, particularly the NEW EARTH and its NEW SKY! A NEW ATMOSPHERE to complement the New Earth that will be surprisingly similar to the ORIGINAL Earth before the Flood in which the Garden of Eden was located.

As far as 2 Corinthians 5:1 is concerned, the Greek phrase is "en tois ouranois" and means "in the skies!"

Edited October 16, 2019 by Retrobyter

[Retrobyter]

On 10/14/2019 at 12:30 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

This parable (Matt. 13: 24 - 30) is explained by the Lord further on in that chapter, (Matt. 13: 36 - 43) We also see that Daniel has some revelation on that topic too. (Dan. 12: 3)

`Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.` (Matt. 13: 43)

`Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, ...` (Dan. 12: 3)

Also Matt. 24: 31 gives more detail of Matt: 13: 41.

`The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness.` (Matt. 13: 41)

`And He (Son of Man) will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together the elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.` (Matt. 24: 31)

Thus we see the timing is when the Lord returns to earth to bring judgment upon the rebellious and deliver Israel. Christ will then bring in His kingdom/rule through Israel over the nations of the earth, (for a thousand years), as promised by the Old Testament prophets.

regards, Marilyn

Shalom, Marilyn.

NOPE! You're seeing the TWO Resurrections as ONE! There's the one for those who belong to the Son at His return, but the SECOND Resurrection is at the END of the Millennium! How can His messengers "gather OUT of His Kingdom" before His Kingdom has begun?!

One cannot focus on Revelation and Matthew 13 without taking into consideration the other passages of the Bible!

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

("0th Resurrection") Christ the firstfruits;
(1st Resurrection) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2nd Resurrection) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.)

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Between verses 23 and 24 is the Millennium, and it is DURING the Millennium that He is "putting all enemies under his feet!" This is why it takes a thousand years! And at the END of the thousand years is when He destroys death! That corresponds to the Great White Throne Judgment AFTER the Millennium!

His Kingdom starts out small, like a grain of mustard seed - only the state of Israel - but He grows it throughout the Millennium until becomes a tree in which the birds of the air may nest - the whole world! He leavens the whole earth with His Kingdom's influence: At first, it's just a small amount of yeast within the bread dough, but by the end of the Millennium, it will permeate the whole world!

Yeshua` was saying that His Kingdom will allow for imposters (tares - look-alike weeds that mimic wheat) throughout the 1,000 years. Then at the END of this time, He removes the tares from His wheat and bundles them for burning (the Lake of Fire), while His wheat goes into His Father's Kingdom (Revelation 21 and 22, the New Earth and its New Sky)!

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

NOPE! You're seeing the TWO Resurrections as ONE! There's the one for those who belong to the Son at His return, but the SECOND Resurrection is at the END of the Millennium! How can His messengers "gather OUT of His Kingdom" before His Kingdom has begun?!

 

Hi Retro,

No I`m not seeing the 2 resurrections as one. The one the tares is talking about is when the Lord comes to set up His rule through Israel. The angels go forth and take out - one from the field, one from the bed, etc. (Matt. 24: 40 & 41)

Remember the loud voices say, "The Kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ..` (Rev. 11: 15)

So when the Lord returns to earth and delivers Israel, He is the King, He rules! Thus those who did not look after the brethren (Israel) in the trib, will be cast out. (Matt. 25:31 - 46)

Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

No I`m not seeing the 2 resurrections as one. The one the tares is talking about is when the Lord comes to set up His rule through Israel. The angels go forth and take out - one from the field, one from the bed, etc. (Matt. 24: 40 & 41)

Remember the loud voices say, "The Kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ..` (Rev. 11: 15)

So when the Lord returns to earth and delivers Israel, He is the King, He rules! Thus those who did not look after the brethren (Israel) in the trib, will be cast out. (Matt. 25:31 - 46)

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Sorry, but why would you quote from other sources for the parable in Matthew 13? The parable of our Lord DICTATES the timing! It's not at the end of "this age" in which you're thinking that the end of this age is marked by the Second Coming. HOWEVER, the end of this age is actually at the end of the Millennium! Our Messiah to be King, Yeshua`, GAVE us the timing in His sentence:

Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
...

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
38 The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (Greek aioonos = "age");
and the reapers are the angels. 

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (Greek aioonos = "age"). 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Compare that to ...

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 24 doesn't occur at the BEGINNING of the Millennium; it occurs at the END of the Millennium! The Millennium serves a PURPOSE! It is the time of great conflict in this world as Yeshua`, who has been named the rightful heir of the kingdoms of this world, CLAIMS these kingdoms as His own! Some will willingly become His subjects; others will resist to one degree or another! That's what Psalm 2 is all about!

Make a distinction between the Kingdom of the Son of Man and the Kingdom of His (their) Father. The tares are destroyed between the two and are removed from the Kingdom of the Son of Man and burned; but the wheat - the righteous - are placed in the Kingdom of their Father, as the Kingdom of the Son of Man becomes a PART of the Kingdom of their Father!

[dhchristian]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Deja vu! I think I just answered these points. However, I will gladly go over them again with you, my brother. (Oh, and thanks for qualifying your answer with "I think...." That's an honest statement.)

When Yeshua` ("Jesus") said, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also," He was not talking about taking us ANYWHERE. He was talking about TOGETHERNESS! The concern was not so much where He was going as it was that He was going away AT ALL! His comfort wasn't to say "I'll come back and take you to heaven"; His comfort was to say "I'll come back and we'll NEVER be separated again!" The reader has to SUPPLY the additional information (FICTIONAL, btw) that "He was talking about taking them to heaven."

"iamlamad" asked, "Where 'am' Jesus at this point in time?" I responded by saying "Poor English, but I'll answer the way it was asked: He 'am' in Jerusalem, specifically in the 'upper room.'"

You've added John 17:24; so, I'll add this: Same answer because His answer lasts for several chapters.

To those of us who are sojourners in this world, we KNOW this world is not our home, And We know the LORD is coming to get us to be with Him where he is that we may be with him for eternity. If You feel that Jesus is coming to whisk you away into the air just to transport you to Jerusalem, then you are missing the whole point of the resurrection. Might as well have some aliens in space ship be your savior then if you know what I mean?

Jesus was not saying that we will be with him in Jerusalem when he returns he is saying we will be with him wherever he goes, yes for a time that is Jerusalem a Pit stop along the way as I stated, but eternity is where God dwells, and Jesus is the LORD.

So I will ask you, Where are you "laying up your treasures?" I Know mine are being stored in heaven where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, Not in the sky or the clouds. You see, the Word Ouranos has multiple meanings, which must be gleaned from the context of the passage. In Matthew 6:20, the obvious meaning of heaven is the place where God dwells, not the clouds or even outer space, Or are you planning on sending your treasures on a rocket into space, If you know what I mean? For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matthew 6:21)

Do you at least see how ridiculous your application of Ouranos as the sky is in this passage, well we are saying the same for the other passages referred to here. We are not just going to meet him in the air, but we are going to live with Him in heaven, the abode of God. We KNOW this because the Spirit bears witness to this, Not to mention I am not sending my treasures up on a rocket ship to outer space, but rather to Heaven, which is my home....

 

 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Sorry, but why would you quote from other sources for the parable in Matthew 13?

Hi Retro,

Look back to your other post and you will see you quoted other scripture.

Now we should be using scripture to interpret scripture. God knows what He means. You seem to think you can interpret for God.

Marilyn.